5K2K at 120Hz with Mac Mini M4

[MxDaviD]

Hello,

Happy to report that my base M4 Mac Mini works exactly as my Mac Mini M2 Pro was working with the same cable and Dell U4025QW. 3840x1620 and full 5k2k 48-120HZ VRR or just 120HZ.

I am using 8K DisplayPort to USB C cable from Amazon, I think it is from Anker.

 

[maksakal]

Hello,

Happy to report that my base M4 Mac Mini works exactly as my Mac Mini M2 Pro was working with the same cable and Dell U4025QW. 3840x1620 and full 5k2k 48-120HZ VRR or just 120HZ.

I am using 8K DisplayPort to USB C cable from Amazon, I think it is from Anker.

Are you sure it's HiDPI? The text looks blurry in your screenshot. Mine can also go up to 5K2K, but it's not HiDPI. That's a bottleneck.

 

[MxDaviD]

Are you sure it's HiDPI? The text looks blurry in your screenshot. Mine can also go up to 5K2K, but it's not HiDPI. That's a bottleneck.

I am not sure. How could I check?

The text looks perfectly fine for me and I have quite good vision.

EDIT: Yes, I can see that screenshots look a lot worse than the actual picture.

Link to the picture, it looks way better.

Screenshot-2024-11-09-at-22-58-21 hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-2024-11-09-at-22-58-21 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

 

[maksakal]

I am not sure. How could I check?

The text looks perfectly fine for me and I have quite good vision.

EDIT: Yes, I can see that screenshots look a lot worse than the actual picture.

Link to the picture, it looks way better.

Screenshot-2024-11-09-at-22-58-21 hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-2024-11-09-at-22-58-21 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Edit: Yours looks like HiDPI on the last image.

You can install RDM or BetterDisplay. In the case of RDM, you should see a flash icon next to the HiDPI resolution.

brew install --cask usr-sse2-rdm

 

[EugW]

.

I am not sure. How could I check?

The text looks perfectly fine for me and I have quite good vision.

EDIT: Yes, I can see that screenshots look a lot worse than the actual picture.

Link to the picture, it looks way better.

Screenshot-2024-11-09-at-22-58-21 hosted at ImgBB

Image Screenshot-2024-11-09-at-22-58-21 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

Right click beside the resolution button and select show list

 

[MxDaviD]

.
Right click beside the resolution button and select show list

Here you go, if it helps

 

[SimcaOne]

The screenshot of MxDaviD has a resolution of 7680x3240, so looks to be definitely HiDPI of 3840x1620. Very nice. I guess many here are now interested in the exact cable you are using.

 

[EugW]

Here you go, if it helps

That’s great! You have HiDPI. Perfect. 😎

I’m a lot more comfortable with my M4 non-Pro Mac mini purchase now.

Also, I’m increasingly optimistic that Apple will release new displays next year.

 

[MxDaviD]

Great, yes like I said it works exactly like the M2 Pro.
This is the cable I have.

UGREEN USB C auf DisplayPort 1.4 Kabel 8K 60Hz 30Hz 4K 240Hz 144Hz HDR VRR Thunderbolt 4 3 DP1.4 Kabel kompatibel mit iPhone 16 MacBook Pro Air M2 Mac mini M4 iPad Pro Air 5 Surface Pro 8(2M)

8K Displayport Kabel: Dieses USB C auf Displayport Kabel unterstützt eine Auflösung von bis zu 8K@60Hz/30Hz, 4K@240Hz/144Hz/120Hz/60Hz/30Hz, 2K@240Hz/144Hz/120Hz/60Hz, 1080P@240Hz/120Hz/60Hz. Mit den Funktionen HDR, HDCP2.3 und eARC können Sie Videos auf Ihren Monitor streamen und realistischere ...

www.amazon.de

 

[waydabber]

The entry level M4 mini could go up to 3840px HiDPI - this is clear from the reported horizontal GPU limit (see under Display Information... in BetterDisplay) which is 3840px HiDPI/7680 LoDPI. I tested this with a native 8K display and all modes between 3072px and 3840px work fine. I also tried this with a 4K@120Hz display by adding a fake 8K@30Hz timing to the EDID - this triggers the HiDPI resolutions all the way up to 3840px horizontally appear in the mode list (however the scaled resolution base - native resolution - will also be 8K which the 4K obviously can't handle - sadly if I override the native resolution to be 3840x2160 again, the higher-than-3072px modes simply disappear from the mode list. even though the 8K mode is still available in the low level connection mode list and can indeed be triggered, so the Mac parsed it from the EDID all right). So all in all this seems to be a software limitation - if the native resolution is not 8K, the algorithm that populates the mode list simply uses the same logic as with all older entry level Apple Silicon Macs, limiting the framebuffer to be max 6K (3072px HiDPI) in width.

 

[mprcs]

Maybe dumb questions: Do we have a definitive answer on if the M4 Pro Mini will drive U4025QW @ 3840x1620 HiDPI, tested with an actual machine and not just judging from Apple's specs? And if so, at what refresh rate & connection type?

I'm about to pull the trigger to replace both my Intel Mini and my decade-old monitors, but wanted to make sure they'll just work.

(Also I can't believe I finally registered at the forums in order to ask a question after decades of lurking around 😅)

 

[Newgoblin49]

@MxDaviD Thank you so much for your response , we are all anxiously waiting for your test results. I am glad it worked. I am a lot more happier with my purchase now!

I've seen someone else on reddit mention that they got it to work with a similar cable you've mentioned.

Did you see any drop in performance ?

 

[Newgoblin49]

@maksakal you should go ahead and purchase the cable MxDavid mentioned. it should work for you too

You will have to cancel your HDMI 2.1 order though.

