MP 7,1 7,1 Bros: We're headed into 2025. How are we feeling?

[mattspace]

Very weak argument, imo when it comes to MacBook Pro's. They are incredible machines/power efficient/portable that rival desktop performance. I should know,

They rival mid-tier 3 year old desktop performance.

I have been docking the MBP lately and it feels amazing enough for real hardcore work.

You should write copy for Fleshlight.

MBPs have great CPUs and very strong GPUs. They are not NVIDIA and won't be for a while, that is the only argument you have.

They are truly a "sweet solution". *nodding*

I'm sure their breath smells sweet, and they stop to help old ladies across the road.

What are you using your GPUs for anyway? If it's gaming, then Macs are not for you. If it's hardcore 3D (ie Octane, Redshift, etc) then Macs are not for you either. Everything else is fine.

Whatever I goddamn well like.

I'm not going to justify why I don't want to use a laptop to do my work (hint: I use a lot of screens, all the time). Suffice to say, I don't. And when the forum is the Mac Pro Forum, what a laptop is, or can do is irrelevant.

 

[Regulus67]

What are you using your GPUs for anyway? If it's gaming, then Macs are not for you. If it's hardcore 3D (ie Octane, Redshift, etc) then Macs are not for you either. Everything else is fine.

The fact that I can game on my Mac Pro is an advantage in my opinion.
I have both Mac and Windows games installed.
Why would I buy a PC to game on, when gaming is the only thing I do in Windows?
I haven't played any game so far this year. But I am planning to. Even got an AMD RX 7900 XTX for flightsims.

I was using PCs for years, before I switched to Mac, with no regret whatsoever.
I am not a professional in any computer related areas. So I actually prefer the older machines.
The AI and biometrics in iOS, macOS and Windows, is something I really try to avoid as much as possible.

The Mac Pro 7,1, and the iMac Pro are machines that serves me perfectly. And will continue to let me get more advanced, without a need for more powerful machines. The 7,1 has more than enough headroom for me to grow.
And why shouldn't it? If it served pro users just a few years ago.
🥰

edit:
I did purchase some parts brand new, at great prices.
Both my Pro W6800X Duo cards, from Amazon
4TB SSD kit from Apple (full price), 8TB SSD kit from ebay

 

[SDAVE]

They rival mid-tier 3 year old desktop performance.

Equating a desktop to a laptop. Very strong argument lmao

The fact that I can game on my Mac Pro is an advantage in my opinion.
I have both Mac and Windows games installed.
Why would I buy a PC to game on, when gaming is the only thing I do in Windows?
I haven't played any game so far this year. But I am planning to. Even got an AMD RX 7900 XTX for flightsims.

I was using PCs for years, before I switched to Mac, with no regret whatsoever.
I am not a professional in any computer related areas. So I actually prefer the older machines.
The AI and biometrics in iOS, macOS and Windows, is something I really try to avoid as much as possible.

The Mac Pro 7,1, and the iMac Pro are machines that serves me perfectly. And will continue to let me get more advanced, without a need for more powerful machines. The 7,1 has more than enough headroom for me to grow.
And why shouldn't it? If it served pro users just a few years ago.
🥰

edit:
I did purchase some parts brand new, at great prices.
Both my Pro W6800X Duo cards, from Amazon
4TB SSD kit from Apple (full price), 8TB SSD kit from ebay

I game on my 7,1 too, I'm actually playing Last Of Us 2 PC with the 6900xt and Studio Display, getting great performance.

But my point is that Mac Pro is most likely going away in general.

I use my Macs and have for over 20 years as production machines, and majority of people do that too especially the high powered Macs.

My MP 2019 has paid for itself many times over, I may retire it next year, trying to see what Apple has in store...however, as I mentioned earlier, I have been docking my MBP lately with my Dual Studio Displays and it just feels snappier than my 28 core MP. Mass workloads, the MP still holds its own weight.

I personally don't like docking, but the latest MBPs (mind you I have a 4-5 year old M1 Max) just feels like a desktop when docked. There's barely any heat coming out of it and the fans rarely kick in (compared to Intel MBPs 2019 and below). I always had a dual machine setup, one desktop one laptop for on the go work.

