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64-bit chip? (merged)

Because apple makes a big deal out of specs...... think about it when the iphone 4 came out and it step up the ram to 512mb apple mentioned it and the same thing with the iphone 5 when it was stepped up to a gig of ram.... and to get good use out of a 64bit 4+ gigs of ram is where its at. Think about a 64bit computer they always have 4+ gigs and its possible to put that much ram on a phone aka the Note 3 has 3 gigs of ram but apple is going to wait to the iphone 6 like they do every iphone release now small updates then big ones
 
beautifulcoder said:
What gives? I hear from people this new 64-bit chip is a gimmick. That it will not boost performance unless you have 4GB of RAM and memory hungry applications which don't exist on iOS. On the other hand, bigger instruction sets will allow the kernel to do more with less but it all depends on how iOS 7 is engineered to take advantage of this from the ground up. Your thoughts?
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Don't forget that iOS is based in Mac OS X, so I would imagine the kernel would probably be programmed to take advantage of the larger instruction sets.

Will we see the benefit of it right now? Probably not, iOS currently still isn't a very demanding OS. However Apple likes to brag about the whole "Our phones still run the latest version of iOS!" Just like when Mac OS X switched to 64 bit only, this could be the same. Maybe a few generations down the road iOS will only run on 64 bit processors.

We will see i guess, you might not see benefits right now but Apple tends to think ahead for products and this could be a way of future proofing the iPhone 5S
 
64 bit has twice as wide system bus to get to the RAM. So this is about faster memory access.
 
It's all just garbage.

64bit isn't faster at all.

In fact, 64bit applications have MORE overhead, and have slight performance decrease over 32bit applications.
 
64-bit is not only to have access to more RAM. When a system is 64-bit it can work with more data...

For example, let's say that the iOS need to carry ten buckets to on side of a river to another... Until now, iOS only had one arm, so it can only carry one bucket at a time, on iPhone 5s Apple added a new arm, so now they can move the "buckets" twice as fast (more in some cases)...
 
grockk said:
64 bit has twice as wide system bus to get to the RAM. So this is about faster memory access.
Click to expand...

No. Memory speed only depends on memory bus, which can be same on both 32-bit and 64-bit

In fact, 64bit applications have MORE overhead, and have slight performance decrease over 32bit applications.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Memory pointers take twice as large space, so using more space in caches.
 
Ashin said:
It's all just garbage.

64bit isn't faster at all.

In fact, 64bit applications have MORE overhead, and have slight performance decrease over 32bit applications.
Click to expand...


Ok, but the A7 chip is faster. Twice as fast.

We all saw that Exponentially rising Graph.
 
People really need to stop with the overhead stuff, that is just a general assumption about a generic and simple 32-bit to 64-bit CPU without any changes.

64-bit A7 has twice the hardware registers, which actually makes it much faster and can be more efficient if the OS is optimized for it. Since Apple is reusing the same kernel as OS X, they already have several years worth of optimizations. Apple already said and confirmed apps will be faster and more efficient if built specifically for 64-bit.

The only issue is that apps need to watch for memory consumption, which is not the same thing as overhead. Storing 64-bit data can use up more of the memory and apps need to be careful not to use too much if Apple didn't bump the RAM in iPhone 5S.
 
MikhailT said:
People really need to stop with the overhead stuff, that is just a general assumption about a generic and simple 32-bit to 64-bit CPU without any changes.

64-bit A7 has twice the hardware registers, which actually makes it much faster and can be more efficient if the OS is optimized for it. Since Apple is reusing the same kernel as OS X, they already have several years worth of optimizations. Apple already said and confirmed apps will be faster and more efficient if built specifically for 64-bit.

The only issue is that apps need to watch for memory consumption, which is not the same thing as overhead. Storing 64-bit data can use up more of the memory and apps need to be careful not to use too much if Apple didn't bump the RAM in iPhone 5S.
Click to expand...

If the iPhone 5S has over 4gb of RAM 64bit will be of benefit.

The speed difference between 32bit and 64bit is negligible... but the speed is actually in FAVOUR of 32bit.

