8-Core Mac Pros have arrived.

[shawnce]

Has anyone ever purchased a Mac Pro through the Select or Premium Developer program discount?

I was curious wheither or not you receive the identical hardware and software as if purchased through the normal Apple store.

They are just like the systems you purchase via the normal Apple store.

I am asking whether Mac OS 10.4 has been designed to avoid shifting a SINGLE thread between all 8 cores, or whether it knows it should keep it on the same core each time it runs. ... Has Mac OS been similarly fixed?

Nope Mac OS X 10.4 does not have core affinity nor does it understand the core topology.

The fixes are in Leopard, and Leopard was supposed to be out by now.

That isn't correct. At WWDC 06 laster year Apple stated that Leopard would come out sometime in spring 2007. We just got into spring so it isn't late yet.

 

[Amdahl]

I think OSX 10.4 handles 8 cores just fine

And I think it doesn't.

If you dig through the performance specs you will see there are several software benchmarks, particularly the 3D rendering and video encoding software, that test nearly 2X faster than the 3.0 Ghz quad.

Yes, but those are exactly the type of activities that blow through cache anyway , or would be marked by the code not to cache. The problem wouldn't show up here.

Also there is a note that specifies that the performance tests were run on pre-production quad core chips back in July of 2006. Apple has had plenty of time to address any glaring issues with the performance of these chips on Tiger.

Yes, as I noted, the problem would have only been MILD in that configuration. When you put two 'quad' Intel chips on one bus, the problem escalates. I have not seen a single mention anywhere of Mac OS having made this correction. All I recall from 10.4's pre-release days was that they had added another 'pipe' or 'funnel' to improve multi-threading in the kernel. But that is not the same thing as reworking the kernel scheduler. This is the type of feature that had previously only been seen in heavy UNIXs like Solaris. I don't think FreeBSD has this right now either.

 

[MacViolinist]

Two quick points:

First, I suspect Apple was able to get the quad-cores before other manufacturers not in spite of Intel's limited supply, but because of it. There is no way that Intel can now provide these in the numbers that Dell, HP-C or IBM would need.

Second, (and very closely related) I think Apple probably set a high price to limit the demand to what they can get their hands on from Intel. It's something, at least, to be first. It's worth nothing if they get too many orders and can't fill them. I also think this is why there is limited international availability.

I agree with the reasoning that views this as a top-out-of-sight BTO option rather than a real update to the MP line. I also think there is some switcher potential here that Apple sees. People who know how to use multiple processors (as AidenShaw pointed out) want them now. They might even want them bad enough to use a Mac.

 

[Amdahl]

Nope Mac OS X 10.4 does not have core affinity nor does it understand the core topology.

Thank you, that is what I'm looking for. Do you know if it is in 10.5? I can't imagine the answer is no.

That isn't correct. At WWDC 06 laster year Apple stated that Leopard would come out sometime in spring 2007. We just got into spring so it isn't late yet.

Industry news says it was expected in March/April, i.e., right now. And it has been pushed back to June, which is technically as late as June 21. But that isn't really my point. My point is that this machine is too much for the OS to handle.

 

[shawnce]

All I recall from 10.4's pre-release days was that they had added another 'pipe' or 'funnel' to improve multi-threading in the kernel.

IIRC 10.3 or maybe 10.2 added a second kernel funnel that split file system (or was it network...?) off from the rest of the BSD layer, allowing the two to run concurrently. In 10.4 Apple added fine grain locking to the kernel (BSD layer in particular) that allows much more concurrency they was possible under the simple funnel model that BSD has historically used. Note that IOKit and IOKit based kext have always had fine grain locking.

Mac OS X 10.5 is going beyond that in several ways but I cannot talk about that in any detail just yet.

Update... it was actually way back in 10.0 that a split funnel was added that split networking off from the rest of the BSD layer. See technote 2028.

Industry news says it was expected in March/April, i.e., right now. And it has been pushed back to June, which is technically as late as June 21. But that isn't really my point. My point is that this machine is too much for the OS to handle.