Mind you, the 2019 MP is an incredible machine. It has given me many years of creative output and it paid for itself and let me play AAA games after work. But Apple killing off support for all Intel Macs just kills this thing. You can't even use OpenCore next year since Intel libraries will be completely removed with the next version of macOS. I primarily use the Adobe Creative Suite, who knows, maybe they just completely stop supporting Intel in 2027/2028. It's the most important factor for me.

I may potentially just make it a Windows machine only for gaming instead of selling it off for cheap. May put a RTX 5080/5090 and sell off the 6900XT.

 

[davidec]

My MP 2019 has paid for itself many times over, I may retire it next year, trying to see what Apple has in store...however, as I mentioned earlier, I have been docking my MBP lately with my Dual Studio Displays and it just feels snappier than my 28 core MP. Mass workloads, the MP still holds its own weight.

Same as you although I have a bunch of PCIe cards I need to factor in for audio. I wonder whether its time to go the Sonnet breakout box route and be done with the MP given the Studio seems to be getting lots of love. I'm at breaking point though and would dearly love Apple to let us know what there plans are with the MP so the high end niche market can plan ahead. I know its not what they do but it would be wonderfully courteous.

 

[mattspace]

Equating a desktop to a laptop. Very strong argument lmao

...you brought the laptop into it. This thread is a discussion about the 7,1. Don't complain when the laptop gets compared against the actual benchmark being discussed.

 

[mode11]

I may potentially just make it a Windows machine only for gaming instead of selling it off for cheap.

You could do, but e.g. a 14700K has twice the ST performance of an W-3275M (and better MT too). And there's obviously better gaming chips from both Intel and AMD. Would pair better with an RTX5090.

 

[SDAVE]

You could do, but e.g. a 14700K has twice the ST performance of an W-3275M (and better MT too). And there's obviously better gaming chips from both Intel and AMD. Would pair better with an RTX5090.

Yeah true, the Xeons are dated...however, building a new PC is a pain in the butt. I could just throw in a 5080 or 5090 in there and have a go 😅

 

[mode11]

building a new PC is a pain in the butt

It's only as complicated as you make it. If you get a decent ATX case, there's plenty of space and the included fans will be fine. A fully modular PSU minimises cable clutter. In terms of other components it's not that critical; just decide on AMD or Intel and buy whatever's currently recommended on review sites / on special at Amazon. An OEM Windows key is only a few quid. Setting Windows up is the same whether running on a Mac Pro or PC.

 

[avro707]

It's only as complicated as you make it. If you get a decent ATX case, there's plenty of space and the included fans will be fine. A fully modular PSU minimises cable clutter. In terms of other components it's not that critical; just decide on AMD or Intel and buy whatever's currently recommended on review sites / on special at Amazon. An OEM Windows key is only a few quid. Setting Windows up is the same whether running on a Mac Pro or PC.

It is still way easier to use the 2019 Mac Pro you already have. And it is better built than an PC you can build yourself.

Anyway, isn’t an M series Mac running a virtual machine supposed to be able to efficiently do everything a native windows can do? So they all say.

 

[mode11]

And it is better built than an PC you can build yourself.

That’s certainly true. My Fractal North is a nice case, but is tinny compared to a 5,1, let alone a 7,1.

 

[SDAVE]

It's only as complicated as you make it. If you get a decent ATX case, there's plenty of space and the included fans will be fine. A fully modular PSU minimises cable clutter. In terms of other components it's not that critical; just decide on AMD or Intel and buy whatever's currently recommended on review sites / on special at Amazon. An OEM Windows key is only a few quid. Setting Windows up is the same whether running on a Mac Pro or PC.

I know. I've built maybe 20-30 PCs in my life, but I customize them to a T usually and have to set fan curves, proper RAM, fan configs, etc. If I build one again it has to be an SFFPC I can put on the floor behind the desk.

But otherwise, I don't own any PCs, except Mac Pro 2019 which I boot into Windows sometimes for just games.

The 7,1 is a very cool looking case and stealth, so may do it, I dunno yet. I may just get a used 4090 I am not sure...the 6900XT is fine for now.

 

[Seiko4169]

The fact that I can game on my Mac Pro is an advantage in my opinion.
I have both Mac and Windows games installed.
Why would I buy a PC to game on, when gaming is the only thing I do in Windows?
I haven't played any game so far this year. But I am planning to. Even got an AMD RX 7900 XTX for flightsims.

