Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

New Mac Pro's Nehalem's "hyper Threading" Is A Major Issue With Pro Tools! Read This

C

Chocolate Baby

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 16, 2009
32
0
If you are like me, someone who would buy and utilize a Mac Pro to get optimal performance out of your Pro Tools Rig, check this thread out.

I just got off the line with the Head Support Specialist For Computer Compatibility Issues For Digi-Design/Pro Tools. Let me sidebar and say that I have been driving myself mad in debating over which Mac Pro To Get for Pro Tools. And I now have the answers.

It turns out that Support specialist stated that Pro Tools is having some real issues with the simultaneous/hyper threading for the nehalem chips. Due to the fact that it is now technically a virtual 16 cores. Now here is the for instance (Again this is straight from the source and not just my opinion) If you have One plug in on a track the nehalems perform fine, the second you stack plug in's the performance of the nehalem drops considerably and does not compare to the previous generation 08 mac pro.

He also stated that this update for this is not in the foreseeable future. Pro Tools 8, on the 08's is running fantastic. And despite what some opinionated people think when you Pro Tools benefits GREATLY from 8 cores, especially when you start stacking plug-ins (And who doesn't stack plug-ins! in '09)

So there it is. 08's till they get their #@$! straight. It may or may not be useful information to alll of you out there. But it was priceless to me so I thought I would share my results.

Now does anybody know why mac does not have any clearance surplus for the 08 Mac Pro's on the site?
 
I don't use Pro Tools. I'm an Ableton Live/Logic guy but this is crazy news, especially from Digidesign themselves. I wonder if any other audio apps suffer from this sort of behaviour.

Thanks for sharing the info regardless :)
 
Chocolate Baby said:
He also stated that this update for this is not in the foreseeable future. Pro Tools 8, on the 08's is running fantastic. And despite what some opinionated people think when you Pro Tools benefits GREATLY from 8 cores, especially when you start stacking plug-ins (And who doesn't stack plug-ins! in '09)
Click to expand...

I know several people who don't, I know amazing right? One producer I know still actually uses a Power PC G4.

/s

People who actually use hardware don't stack plug-ins.
 
More said:
I don't use Pro Tools. I'm an Ableton Live/Logic guy but this is crazy news, especially from Digidesign themselves. I wonder if any other audio apps suffer from this sort of behaviour.

Thanks for sharing the info regardless :)
Click to expand...

An Intelligent dude from my previous thread said that Logic is suffering from this too, and it will not be corrected till the move to 64 or update the OS, check my other thread for more on that.
 
nateDEEZY said:
I know several people who don't, I know amazing right? One producer I know still actually uses a Power PC G4.

/s

People who actually use hardware don't stack plug-ins.
Click to expand...

Well for all of us bums, who can't afford outboard gear this thread will be helpful. I correct myself. Mr. Trump
 
Chocolate Baby said:
An Intelligent dude from my previous thread said that Logic is suffering from this too, and it will not be corrected till the move to 64 or update the OS, check my other thread for more on that.
Click to expand...

Bloody ell! This is nuts. I'm SO glad I bought a 3.2GHz 7 weeks ago. The fallout from the 2009 mac pro just keeps getting worse. This is not good news and I feel sorry for the guinea pigs that are paying through the nose for this (erm) privilege. :(
 
More said:
Bloody ell! This is nuts. I'm SO glad I bought a 3.2GHz 7 weeks ago. The fallout from the 2009 mac pro just keeps getting worse. This is not good news and I feel sorry for the guinea pigs that are paying through the nose for this (erm) privilege. :(
Click to expand...

Welcome to the world of trolls....;)
 
More said:
Bloody ell! This is nuts. I'm SO glad I bought a 3.2GHz 7 weeks ago. The fallout from the 2009 mac pro just keeps getting worse. This is not good news and I feel sorry for the guinea pigs that are paying through the nose for this (erm) privilege. :(
Click to expand...

You get a new one because I am looking for an 08 but I have collected a alot of gift cards from returns and I have to buy from apple direct, Don't know what I am going to do. There is nothing on the apple site for clearance
 
Chocolate Baby said:
It turns out that Support specialist stated that Pro Tools is having some real issues with the simultaneous/hyper threading for the nehalem chips. Due to the fact that it is now technically a virtual 16 cores. Now here is the for instance (Again this is straight from the source and not just my opinion) If you have One plug in on a track the nehalems perform fine, the second you stack plug in's the performance of the nehalem drops considerably and does not compare to the previous generation 08 mac pro.
Click to expand...

Strange. Ok, we know the way hyperthreading works is that it basically splits a single core running at 100% into two threads, each being able to run at 60% of the maximum speed. What _should_ happen is that up to 8 instruments, the OS sends each thread to its own core, so you have eight cores at 100 percent. Now if you have a ninth instrument, without hyperthreading one of the eight cores would have to switch between two threads, so each one gets 50% of a CPU, minus switching overhead. With hyperthreading, one core would know run two threads, each at 60% speed, overall a win.

So I am wondering: What this support specialist told you, is that his private opinion about what would happen, or is that something that his company has found in actual testing?
 
Chocolate Baby said:
You get a new one because I am looking for an 08 but I have collected a alot of gift cards from returns and I have to buy from apple direct, Don't know what I am going to do. There is nothing on the apple site for clearance
Click to expand...

Yeah I got a brand new one back in January. I sold my G5 Quad in November 08 and couldn't wait indefinitely on the 2009 mac pro refresh so jumped in feet first with the 3.2GHz. Got it from my local apple store.
 
