8-Core Mac Pros have arrived.

[nuckinfutz]

There's little point in complaining about the RAM/GPU/HDD

Workstations typically come in 0/0/0 configs where you build in the appropriate amounts of RAM, graphics and storage.

Apple delivers a baseline confige which is barebones because price is so important to people from the onset.

People expecting more were delluding themselves. The Bensely platform wasn't due for a refresh until late 2007.

Nvidia cards could have been delivered on Tiger but the effort to develop the drivers for maximum performance is rather silly seeing as how the Mac faithful will begin the migration to Leopard this summer.

 

[kellen]

No they are not overclocked 2.66 Clovertowns. They are a new 3GHz model. The newest.

Thanks

So with this addition to the line up of mac pros, I can't see them getting anything new for awhile, especially at NAB. So whose waiting for the next iteration?

PS Where have you been all day Multimedia? Thought you would have been the first or second person on this thread!

 

[nuckinfutz]

Thanks

So with this addition to the line up of mac pros, I can't see them getting anything new for awhile, especially at NAB. So whose waiting for the next iteration?

PS Where have you been all day Multimedia? Thought you would have been the first or second person on this thread!

I'd say if someone wants to make a larger leap forward and can handle their current computer for a while then waiting for Stoakley/Seaburg isn't a bad idea. If your machine is simply not cutting it today then the Quad or Octo Mac Pro is fine.

Kellen...did you buy your mini with 2GB of RAM or did you upgrade after the purchase? I'm looking at upgrading my mini to 2GB and I'm curious about the performance improvement. I'm still stuck with 512MB...ughhh.

 

[motulist]

As one who waited and waited and then waited some more... I'm not exactly sure what to do other than wait for even more.

The time you've already spent waiting is what's know as a sunk cost. Meaning, the time you've spent waiting is irretrievable. According to economic theory, sunk costs shouldn't be factored into buying and spending decisions at all, the only thing that counts is what's the best decision you can make from your current position that leads to the best outcome.

For instance, let's say you go to see a movie and you pay $12 for your ticket. After sitting through half the movie you feel like watching the movie is torture and you want to walk out, but since the theater has a strict no refund policy, you feel like you have to sit through the rest of the terrible movie so you can "get your money's worth" otherwise you'd be "wasting" $6.

But that's an incorrect description of your situation, because all $12 dollars have already been spent no matter how you decide to occupy your time afterwards. So the only decision you have any control over is how you spend the next 45 minutes of your life. Do you spend it suffering through a terrible movie, or do you walk out and go catch a tv show at home? Either way, you're still out $12, but one way is torture and one is pleasant.

So the amount of time you've already waited for the new Macs shouldn't enter into your decision, because you can't get that time back. The only question that you should ask is the only one that you have control over -

- Is now a good time for me to buy a Mac?

If you decide to wait even more, that means more time without having a new mac, and all the consequences that entails. For instance, if you run a business on your machine and it's getting slow for your demands and thus lowers your productivity, you have to consider the amount of work lost in lower productivity between now and when you finally get a new mac to work on.

The only caveat to this logical perspective is the emotional perspective. Sure, if it makes monetary sense to buy a new mac now, that's a great reason to buy right now, but if you think having new macs come out in a few months will significantly impact your enjoyment of the computer you bought, then you should take that into consideration.

So this is the second (2 part) question you might want to consider;
A) How long a gap between when I buy a computer and when newer models come out would I be satisfied with?
B) Do I think newer models will be released before that length of time?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

 

[Multimedia]

Indisposed

Thanks Where have you been all day Multimedia? Thought you would have been the first or second person on this thread!

I was indisposed.

 

[downset]

I'd say if someone wants to make a larger leap forward and can handle their current computer for a while then waiting for Stoakley/Seaburg isn't a bad idea. If your machine is simply not cutting it today then the Quad or Octo Mac Pro is fine.

Kellen...did you buy your mini with 2GB of RAM or did you upgrade after the purchase? I'm looking at upgrading my mini to 2GB and I'm curious about the performance improvement. I'm still stuck with 512MB...ughhh.

i got 2gb of ram of ebay (100 euros) for my mini, and the difference is day and night, the machine was driving me crazy with only 512mb of ram, with 2gb its really fast, great little computer, i got it for my girlfriend to replace her pIV PC, we also use it as a media hub to play movies on our LCD TV, works great, my life got so much better here at home now i dont have to troubleshoot the damn PC all the time

 

[mkmcfr]

Available In France

About your remark that the quad is only available in US & Canada, a look at the French web site shows it shipping within 24 hours...