I was using PCs for years, before I switched to Mac, with no regret whatsoever.
I am not a professional in any computer related areas. So I actually prefer the older machines.
The AI and biometrics in iOS, macOS and Windows, is something I really try to avoid as much as possible.

The Mac Pro 7,1, and the iMac Pro are machines that serves me perfectly. And will continue to let me get more advanced, without a need for more powerful machines. The 7,1 has more than enough headroom for me to grow.
And why shouldn't it? If it served pro users just a few years ago.
🥰

edit:
I did purchase some parts brand new, at great prices.
Both my Pro W6800X Duo cards, from Amazon
4TB SSD kit from Apple (full price), 8TB SSD kit from ebay

Yep same here, just wondering what amd drivers you used for the w6800s? I have dual w6900mpx and wanted to play Doom The Dark Ages only to find it complains about my driver version. I upgraded to the latest Pro drivers but Doom just shows bug splat. :-/

 

[pullman]

So my dear cMP3,1 is beginning to give up the ghost sadly. It's rebooting itself occasionally and it's about time I looked at getting a replacement. I'm pretty sure I could fix whatever ailments it has but it's not really worth it at this point.

The replacement will be a 2019 model, but what I'm wondering about is if it would be wiser to buy a better-spec'd one now or a more bare-bones one and then upgrade later. The difference in price can be pretty big, like 1500 Euro vs 2500 Euro.

Aside from difference in cost, is there anything speaking in favour of buying a lower-spec model? Just seeking people's views here. Perhaps some of you had the same thoughts before buying.

Thank you in advance
philip

 

[deconstruct60]

So my dear cMP3,1 is beginning to give up the ghost sadly. It's rebooting itself occasionally and it's about time I looked at getting a replacement. I'm pretty sure I could fix whatever ailments it has but it's not really worth it at this point.

The replacement will be a 2019 model, but what I'm wondering about is if it would be wiser to buy a better-spec'd one now or a more bare-bones one and then upgrade later. The difference in price can be pretty big, like 1500 Euro vs 2500 Euro.

Aside from difference in cost, is there anything speaking in favour of buying a lower-spec model?

If there are no current application performance requirements that put a high, actual need then don't buy what really not going to use. If primarily buying this to run macOS 99% of the time and if you haven't had performance problems with a cMP3,1 for recent years then even a lower end MP 2019 is a step up on performance envelope.

It is all (low , mid , higher spec MP 2019) old, used equipment at this point. macOS on the MP 2019 is going to be de-supported in a few years. ( macOS on Intel is dying off. Apple is openly saying so at this point. macOS 26 (Tahoe) is the last for Intel. ('26' is about to be released in a couple months in Fall 2025). Maybe two more years of minimal security upgrades and that's it. ). A 'better spec' isn't going to 'future proof' the configuration at all. Once macOS on Intel support goes away, application/driver support for that variant will start to dwindle also. New, high performance apps extremely likely are not coming for a 'obsolete ' platform.


What probably should be avoided on the MP 2019 models is the 512GB SSD configuration. [ That could be by-passed with ain internal SSD . But need t he Apple SSD for some basic maintenance needs even if avoid using it vast majority of time. Long term spare parts solution for the Apple SSD for Mac Pro is questionable. ] macOS 26 might be a little be more RAM consumption heavy (if you have been using older, de-supported macOS for long while). RAM can be bought separately.

Basically, up-spec only in narrow range for what need to incrementally move forward on.

In contrast, if performance problems were more of an issue than flakey, random reboots then a 'better spec' MP might solve some issue. If need more 'horsepower' then flakey wasn't the core issue. Whether 'better spec' is worth it depends upon how deep your performance deficit is. That would depend upon app workload and what was holding the apps 'back' from fuller potential.

 

[Regulus67]

So my dear cMP3,1 is beginning to give up the ghost sadly.

I have a 3,1 as well, with the last good macOS Server (El Capitan). But I haven't used it except for backing up files.

The replacement will be a 2019 model, but what I'm wondering about is if it would be wiser to buy a better-spec'd one now or a more bare-bones one and then upgrade later.