Folks got ahead of what Apple stated. I also wouldn't say that 8 cores is too much for Mac OS X 10.4 to handle... it may not handle them as efficiently as possible under some work loads but it will work and work well for many.

 

[Rocketman]

But buying the PS3s means i'm just buying them for the project because i just don't see myself playing that console. The Quads however would be fun to use and with a X1900 XT you can actually play some decent games.

If you have enough money to buy computers primarily for folding, at least buy a bunch of them and give them to underserved smart students, schools, or rising programmers with a twinkie diet for lack of cash.

Be altruistic. Heck, the programmers would even let you log onto the machines for your own compute use since you gave them to them

Rocketman

 

[Amdahl]

IIRC 10.3 or maybe 10.2 added a second kernel funnel that split file system (or was it network...?) off from the rest of the BSD layer, allowing the two to run concurrently. In 10.4 Apple added fine grain locking to the kernel (BSD layer in particular) that allows much more concurrency they was possible under the simple funnel model that BSD has historically used.

That (10.4) sounds like the importation of FreeBSD 5, which did the same thing to their kernel.

 

[shawnce]

That (10.4) sounds like the importation of FreeBSD 5, which did the same thing to their kernel.

Along with many home grown changes.

 

[Multimedia]

New 2007 Stoakley-Seaburg Motherboard With New Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro Thread

What do you use to check your power consumption? Educate me please.

Indeed, I had the same first thought, "I wonder if MULTIMEDIA was awake at 6:22 AM PST when this release finally went official.

But really for the kind of video he crunches, he will still need a lot more power: this box is just an incremental improvement --

Obsolete in 4 months.

Really.

New 2007 Stoakley-Seaburg Motherboard With New Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro thread. Sorry folks. This FrankenMac is exactly what I warned against in many posts.

Four core buyers, my apologies for encouraging you to wait. This is not what many of us were waiting for.

 

[AidenShaw]

Switch - but back to Windows

I also think there is some switcher potential here that Apple sees. People who know how to use multiple processors (as AidenShaw pointed out) want them now. They might even want them bad enough to use a Mac.

My Dell octo-core was delivered the week of 25 December - I've been using it for 3 months.

Octo-core isn't a reason to switch *to* an Apple - it's been a reason to stay with a PC workstation since last November.

At best, Apple may have 3.0 GHz octos for a couple of weeks or months while everyone else has 2.66 as the top. But, that's not enough of a performance advantage to get many switchers - especially when people know that the 3.0 GHz will be on other systems by July at the latest.

 

[gorda777]

Please re-think what the both of U mentioned.

I think the time is right for this idea. They've never done it because it would eat into iMac sales. And that's true. It would.

But we're getting to the point where they can afford that. In other words, such a system could hypothetically cut iMac sales in half, but it's ok because they've grown 300% over the last few years anyway. Or something like that. I have no real numbers to back this up but I have to think that over the next 3 years something like what I described COULD happen.

I'd love to see it too.

Many people don't realize when U purchase Apple machines your getting FAR BETTER QUALITY then anything DELL, HP, GATEWAY, etc... have to offer. With Quality everyone knows U PAY A LITTLE MORE. and YOU GET WHAT U PAY FOR.

So for anyone who thinks the MAC PRO'S are to expensive, then get an iMac and if U don't want an iMac then U should re-think what choices U have with other BRANDS... and U may also think about this... while your at it.... U ONLY LIVE ONCE...... STOP BEING FRUGAL.... AND IF THATS NOT AN OPTION then go get a DELL and enjoy the LONGGGGG WAIT TIMES FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE AND TECH SUPPORT.

 

[shawnce]

FrankenMac

Sorry I find that annoying ... this is a Mac Pro with an additional build to order option, nothing more nothing less. It is no different then any other 8 core Xeon system on the market from Dell or others (other then Apple getting a slight jump at the 3 GHz part).

Apple is waiting for the new chipset just like the rest of us are... but that doesn't mean they shouldn't provide a BTO that some folks may find useful (in particular developers getting ready for 8 core systems and Leopard).