 

[murfle]

Looks like I have to wait 2 weeks before we get pricing for the octo's where I'm living right now Then probably another 2-3 weeks before it'll get to me... *grumble*

 

[Whiteapple]

Folks over at Hardmac believe the reason for the complete "mis-synchronization" between America and Europe, in addition to the unusual date&time of the update, is due to Apple wanting to create a "diversion" from an April 3rd Greenpeace report, ranking our favorite electronics company last...

I could easily believe that, since nothing was obviously ready on our french Store.

 

[nuckinfutz]

i got 2gb of ram of ebay (100 euros) for my mini, and the difference is day and night, the machine was driving me crazy with only 512mb of ram, with 2gb its really fast, great little computer, i got it for my girlfriend to replace her pIV PC, we also use it as a media hub to play movies on our LCD TV, works great, my life got so much better here at home now i dont have to troubleshoot the damn PC all the time

Thank God. I'm getting sick of beachballs (although I am impressed with how graceful my Mac runs out of memory. I've seen worse on XP)

I hate troubleshooting PCs. My gf has a old dusty gateway and man I shudder everytime I have to deal with it. I told her she has got to go Mac or I'm leaving. jk. But I will likely replace her HP laptop with a Macbook in a couple of years and set her up with Parallels or VMware.

 

[downset]

Thank God. I'm getting sick of beachballs (although I am impressed with how graceful my Mac runs out of memory. I've seen worse on XP)

I hate troubleshooting PCs. My gf has a old dusty gateway and man I shudder everytime I have to deal with it. I told her she has got to go Mac or I'm leaving. jk. But I will likely replace her HP laptop with a Macbook in a couple of years and set her up with Parallels or VMware.

i actually used the 2gb mini (1.66GHz core duo) for two weeks while i was inbetween my G5 imac and my new macpro and it worked great, the macpro is way faster when doing heavy work, but in normal use its not very different it certainly didnt feel any slower then my imac

i set up parrallels for my GF, and she only uses it to play popcap games from the internet the conversion went smooth, the one thing she loves is how her treo 680 syncs with missing sync and ical, adres book, iphoto, just not possible on pc...

 

[MacViolinist]

My Dell octo-core was delivered the week of 25 December - I've been using it for 3 months.

Octo-core isn't a reason to switch *to* an Apple - it's been a reason to stay with a PC workstation since last November.

At best, Apple may have 3.0 GHz octos for a couple of weeks or months while everyone else has 2.66 as the top. But, that's not enough of a performance advantage to get many switchers - especially when people know that the 3.0 GHz will be on other systems by July at the latest.

I didn't mean to imply that Apple was the first to have an octocore system. I meant that Apple has a certain feather in its cap that some might see as compelling. As you may have noticed, that was the final and least important bit of my post. The earlier bits may still be relevant.

Or they may not be. It doesn't really matter to me. My point was to quell a little of the griping, if possible. And to point out that Apple is probably pissed about being late in the game with some of the core procs and has now found a way to leverage their apparent weakness: they can be first because they are a small player.

Then again, maybe not. It's all speculation.

 

[ydmusic]

wished for price drops or slight upgrades...at least!

I know this thread is getting long, but I had to also put in my 2 cents.

I was wishing for at least a few minor or symbolic upgrades to the entire line, especially after such a long time! I was very happy to see the Mac Pros come out in August, but traditional gizmo wisdom told me to wait for the second generation for the kinks to be worked out. It seems that either these are perfect machines, or we have not actually seen any upgrade at all!

Secondly, such as myself, there are many professionals who can use all the power they can get, and can't afford a 4000 dollar machine. I had hoped that the quad processors would all at least be bumped up a notch for the same price, as in previous mac upgrades. I would have been satisfied even if a 320gb drive replaced the 250gb, or if wireless was thrown in.

I just don't understand why the pro line in general was completely untouched in it's basic configuration.

 

[a456]

What is the difference between having two Dual Core chips and one Quad-Core chip? Would the cheaper Mac Pros be as efficient (in terms of cost and power), perhaps even more efficient with only one?

 

[downset]

I know this thread is getting long, but I had to also put in my 2 cents.