I have two 7,1s and upgraded the internal SSD in both with new kits. The first came with 1TB, and the second with 2TB.
A small internal SSD could be fine, if you plan to upgrade it later, otherwise I would try to find one with the internal storage that you know you will be happy with.

I also have two Promise Pegasus R4i modules. I am using one for macOS, the other one I will use for Windows.
The RAID is hard to find. I haven't seen it in any Mac Pro for sale. But could be very useful if you wish to avoid subscribing to iCloud+.

There does not seem to be a lack of MPX graphic cards, except for the W6900X, on ebay. Guess nobody is buying.

IF Apple should offer a new Mac Pro, it could cause a surge in better specced machines for sale.

You should also decide if you want a new 7,1, a refurbed, or used. Or hunt for a very good deal no matter what status it has.

In addition, there is the rack version. One advantage it has, is that you can open it while the machine is running. Perhaps for trouble shooting? There might be space for an dust filter in front of the fans as well, as far as I can tell from photos.

 

[avro707]

The replacement will be a 2019 model, but what I'm wondering about is if it would be wiser to buy a better-spec'd one now or a more bare-bones one and then upgrade later. The difference in price can be pretty big, like 1500 Euro vs 2500 Euro.

If you are savvy, you can upgrade it to a 28 core later as the upgrade is very simple, the 2019 7,1 is super easy to work on. Just beware that you are getting genuine retail CPUs and not QS or engineering sample versions.

The 16 core I think is the sweet spot. And for GPU a W6800X 32GB MPX module, or the Duo if you can find one with that.

But would a M4 Pro Mac Mini work for you, especially upgraded to maximum RAM?

The 28 core 7,1 machines I have are both fast enough for my needs, but they are high spec and were expensive. First one I got new from Apple as 16 core and later upgraded. Second one from iPowerResale and got lucky to find one in almost pristine as new condition with only two very tiny scratches that are very hard to see.

Maybe you won’t care about that, but it was important to me to find a second 7,1 that also visually looked perfect as people are going to see it.

 

[pullman]

Thank you very much for this analysis, which I think is spot on. Truth be told, my cMP3,1 has stood the test of time rather than well and with OCLP it runs Monterey smoothly. The heaviest stuff I use it for is Photoshop with rather large files but it handles that perfectly. So all this speaks in favour of a lesser-spec'd version that I can over time update, just as I did with the 3,1.

If I am reading everymac.com correctly there's no way to upgrade the SSD Apple shipped with the machines due to the proprietary connector. I had in any event planned on putting a few NVMEs in it as I prefer to use new drives.

A question though on the highlighted sentence below — am I reading it right that Windows would require a stronger machine to run well? It may be an aspect for me to consider since I plan on running my Hasselblad film scanner via Windows.

If there are no current application performance requirements that put a high, actual need then don't buy what really not going to use. If primarily buying this to run macOS 99% of the time and if you haven't had performance problems with a cMP3,1 for recent years then even a lower end MP 2019 is a step up on performance envelope.

It is all (low , mid , higher spec MP 2019) old, used equipment at this point. macOS on the MP 2019 is going to be de-supported in a few years. ( macOS on Intel is dying off. Apple is openly saying so at this point. macOS 26 (Tahoe) is the last for Intel. ('26' is about to be released in a couple months in Fall 2025). Maybe two more years of minimal security upgrades and that's it. ). A 'better spec' isn't going to 'future proof' the configuration at all. Once macOS on Intel support goes away, application/driver support for that variant will start to dwindle also. New, high performance apps extremely likely are not coming for a 'obsolete ' platform.


What probably should be avoided on the MP 2019 models is the 512GB SSD configuration. [ That could be by-passed with ain internal SSD . But need t he Apple SSD for some basic maintenance needs even if avoid using it vast majority of time. Long term spare parts solution for the Apple SSD for Mac Pro is questionable. ] macOS 26 might be a little be more RAM consumption heavy (if you have been using older, de-supported macOS for long while). RAM can be bought separately.

Basically, up-spec only in narrow range for what need to incrementally move forward on.