Tech sites already picking up on Apple's marketing fluff too -

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...-marketing-fluff-and-wont-improve-performance
 
Ashin said:
If the iPhone 5S has over 4gb of RAM 64bit will be of benefit.

The speed difference between 32bit and 64bit is negligible... but the speed is actually in FAVOUR of 32bit.

Tech sites already picking up on Apple's marketing fluff too -

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/1...-marketing-fluff-and-wont-improve-performance
Click to expand...

If we're talking about the marketing, then yes, it's all BS. That isn't what the OP is asking about. The actual chip itself is going to be much faster than the previous chip, that's a fact based on the fact that in every S generation that Apple've done, the CPU/GPU has improved hugely.

64-bit CPU isn't the only thing Apple've done, they increased the # of registers, speed it up and upgraded to their own custom ARM v8 with more instruction sets that can be used to accelerate several things like encryption. ARM v8 also has a simpler and optimized instruction sets compared to ARM v7, which reduces a lot of the common overhead that current ARM v7 has and is no longer needed in v8.
 
MikhailT said:
If we're talking about the marketing, then yes, it's all BS. That isn't what the OP is asking about. The actual chip itself is going to be much faster than the previous chip, that's a fact based on the fact that in every S generation that Apple've done, the CPU/GPU has improved hugely.

64-bit CPU isn't the only thing Apple've done, they increased the # of registers, speed it up and upgraded to their own custom ARM v8 with more instruction sets that can be used to accelerate several things like encryption. ARM v8 also has a simpler and optimized instruction sets compared to ARM v7, which reduces a lot of the common overhead that current ARM v7 has and is no longer needed in v8.
Click to expand...

It's still a cheap as hell marketing ploy.

No need for 64bit on a phone, at least not yet. Until phones need and require more than 4gb RAM, then we can have 64bit on a phone - until that day comes, 64bit phones are just pure fluff
 
Ashin said:
It's still a cheap as hell marketing ploy.

No need for 64bit on a phone, at least not yet. Until phones need and require more than 4gb RAM, then we can have 64bit on a phone - until that day comes, 64bit phones are just pure fluff
Click to expand...

Who needs more than 640kb of memory, right?

Apple's just taking advantage of the latest CPU technologies they can build and sell it. Marketing it as such is just smart business, nothing more than that.

64-bit ARM chips now means both Apple and developers can start optimizing for it now and not have to do anything for the days that 4GB of memory will come.

There's no need for 64-bit now, but why wait. What's the harm? Do it now, optimize it over the next year and be ready for when it is needed.
 
MikhailT said:
Who needs more than 640kb of memory, right?

Apple's just taking advantage of the latest CPU technologies they can build and sell it. Marketing it as such is just smart business, nothing more than that.

64-bit ARM chips now means both Apple and developers can start optimizing for it now and not have to do anything for the days that 4GB of memory will come.

There's no need for 64-bit now, but why wait. What's the harm? Do it now, optimize it over the next year and be ready for when it is needed.
Click to expand...

First off, stop talking down to me. Trying to be smart saying "who needs more than 640kb of memory" - I clearly stated NOT YET, maybe in the future, but certainly not now... and even more so considering the iPhone 5S almost 100% won't have more than 4gb of ram.

Second, 64bit isn't "new technology" by any stretch of the imagination.

Third, how can you "optimise" and "test" without the hardware in place? Unless the iPhone 5S has more than 4gb of RAM, there is no way to test anything with regards to the main benefit 64bit processing - which is increased memory mapping.

Honestly, you Apple crazies really need to screw your head brain back in.
 
Ashin said:
First off, stop talking down to me. Trying to be smart saying "who needs more than 640kb of memory" - I clearly stated NOT YET, maybe in the future, but certainly not now... and even more so considering the iPhone 5S almost 100% won't have more than 4gb of ram.

Second, 64bit isn't "new technology" by any stretch of the imagination.

Honestly, you Apple crazies really need to screw your head brain back in.
Click to expand...