The new chipset + Leopard + 45nm Xeon will be the sweet spot for the next major revision of the Mac Pro and will make for one nice workstation (note Apple could switch to the new chipset well before 45nm Xeons are ready).

 

[FFTT]

My Dell octo-core was delivered the week of 25 December - I've been using it for 3 months.

Octo-core isn't a reason to switch *to* an Apple - it's been a reason to stay with a PC workstation since last November.

At best, Apple may have 3.0 GHz octos for a couple of weeks or months while everyone else has 2.66 as the top. But, that's not enough of a performance advantage to get many switchers - especially when people know that the 3.0 GHz will be on other systems by July at the latest.

I understand your point, but for crying out loud, it's REV "A"

A year ago most of us were not expecting anything like this until 2008.

I think after the dust settles a bit we'll see price drops on the previous models and eventually see improvements to the 8 core machine as well.

Right now what's critical is getting all the Pro apps and plugins to take advantage of this new multi-core architecture.

At least Apple has a new workstation class machine they can show off at NAB and hopefully the upcoming Pro apps will be worth the wait.

Patience man patience.

 

[downset]

i was waiting on the 8-core thread for an update to buy maybe one of the lower clocked 8-cores or a droped in price 4-core

then on the day adobe released cs3, i got a offer to buy a second hand 2.66 4-core with 2gb ram (2x1gb original apple ram) for 2000euros, so i bought it imediatly

i was very afraid to be really disapointed when the new 8-cores came, but now im glad i did buy it

the thing is crazy fast compared to my previous imac.

i have been running several aplication as a duplicate to max out the 4 cores, for instance mediafork, rips dvd around 60 frames per second with all 4 cores around 60%, if i start a second copy of mediafor, all cores go to 90% and i rip two dvd at 50 fps each

i have been doing the same with mactheripper and XLD works great, but as stated before most software doenst really max out all cores on its own

 

[GanleyBurger]

It's funny how I was frustrated with Apple a week ago for not giving us the latest technology, but now that they have offered this Octo option, I'm more frustrated. This is something a PC company would do. For buyers, now what do you call this thing... an 8-weeks-before the new product line is released Octo??? And doesn't an Octo need like a mountain of memory to make a difference??? $$$

Could this mean that Apple is going to delay a major product release until September or something? This threw off my guestimates.

I'd rather wait for Apple to release a new product line with several options changed (e.g. graphics card??? HD??? Blueray??? new types of memory??? new design??? etc.).

Weird Wednesday!!!

 

[danpat]

On the AUS Apple site, 2-4 shipping days. $6427.99 with just the upgrade to dual Quad core.
~ouch~

 

[Multimedia]

This 8-Core Mac Pro Is Essential For Software Developers To Be Ready For The SS Model

Sorry I find that annoying ... this is a Mac Pro with an additional build to order option, nothing more nothing less. It is no different then any other 8 core Xeon system on the market from Dell or others (other then Apple getting a slight jump at the 3 GHz part).

Apple is waiting for the new chipset just like the rest of us are... but that doesn't mean they shouldn't provide a BTO that some folks may find useful (in particular developers getting ready for 8 core systems and Leopard).

The new chipset + Leopard + 45nm Xeon will be the sweet spot for the next major revision of the Mac Pro and will make for one nice workstation (note Apple could switch to the new chipset well before 45nm Xeons are ready).

I agree with you completely. Sorry for the poor choice of colorful language. But I thrive on hyperbole.

 

[nuckinfutz]

It's funny how I was frustrated with Apple a week ago for not giving us the latest technology, but now that they have offered this Octo option, I'm more frustrated. This is something a PC company would do. For buyers, now what do you call this thing... an 8-weeks-before the new product line is released Octo??? And doesn't an Octo need like a mountain of memory to make a difference??? $$$

Could this mean that Apple is going to delay a major product release until September or something? This threw off my guestimates.

I'd rather wait for Apple to release a new product line with several options changed (e.g. graphics card??? HD??? Blueray??? new types of memory??? new design??? etc.).