In contrast, if performance problems were more of an issue than flakey, random reboots then a 'better spec' MP might solve some issue. If need more 'horsepower' then flakey wasn't the core issue. Whether 'better spec' is worth it depends upon how deep your performance deficit is. That would depend upon app workload and what was holding the apps 'back' from fuller potential.

 

[Regulus67]

If I am reading everymac.com correctly there's no way to upgrade the SSD Apple shipped with the machines due to the proprietary connector. I had in any event planned on putting a few NVMEs in it as I prefer to use new drives.

everymac does not update the information. Last update was Update Published December 8, 2021

How to Upgrade Mac Pro SSD Storage (Tower, 2019): EveryMac.com

How to instructions and video to replace or upgrade the SSD storage in 2019 Tower and Rack-Mount Mac Pro models. Internal and external storage options.

everymac.com

I have two 7,1s and upgraded the internal SSD in both with new kits. The first came with 1TB, and the second with 2TB.
A small internal SSD could be fine, if you plan to upgrade it later, otherwise I would try to find one with the internal storage that you know you will be happy with.

How did you reach the conclusion you will not be able to upgrade the internal Apple SSD modules?
I upgraded the 1TB to 4TB, and the 2TB to 8TB. I purchased brand new kits, but used kits will also be fine, for a low price.

If I needed to, I could purchase an 8TB kit brand new from Amazon Sweden today.

Apple 8 TB ssd-paket till Mac Pro

Med 8 TB ssd-paketet till Mac Pro kan du uppgradera den interna ssd-lagringskapaciteten på Mac Pro. Paketet innehåller två moduler på vardera 4 TB som ersätter de nuvarande ssd-modulerna i systemet. Montering krävs.

www.amazon.se

Keep an eye on this seller. He had the 8TB kit I purchased. Don't buy the kit for the 2023 version, it will not work

Security Measure | eBay

www.ebay.com

 

[Flint Ironstag]

$3k USD for 8TB?!?! That is thievery. 😂

 

[Regulus67]

$3k USD for 8TB?!?! That is thievery. 😂

No kidding? 😆 That's Sweden for you, with 25% VAT.

Just look at the 2023 kits Apple sells
I paid 20 000 kr for the 4TB kit (2019). Price increased to 24 000 kr January 2024. No longer in stock

 

[pullman]

Thank you very much, and also for pointing to those Promise modules. It seems there are two versions, a small and a large. But how many PCI slots does the large one cover?

I've always thought the built-in HDD array was one of the strong points of the cMP models so I'm attracted to the idea of being able to do so in the 2019 model too. For my situation it's a bit of a bigger question, however, as I will need to rethink my storage strategy. I'm doing photo, video and audio and space is becoming scarce at the moment. So I may need an external solution anyway. There's also the issue of which PCI cards I need in the machine, so I'll need to think about this a bit more.

Perhaps there's a new Mac Pro coming? It seems to me there's room for improvement on the M2 Ultra in terms of expansion, which I guess anyone who's considering such a machine is after.

I'm also wondering how to think about RAM.

I see lots of options with 32-96GB but wonder if anything would speak in favour of going higher than that at the moment? RAM prices tend to drop, of course, but sometimes also rise, such as what happened with the cMP3,1 DIMMS a few years ago.

So can't the tower Mac Pro be open and run? I didn't realise this. Of course the whole chassis is removed but I expected it to be able to run, like the cMPs can with the side plate removed. It's not a deal breaker though.

cheers
Philip

I have a 3,1 as well, with the last good macOS Server (El Capitan). But I haven't used it except for backing up files.


I have two 7,1s and upgraded the internal SSD in both with new kits. The first came with 1TB, and the second with 2TB.
A small internal SSD could be fine, if you plan to upgrade it later, otherwise I would try to find one with the internal storage that you know you will be happy with.

I also have two Promise Pegasus R4i modules. I am using one for macOS, the other one I will use for Windows.
The RAID is hard to find. I haven't seen it in any Mac Pro for sale. But could be very useful if you wish to avoid subscribing to iCloud+.

There does not seem to be a lack of MPX graphic cards, except for the W6900X, on ebay. Guess nobody is buying.

IF Apple should offer a new Mac Pro, it could cause a surge in better specced machines for sale.

You should also decide if you want a new 7,1, a refurbed, or used. Or hunt for a very good deal no matter what status it has.