Sorry if you feel offended, wasn't intended to point you out like that. I was talking in general here to point that that technologies have to move forward, even if we don't need it now.

In addition, this is not a straight 64-bit move. This is entirely new SoC architecture, with a large increase in registers and new instruction sets. It is a new technology, Apple's the first in the world to use ARMv8 set, which is a fact, not a marketing ploy.
 
Also this means that fat binaries will become more fat, armv7, armv7s and armv8 binaries in one app. It also will make iphone5s firmware a huge one, since it needs binaries of all 3 arches to be able to run old apps.
 
Let me try rephrasing what I'm trying to say.

The CPU's bitness has does not do anything in terms of making things faster. 64-bit CPU doesn't mean your apps is twice as fast. It just means it can read more than 4GB of memory and mapped data files, nothing more. Since iPhones doesn't use that much memory nor deal with those file sizes, it's pointless.

However, Apple's 64-bit A7 CPUs are much faster than the previous CPU is because of the brand new SoC that's based on ARMv8 which comes with the massive increase of hardware registers. ARM v8, which is a brand new ISA to kickstart the 64-bit ARM series of Chips.

----------
netkas said:
Also this means that fat binaries will become more fat, armv7, armv7s and armv8 binaries in one app. It also will make iphone5s firmware a huge one, since it needs binaries of all 3 arches to be able to run old apps.
Click to expand...

We don't know anything about fat binaries yet. Developers will have to upload fat binaries but the App Store can selectively download a specific file to the iOS devices, 64-bit only app to 64-bit iPhones and 32-bit only to 32-bit devices.

At least, I hope Apple does that since iPhones often have limited resources for them.
 
Let them update to the new arm cores. I think it's a good decision, like many said it's not only the bits that count. I've bet that it has more optimizations, instructions and more stuff we don't even know it's there.

As long 32 bit users have support, we can't complain.

About the fat binaries I doubt that they do separate installs, they won't do it on retina / non retina assets.
 
Last edited:
One thing I should mention, as of today, no 32-bit third party app will work with this new revolutionary device.

I do love how Apple leads the charge without a concern for who is trying to keep up. Unlike some other evil and messed up company, there is no bending over backwards with anti-diluvian "backwards compatibility". :apple:
 
beautifulcoder said:
One thing I should mention, as of today, no 32-bit third party app will work with this new revolutionary device.

I do love how Apple leads the charge without a concern for who is trying to keep up. Unlike some other evil and messed up company, there is no bending over backwards with anti-diluvian "backwards compatibility". :apple:
Click to expand...

One thing I should mention, you are wrong. :eek: :rolleyes: :)
 
beautifulcoder said:
One thing I should mention, as of today, no 32-bit third party app will work with this new revolutionary device.

I do love how Apple leads the charge without a concern for who is trying to keep up. Unlike some other evil and messed up company, there is no bending over backwards with anti-diluvian "backwards compatibility". :apple:
Click to expand...

dunce-cap.png
 
beautifulcoder said:
One thing I should mention, as of today, no 32-bit third party app will work with this new revolutionary device.

I do love how Apple leads the charge without a concern for who is trying to keep up. Unlike some other evil and messed up company, there is no bending over backwards with anti-diluvian "backwards compatibility". :apple:
Click to expand...

Wow, that's just sad. Instead of asking if iPhone 5S can run both 32-bit/64-bit apps, you went into this rant that's just full of wrong facts and with the closed minds that Apple is all about going evil on us.

Facts:

1. 64-bit CPU can run 32-bit apps
2. Apple never even once said it cannot run 32-bit apps
3. iOS 7 ran just fine on all the older iPhones with 32-bit, which logically confirms iOS 7 can run both in 32-bit and 64-bit modes
4. iOS 7 can be a pure 64-bit CPU and still run 32-bit apps in the app store, just like Mavericks is a pure 64-bit CPU and can run 32-bit apps
5. Apple is one of the most experienced companies on the planet that knows how to change architectures effortless as evidenced by PPC > Intel, Intel 32-bit > Intel 64-bit in the last few decades.
 
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