Weird Wednesday!!!

I don't think you're understanding the market. What you have today is what is available. Clovertown 3Ghz is just now available. Apple cannot add Blu-ray without implicit support for HDCP content protection. They don't sell Cinema Dispays that support HDCP so you'd have a limited performance as Apple doesn't offer Blu-ray authoring either and you couldn't playback Blu-ray movies. FB-DIMM is the newest memory type and the only thing to look forward to is 800Mhz memory. GPU cards will likely require OpenGL 2.x for full support (GLSL)

Don't get frustrated man. Today's Octo core Mac Pro will be able to run the next GPUs coming. It'll eventually support HDCP in monitors and GPU for Blu-ray/HD DVD support. Today isn't that day but today's machine will support these features when the pieces are ready.

 

[nurfen]

I find it totally absurd that Apple's leaving the prices of the previous models the same.

The old models are ... OLD!

 

[downset]

I find it totally absurd that Apple's leaving the prices of the previous models the same.

The old models are ... OLD!

not true

1. there is nothing newer from intel

2. the same PC costs more

so the MacPro is brand new and cheap

stop adding to the old macs are expensive/outdated argument its not true

surf to dell.com and create a dual-dual or dual-quad core xeon machine compareble to the mac pro

 

[Lord Nerdos]

Oh well...

New 2007 Stoakley-Seaburg Motherboard With New Graphics Cards 8-Core Mac Pro thread. Sorry folks. This FrankenMac is exactly what I warned against in many posts.

Four core buyers, my apologies for encouraging you to wait. This is not want many of us were waiting for.

As one who waited and waited and then waited some more... I'm not exactly sure what to do other than wait for even more.

I was in fear of this happening. The 8-core is great for professional workstation users. It is awesome that Apple are the first to get a 3GHz quad-core chip too. Finally we can say that Apple really does have the fastest chips hands down! BUT...

... what to do now..? Having waited so long I feel that the purchase of an 8 month old configuration is a rapidly less enticing prospect... My hope is that this mac pro is not viewed by Apple as an update but rather, as has been said before, an additional BTO that precedes new mac pros with SS and new GPUs with Leopard and iLife at WWDC.

 

[nurfen]

not true

1. there is nothing newer from intel

2. the same PC costs more

so the MacPro is brand new and cheap

stop adding to the old macs are expensive/outdated argument its not true

surf to dell.com and create a dual-dual or dual-quad core xeon machine compareble to the mac pro

No, really. Their prices are outdated! GFX price is a big joke, RAM price is an even bigger joke, hard drive not as big a joke as the previous two, but still a big joke.. Hmm.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm going to buy a Mac Pro in May (or possibly June), but I don't like the price of the accessories.

 

[kellen]

Wow, read all the pages. So basically someone is just dumping 2 4-core chips onto the macpro, no new FSB or pricedrops? Makes me glad I still have my CD macbook.

So just for clarification, there are no 3.0 quadcore chips, these are just overclocked 2.66 chips?

Thanks

 

[downset]

No, really. Their prices are outdated! GFX price is a big joke, RAM price is an even bigger joke, hard drive not as big a joke as the previous two, but still a big joke.. Hmm.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I'm going to buy a Mac Pro in May (or possibly June), but I don't like the price of the accessories.

buy the bare system and buy ram and HD somewhere else
there bare system is dead cheap compared to a similar pc, and the macPro is way better designed, believe me when you add 4 cheap 500GB SATA HD in the HDsliders you will feel mighty good

i dont now about the USA, but here in europe i can buy a 500GB SATA for 110 euros, and prices drop everyday

 

[Multimedia]

3GHz Clovertowns Are Not Overclocked

Wow, read all the pages. So basically someone is just dumping 2 4-core chips onto the macpro, no new FSB or pricedrops? Makes me glad I still have my CD macbook.

So just for clarification, there are no 3.0 quadcore chips, these are just overclocked 2.66 chips?

No they are not overclocked 2.66 Clovertowns. They are a new 3GHz model. The newest.