In addition, there is the rack version. One advantage it has, is that you can open it while the machine is running. Perhaps for trouble shooting? There might be space for an dust filter in front of the fans as well, as far as I can tell from photos.

 

[pullman]

I was intrigued to learn that the CPUs can be upgraded. I saw it mentioned at everymac and this possibility was actually what spawned my question of whether buying a more powerful machine now makes sense.

Your question about the M4 Pro or other Mini is also something I've wondered about. It ties in with my (soon current) future storage needs and I'll need to make a few calculations to see if it makes sense to add my storage in external boxes. I have one currently, an OWC Mercury Elite Pro Dual, and frankly speaking it's pretty loud. I can hear it next to my cMP3,1. There are likely other, better options but ultimately each box adds money to the equation, sound pollution in the office and cables which must be managed.

As you can see, I'm very capable to persuade myself lol.

Those 28 core machines must be amazingly quick, though. How would you describe the difference going from 16 core to 28 core?

cheers
philip

If you are savvy, you can upgrade it to a 28 core later as the upgrade is very simple, the 2019 7,1 is super easy to work on. Just beware that you are getting genuine retail CPUs and not QS or engineering sample versions.

The 16 core I think is the sweet spot. And for GPU a W6800X 32GB MPX module, or the Duo if you can find one with that.

But would a M4 Pro Mac Mini work for you, especially upgraded to maximum RAM?

The 28 core 7,1 machines I have are both fast enough for my needs, but they are high spec and were expensive. First one I got new from Apple as 16 core and later upgraded. Second one from iPowerResale and got lucky to find one in almost pristine as new condition with only two very tiny scratches that are very hard to see.

Maybe you won’t care about that, but it was important to me to find a second 7,1 that also visually looked perfect as people are going to see it.

 

[pullman]

Apologies for the cross-posting, I didn't see your reply when I wrote back earlier. I realise now – tack så mycket – that I was basing myself on old information.

But this is great news, and yet another solid argument for the Mac Pro 2019 😁

everymac does not update the information. Last update was Update Published December 8, 2021

How to Upgrade Mac Pro SSD Storage (Tower, 2019): EveryMac.com

How to instructions and video to replace or upgrade the SSD storage in 2019 Tower and Rack-Mount Mac Pro models. Internal and external storage options.

everymac.com

How did you reach the conclusion you will not be able to upgrade the internal Apple SSD modules?
I upgraded the 1TB to 4TB, and the 2TB to 8TB. I purchased brand new kits, but used kits will also be fine, for a low price.

If I needed to, I could purchase an 8TB kit brand new from Amazon Sweden today.

Apple 8 TB ssd-paket till Mac Pro

Med 8 TB ssd-paketet till Mac Pro kan du uppgradera den interna ssd-lagringskapaciteten på Mac Pro. Paketet innehåller två moduler på vardera 4 TB som ersätter de nuvarande ssd-modulerna i systemet. Montering krävs.

www.amazon.se

Keep an eye on this seller. He had the 8TB kit I purchased. Don't buy the kit for the 2023 version, it will not work

Security Measure | eBay

www.ebay.com

 

[Regulus67]

Thank you very much, and also for pointing to those Promise modules. It seems there are two versions, a small and a large. But how many PCI slots does the large one cover?

This shows the space used by the RAID enclosure and the HD bay in my Mac Pro.
It does make the fans a little louder, as the airflow is restricted because of the massive HDs.

So can't the tower Mac Pro be open and run? I didn't realise this. Of course the whole chassis is removed but I expected it to be able to run, like the cMPs can with the side plate removed. It's not a deal breaker though.

There is an electrical connection between the body and the lid.

I hope this helps.
Bara roligt att vara till hjälp

 

[pullman]

Thank you very much, this is super helpful for me. It seems that there are still three PCI slots available even with all that installed. Amazing stuff.

I suppose they added that electrical connection for a reason haha.

View attachment 2539882

This shows the space used by the RAID enclosure and the HD bay in my Mac Pro.
It does make the fans a little louder, as the airflow is restricted because of the massive HDs.

View attachment 2539885



View attachment 2539883 View attachment 2539884

There is an electrical connection between the body and the lid.

I hope this helps.
Bara roligt att vara till hjälp