I was wishing for at least a few minor or symbolic upgrades to the entire line, especially after such a long time! I was very happy to see the Mac Pros come out in August, but traditional gizmo wisdom told me to wait for the second generation for the kinks to be worked out. It seems that either these are perfect machines, or we have not actually seen any upgrade at all!

Secondly, such as myself, there are many professionals who can use all the power they can get, and can't afford a 4000 dollar machine. I had hoped that the quad processors would all at least be bumped up a notch for the same price, as in previous mac upgrades. I would have been satisfied even if a 320gb drive replaced the 250gb, or if wireless was thrown in.

I just don't understand why the pro line in general was completely untouched in it's basic configuration.

first of all, what upgrades, you can add ram,HD and grafic cards yourself

second, the machines are still really cheap, really just try to configure one at dell.com, why should aple make the cheapest even cheaper

a dual dual-core 2.66 macpro with 250GB HD + 1GB ram = 2500$
a dual dual-core 2.66 Dell Precision Workstation 490 with 250gb HD + 1GB ram = 3900$

if i add the 3.0 ghz quad to the macpro the price is 3997$
the same to the dell precision is 5794$

only difference is the graphic card, i took the cheapest dell had: 256MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 3450

so maybe you think apple should be even cheaper? i dont get it, its not like apple is trailing behind like they used to they have the newest intel parts at a great price

and just look at this ugly pc, man i love my mac pro, especialy the internals are amazing design

 

[nuckinfutz]

Intel has not reduced the pricing of the Xeon chips in question so price cuts aren't going to happen. April 22nd is supposed to bring a price cut on some chips followed by another price cut in July. Apple will either lower pricing...bump the config or pocket the cash. We'll see what they do then.

 

[smirkingboy]

personally gonna wait just a leeeeeel bit more and see what happens at NAB.

some quick questions:

1. why are so many people pricing out their mac pros with RAM and hard drives from apple? you could save thousands putting that stuff in yourself, and it would be just as good, if not better. what am i missing?

2. has anyone tried putting in 10,000 RPM raptor drives as the operating system disks (one for osx, one for windows)?

3. these new flash-based SATA drives, how fast will these be? would they make good operating system drives?

4. i have heard that some apps may actually run SLOWER on the octo than they do on the quad. thoughts?

Thank God. I'm getting sick of beachballs (although I am impressed with how graceful my Mac runs out of memory. I've seen worse on XP)

I hate troubleshooting PCs. My gf has a old dusty gateway and man I shudder everytime I have to deal with it. I told her she has got to go Mac or I'm leaving. jk. But I will likely replace her HP laptop with a Macbook in a couple of years and set her up with Parallels or VMware.

there should be a website for people who have gotten their partners to switch to mac. it could be a whole themed thing. you could surreptitiously send them a URL link one day that takes them to an all-black page - fade in helvetica - "your (boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife) loves you. that's why (s)he's sent you here."

 

[kromekat]

Well my order to the UK store is in this morning! - I have waited long enough to shift up the gears to an Intel Mac Pro, and despite some hesitation yesterday about the 8 core, I decided that 4x speedup over my current dual 2.5 G5 was worth it for my 3D / AE rendering needs.

I will of course be adding RAM from Crucial, and HD's from elsewhere.

Adam

 

[FFTT]

Apple's RAM prices are reasonably competitive for the required FB ECC DIMMS with the required oversized heat spreaders.

Sure you can save a bit buying from the better known 3rd parties.

When you configure your machine, keep in mind that you need to add RAM
in groups of 4 DIMMS

4X512 4X1GB or 4X2GB

For most people, there's little point in buying the stock RAM only to
store it for all eternity when you replace it with 3rd party 1 GB sticks.

In reality, the minimum RAM configuration for these machines should be
4X1GB

 

[akadmon]

keep in mind that you need to add RAM
in groups of 4 DIMMS

4X512 4X1GB or 4X2GB

You sure aout that? If you're correct, then a 3GB config is not possible. My understanding is you have to add pairs, i.e., 21512, 2X1GB, 2X2GB.

 

[gnasher729]

About your remark that the quad is only available in US & Canada, a look at the French web site shows it shipping within 24 hours...

Just checked, it is available in the UK store as well. 5 days shipping with 8 cores.

 

[AidenShaw]

$3130 is what I see

a dual dual-core 2.66 macpro with 250GB HD + 1GB ram = 2500$
a dual dual-core 2.66 Dell Precision Workstation 490 with 250gb HD + 1GB ram = 3900$

Don't forget to add $249 for Applecare to match Dell's standard 3 year warranty .