Chocolate Baby said:
You get a new one because I am looking for an 08 but I have collected a alot of gift cards from returns and I have to buy from apple direct, Don't know what I am going to do. There is nothing on the apple site for clearance
Click to expand...

That's where I'm at too...
Whatever the US list price is I can take 10% off of b/c of my corp. discount (ONLY at Apple) but all the number crunching I have done thus far suggest that I could get a 2.66 2009 for a 2.8 (or maybe 3.2) price and all of the posts here suggest music relies more on raw clock speed than RAM management so I'm starting to think about ditching the corp. discount and shop for a new/used/refurb 2.8 or 3.2 2008 model and then have to rebuild the whole thing b/c most of the "Stock" configs are horrible. (2 gig RAM, bad video card, 320gig Hard drive)...all of that would have to be gutted and replaced with stuff from OWC and even with that calculated in I'm pretty much dead even...the fallout will probably be the dealbreaker since price (for me) is about even.
 
gnasher729 said:
Strange. Ok, we know the way hyperthreading works is that it basically splits a single core running at 100% into two threads, each being able to run at 60% of the maximum speed. What _should_ happen is that up to 8 instruments, the OS sends each thread to its own core, so you have eight cores at 100 percent. Now if you have a ninth instrument, without hyperthreading one of the eight cores would have to switch between two threads, so each one gets 50% of a CPU, minus switching overhead. With hyperthreading, one core would know run two threads, each at 60% speed, overall a win.

So I am wondering: What this support specialist told you, is that his private opinion about what would happen, or is that something that his company has found in actual testing?
Click to expand...


I'm curious, where did you get this info about 60% maximum speed and such?
 
mingus51 said:
That's where I'm at too...
Whatever the US list price is I can take 10% off of b/c of my corp. discount (ONLY at Apple) but all the number crunching I have done thus far suggest that I could get a 2.66 2009 for a 2.8 (or maybe 3.2) price and all of the posts here suggest music relies more on raw clock speed than RAM management so I'm starting to think about ditching the corp. discount and shop for a new/used/refurb 2.8 or 3.2 2008 model and then have to rebuild the whole thing b/c most of the "Stock" configs are horrible. (2 gig RAM, bad video card, 320gig Hard drive)...all of that would have to be gutted and replaced with stuff from OWC and even with that calculated in I'm pretty much dead even...the fallout will probably be the dealbreaker since price (for me) is about even.
Click to expand...

Yeah all this new information really is ***** with me! I am pretty let down, I can't even go and buy a mac from apple at this moment that I am not in one way or another getting screwed, very disheartening
 
This sounds very much like a software issue...

It's not as if they didn't know what hardware were coming down the pipeline either.
 
tobyg said:
I'm curious, where did you get this info about 60% maximum speed and such?
Click to expand...

With the p4 it was advertised as about a 30% gain over 1 core. In ballpark of 65%.

Supposedly new version is better.

Intel must believe the extra complexity in ht is warranted rather than just increasing cores. You just have to be careful that the 2 sharing threads don't contest for the limiting resources.
 
I guess the people with the nehalem mac pros are going to have to wait until nehalem architecture is supported for pro tools in the future.
 
jjahshik32 said:
I guess the people with the nehalem mac pros are going to have to wait until nehalem architecture is supported for pro tools in the future.
Click to expand...

Once they do officially support the Nehalems, I imagine that Pro Tools will purr like a kitten.
 
Wild-Bill said:
Once they do officially support the Nehalems, I imagine that Pro Tools will purr like a kitten.
Click to expand...

Imagine when Pro Tools officially support the 16 virtual cores. Its name should be changed to magic tools.

Its always been like this, new hardware/architecture, you have to wait until software catches up. So basically if you REALLY REALLY think about it the Nehalem Mac Pros are a better buy since its future proof.

While the last years 8 core models already have everything utilized and maxed out from the software side, the nehalems are just the beginning. Especially with snow leopard around the corner, which I really think has been projected towards nehalem based machines and its architecture.
 
jjahshik32 said:
Imagine when Pro Tools officially support the 16 virtual cores. Its name should be changed to magic tools.

Its always been like this, new hardware/architecture, you have to wait until software catches up. So basically if you REALLY REALLY think about it the Nehalem Mac Pros are a better buy since its future proof.

While the last years 8 core models already have everything utilized and maxed out from the software side, the nehalems are just the beginning. Especially with snow leopard around the corner, which I really think has been projected towards nehalem based machines and its architecture.
Click to expand...

I hear you loud and clear, however alot of the daw's needed 6 months to catch up to Leopard, throw in the original thread issue and the new os around the corner who knows?. I need to get the most out of my rig and be productive today, Not crossing my fingers and hoping that it will all work itself in the future
 
Chocolate Baby said:
I hear you loud and clear, however alot of the daw's needed 6 months to catch up to Leopard, throw in the original thread issue and the new os around the corner who knows?. I need to get the most out of my rig and be productive today, Not crossing my fingers and hoping that it will all work itself in the future
Click to expand...

I understand if you absolutely need to get work done the fastest today, BUT no need to cross any fingers that it will work itself in the future. It WILL, trust me. :D

I mean if you buy the Nehalem Machine right now and use pro tools and can get by just fine (albeit a little slower than the previous gen 8 core machines) I would still just buy the Nehalem and still get the job done just a bit slower. Because I know for a fact that it will be supported in the near future (even if its 6 months), it would be the best investment.

Think about it, you still get your work done just a little slower (no big deal) but you know it will be THAT much faster later on so its kind of like a free upgrade. And once those benchmark results are out, it will save you time from trying to sell your 08 rig on eBay and actually losing money as well when these Nehalems are properly utilized and are HOT sale in 6 months.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back