 

[Kiviccc]

@MxDaviD omg I just made the purchase on both Mac mini m4 and dell u4025qw. And reading through all the scaling issue related threads on here or Reddit… super glad that it works! Thanks!

I’m a long time windows user and now I am finally making the switch to all Apple ecosystem. But really want the high res displays plus high refresh rate. This dell monitor is just perfect for my need for the years to come.

 

[srk6]

I would suggest the following order to connect M4 mini to Dell U4025QW.

1. TB to TB cable and connect directly to Monitor TB port. Use less than 1m cable, and if more than 1 meter, use an active cable. It is best to get an Apple TB cable 1m or 1.8m.

2. Use the USB-C to DP adapter (not cable) that supports 8K and not just 4K 60 and then use an active (not passive) DP cable to connect the adapter to DP port on monitor.

 

[EugW]

Dammit. Why won't anyone sell a 5K 30" monitor? I'd run it at 2X scaling for 2560xXXXX. I don't like running that at the 27" size.

 

[betabeta]

FYI for those looking at the Dell U4025QW, I recently looked at one, it's super nice, especially the 120hz which I love, BUT it's 140PPI, not 218PPI like the Studio display or iMac. So I just couldn't do it, but I'm a special case because I have extremely good eyesight, I see pixels when most people don't, only the 218PPI Apple displays comfort my eyes since I read a lot of text and do a lot of magnifying..zooming and that razor sharp text is most important. Don't let that stop you, most people don't even see it or it just doesn't bother them, and honestly if I did gaming or less text based work then I would go for it. I'm also a glossy screen fan now and have issues going back to matte, again special case🤪 If you're special like me just be aware of this, it's super minor but to us tack sharp text freaks, it drives us nuts.

 

[betabeta]

@MxDaviD omg I just made the purchase on both Mac mini m4 and dell u4025qw. And reading through all the scaling issue related threads on here or Reddit… super glad that it works! Thanks!

I’m a long time windows user and now I am finally making the switch to all Apple ecosystem. But really want the high res displays plus high refresh rate. This dell monitor is just perfect for my need for the years to come.

If your coming from windows, yes the Dell will be absolutely perfect, just avoid looking at a Studio display as it could ruin you🤣

 

[EugW]

If your coming from windows, yes the Dell will be absolutely perfect, just avoid looking at a Studio display as it could ruin you🤣

It depends on seating distance.

4K 32” - 138 ppi is Retina at >25”
4K 27” - 163 ppi is Retina at >21”
4K 24” - 184 ppi is Retina at >19”
4K 20” - 220 ppi is Retina at >16”

IMO 184 ppi and up is excellent and 163 ppi is very good at standard seating distances.

Standard seating distance is defined by some ergonomists as >20”.

I use a 163” ppi screen which works well for me since my seating distance tends to be around 22-25”-ish. 138 ppi was not good though.

My holy grail screen would be 30” 16:10 5120x3200, which would be 201 ppi with a Retina seating distance of >17”. Because of default font sizing in macOS, I would prefer that over 5K 27”. And yes I used to have one, a 5K iMac which I’ve since passed down to my kid.

 

[maksakal]

@maksakal you should go ahead and purchase the cable MxDavid mentioned. it should work for you too

You will have to cancel your HDMI 2.1 order though.

Yup, it has already been shipped. I'll return it. I've also ordered DP to USB-c from CableMatters. I'll keep you posted once I receive it.

I would suggest the following order to connect M4 mini to Dell U4025QW.

1. TB to TB cable and connect directly to Monitor TB port. Use less than 1m cable, and if more than 1 meter, use an active cable. It is best to get an Apple TB cable 1m or 1.8m.

2. Use the USB-C to DP adapter (not cable) that supports 8K and not just 4K 60 and then use an active (not passive) DP cable to connect the adapter to DP port on monitor.

I'm wondering if anyone has an Apple Thunderbolt cable and can test it. It's a bit expensive, but if it works well, it might be worth getting, as it would eliminate the need for a separate cable to use the monitor’s USB downstream ports. I'm currently using a 1m USB-IF Certified Thunderbolt cable that supports up to 8K at 60Hz, but it's not providing the 3840x1620 HiDPI though I'm getting that resolution on my MacBook Pro.

 

[Newgoblin49]

Yup, it has already been shipped. I'll return it. I've also ordered DP to USB-c from CableMatters. I'll keep you posted once I receive it.

I really hope you got the Thunderbolt 4 to DP 1.4 Cable

 

[maksakal]

I really hope you got the Thunderbolt 4 to DP 1.4 Cable

Yes, I purchase this TB4 cable.

 

[MxDaviD]

@MxDaviD Thank you so much for your response , we are all anxiously waiting for your test results. I am glad it worked. I am a lot more happier with my purchase now!

I've seen someone else on reddit mention that they got it to work with a similar cable you've mentioned.

Did you see any drop in performance ?

I do not see any drop in performance, it works exactly the same as the M2 Pro, which worked great for me.

If I will have time today, I will test with the Dell TB4 - TB4 provided cable, the M2 Pro worked, so this one should too.

 

[Newgoblin49]

I do not see any drop in performance, it works exactly the same as the M2 Pro, which worked great for me.

If I will have time today, I will test with the Dell TB4 - TB4 provided cable, the M2 Pro worked, so this one should too.

Awesome! Let us know if you see any performance difference

 

[srk6]

@MxDaviD, @maksakal,

What stream info do you see when you check the display info on the monitor when you use the USB-C to DP adapter and the TB cable respectively? Do you both see 8.1 Gbps 4-Lane?

if the USB-C to DP adapter/cable works, then the direct TB to TB connection should work as well which may depend on the quality of the cable.