I came up with a quote about $800 lower for the Dell...

Dell Precision Workstation 490 MiniTower - 32bit

$3,130

Catalog Number / Description Product Code SKU Id

Dell Precision Workstation 490 MiniTower - 32bit:
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5150 2.66GHz, 4MB L2,1333 4M264 [222-3799] 1

2nd Processor:
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® Processor 5150 2.66GHz, 4MB L2,1333 PR264 [311-6286] 2

Operating System:
Genuine Windows® XP Professional, SP2 with Media XPP2E [310-8617][420-4860] 11

Graphic Cards:
128MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro NVS 285, Dual DVI or Dual VGA Capable NV285DV [320-4761] 6

Memory:
1GB, DDR2 SDRAM FBD Memory, 533MHz, ECC (2 DIMMS) 1G2E [311-5946] 3

Boot Hard Drive:
250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s,7200 RPM NCQ Hard Drive with 8MB DataBurst Cache™ 250ST [341-3409] 8

CD-ROM, DVD, and Read-Write Devices:
16X DVD+/-RW w/ Cyberlink PowerDVD™ and Roxio Creator™ Dell Ed DVRW16 [313-4287] 16

Floppy Drive and Media Card Reader Options:
3.5 inch 1.44MB Floppy Drive FD [341-3690] 10

Monitors:
No Monitor NMN [320-3316] 5

Keyboard:
USB Entry Quietkey, No Hot Keys U [310-7949] 4

Mouse:
Dell USB 2-Button Mechanical Mouse with Scroll ELD [310-7959] 12

Sound Card and 1394:
1394a Controller Card 1394 [313-4162] 17

Speakers:
Internal Chassis Speaker,Dell INTSPK [313-4160] 18

Hardware Support Services:
3 Year Economy Plan PADB3YR [970-0762][970-6330][981-8379][984-2797][984-2798] 29

(several no-cost options not listed)

The Quadro NVS 285 is a more powerful card than the 7300 GT in the Mac Pro. If you want more video RAM, get a 256 MiB 7300 GT for $85 at Newegg (or a 512 MiB one for $99). Jacking the Dell's price by adding a Quadro FX3450 isn't legit.

Also, I priced a PW390 (single socket) with a 2.66 quad-core QX6700 and similar configuration, and got $2689. This system also uses standard DDR memory (not FB-DIMM), so even with 4 GiB of ECC RAM it's only $3119. (With 4 GiB of RAM and Applecare the Mac Pro is $3477.)

 

[Lucy Brown]

As one who waited and waited and then waited some more... I'm not exactly sure what to do other than wait for even more.

I was in fear of this happening. The 8-core is great for professional workstation users. It is awesome that Apple are the first to get a 3GHz quad-core chip too. Finally we can say that Apple really does have the fastest chips hands down! BUT...

... what to do now..? Having waited so long I feel that the purchase of an 8 month old configuration is a rapidly less enticing prospect... My hope is that this mac pro is not viewed by Apple as an update but rather, as has been said before, an additional BTO that precedes new mac pros with SS and new GPUs with Leopard and iLife at WWDC.

Interesting, I can see that. Offer this as a BTO to get rid of some more mac pros (sales have been declining) before the new mac pro comes out. Makes sense. I'm tired of waiting. I was going to take the plunge in July but I think I'm going to wait even more. I'll lose my mind if a couple of months later they come out with a new case, gfx card option etc.

 

[AidenShaw]

slightly better performance, but not required

You sure aout that? If you're correct, then a 3GB config is not possible. My understanding is you have to add pairs, i.e., 21512, 2X1GB, 2X2GB.

You can add in pairs (obviously, since the 1 GiB standard model has two FB-DIMMs ).

Best performance comes from 4 FB-DIMMs of the same size. 6 and 8 FB-DIMMs can be slightly slower than 4 (although having more memory usually offsets having slightly slower memory). In other words, 4 GiB in four 1 GiB FB-DIMMs is better than 4 GiB in eight 512 MiB FB-DIMMs.

 

[gnasher729]

Thank you, that is what I'm looking for. Do you know if it is in 10.5? I can't imagine the answer is no.

Windows needs that especially for AMD machines where some programs have problems running on two different processors and need to be restricted to stay on the same processor or even the same core.

For performance, mostly you don't need any programming interface, Apple just needs to avoid moving threads to different cores without good reason, especially to different cores on different chips.