8-Core Mac Pros have arrived.

[downset]

in reply to the whole wich config compares best, at least everyone can agree that in no way the macpro is more expensive than a compareble pc, let alone stupid comment like i can get a pc for 1/3

most people here would even buy an overpriced mac just to run os X like most of us have done for many years, so now that our hardware is just as cheap or even cheaper depending on how you compare why complain about price?

even if i only ran windows XP i would still get a mac pro since its not more expensive and has great design

 

[AidenShaw]

even if i only ran windows XP i would still get a mac pro since its not more expensive and has great design

We've thought about that as well - since some of the Mac Pro configurations can be cheaper than our usual supplier.

However, the idea of depending on Apple for timely driver and firmware updates to support our Windows machines quickly kills the idea.

How long has it taken Apple to get iTunes working on Vista? Beta 1, Beta 2, RC 1, RC 2, November corporate release, January consumer release.... And it still isn't supported!

Lots of big problems discussed in the Apple Releases Boot Camp 1.2 with Vista Support thread.

Go to Apple for support with my Longhorn Server testing? ROTFLOL

 

[downset]

However, the idea of depending on Apple for timely driver and firmware updates to support our Windows machines quickly kills the idea.

ok fair enough, im not a windows user profesionaly, so i dont depend on it,
i only use it to run eac en xbox backupcreator at home i used to have a pc for just that, now my macpro does this in bootcamp

 

[Jarcrew]

I think that once we're a few Boot Camps down the road, these are definitely going to seem more and more viable to pro Windows customers.

 

[AidenShaw]

I think that once we're a few Boot Camps down the road, these are definitely going to seem more and more viable to pro Windows customers.

Not really, then the question is "will Apple support the Rev A systems with needed new firmware?".

Plus, we have several versions of Linux and Solaris that we also run on these systems. We need vanilla, supported hardware.

 

[motulist]

This is about the best reply I've seen to the "when to buy" and "should I wait" questions.

Thumbs up.

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! I was afraid that no one would even see it given that it's buried on the 14th page of comments. And that descion making process holds true not just for buying decisions, but for most questions you have in life - What choice leads to the best result from the point where I'm at now?

 

[Rocketman]

affinity

The basics

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-affinity.html

Geek warning

http://www.ussg.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/0207.2/0041.html

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-smp/2007-February/001331.html

I suppose if you cared about this topic you could google it and emphasize BSD newsgroups.

Bottom line: Apple has to continue to update the kernel and all the associated helper apps so end user apps have the proper playground to function in a heavy MP world. Those of us without Leopard NDA's feel that is what is coming "soon now"

Rocketman

And official Intel blessed stuff:

http://www.intel.com/cd/software/products/asmo-na/eng/227389.htm?cid=cim:ggl|spd_us_mactools|k56CA|c

 

[Redneck1089]

If I purchase one of these Mac Pros with a standard GPU, will I be able to update later by purchasing a DX 10 GPU when they eventually come out?


I should be able to install an Windows GPU for when I am running windows, should I not?

 

[MrTed]

So what will happen next concerning the macpro line ?

I think the next step will be june where we will see cheaper octo macpro
and the bottom line will be quad macpro.
But I'm afraid we will have to wait August or september for a fresh redesigned and more powerful desktop line.

 

[notjustjay]

TIn addition, what other facets of ones lives are planned or acted upon what "might" happen in the next 6 months? If you want it, and need it, buy it.

If you're not in the market at the time, or can't afford one anyway, there's no room to complain about it because you can't buy it anyway.

Definitely true on a need-it basis. I don't think you'll find many graphics professionals with a pad of paper and a box of crayons because, golly, the next new thing is just a few months away.

But most of us are on a "want" basis, and that's where there is wiggle room and some ambiguity. Sure, I could use a faster computer. It might even make business sense if I can quantify the speed increase and count it as money saved. If my computer breaks tonight, I will be in the market tomorrow -- I have to be. Anything short of that, and there's room to wait.

 

[matticus008]

Who actually uses the keyboard/mouse that comes in the package? I always upgrade to much better stuff anyway.

If the package comes with decent stuff, people tend to use it. I see most Mac Pros using the stock keyboard/mouse. I rarely see the more expensive Dells using them, because Dell sticks the same crap in them that they do in their cheap machines.

"Comparable" is in the eye of the beholder. If two systems both have the features that you need, they're comparable even if one has a bunch of stuff that you don't care about.

That's not really worthy of a public exercise, then. If you aren't going to compare all aspects and features of the machine, then it's not an apt comparison, because you are prejudging the importance of particular features and producing an uneven comparison.

It's really a matter of "comparable specification" vs. "comparable value" and only the value part is subjective. In particular, the CPU can make a massive difference. If someone is satisfied with 1.86GHz cores, the 3.0GHz cores of the Mac Pro are going to be $1500+ of wasted money. But the machines wouldn't be comparable in sense that they should be fully interchangeable for any task.

The implied point you make, which is absolutely correct, is that there are other vendors offering more freedom to get exactly what you want without paying for parts you don't want. But this, quite simply, is an intrinsic feature of a mass-market system. People don't make things themselves and they don't pay for custom runs (designing a complete custom system would cost more than just dealing with the "useless" parts anyway).

How long has it taken Apple to get iTunes working on Vista? Beta 1, Beta 2, RC 1, RC 2, November corporate release, January consumer release.... And it still isn't supported!

Worked perfectly for me right through RC2. Only the RTM release killed it. The clock is still running on Microsoft getting Office to run properly on Intel Macs. iTunes works fine for the most part under Vista, they just choose not to support it.

Go to Apple for support with my Longhorn Server testing? ROTFLOL

Go to Microsoft for it or the component manufacturer. I can't think of any system components which actually rely on Apple to supply drivers on the Mac Pro (maybe the Airport card, but even that is a Netgear, I believe). They're all pretty standard, so you don't have to wait for Apple to do anything.

 

[AidenShaw]

Go to Microsoft for it or the component manufacturer. I can't think of any system components which actually rely on Apple to supply drivers on the Mac Pro (maybe the Airport card, but even that is a Netgear, I believe). They're all pretty standard, so you don't have to wait for Apple to do anything.

Motherboard firmware, for starters. Even if Apple is only integrating other parts, interactions can occur.

I'll plug a 20 Gbps InfiniBand card and a dual 4 Gbps FibreChannel card in the box, and run Suse or Solaris. Will Apple help debug if the combination runs fine on an HP and IBM system, but fails on an Apple?

 

[Anonymous Freak]

How long has it taken Apple to get iTunes working on Vista? Beta 1, Beta 2, RC 1, RC 2, November corporate release, January consumer release.... And it still isn't supported!

It is supported.

The one 'serious' issue (ejecting an iPod) was fixed with a Vista update from Microsoft.

Vista is 100% 'supported'. The 64-bit editions aren't, but iTunes does actually work on them; Apple just won't give you any support with it.

edit: I just called 1-800-SOS-APPL to ask about getting my son's iPod working on Vista Home Premium 32-bit (a false premise, as it was already working just fine, but I wanted to find out if they would help,) and the tech was more than willing to try to troubleshoot iTunes on Vista with me. He did warn me about the manual eject issue, apparently he didn't know that MS had already fixed it.

 

[digitalbiker]

If the package comes with decent stuff, people tend to use it. I see most Mac Pros using the stock keyboard/mouse. I rarely see the more expensive Dells using them, because Dell sticks the same crap in them that they do in their cheap machines.

This is just the opposite of what I have seen.

If you go to the Apple store and read the Apple User hardware reviews for the Mac Keyboard, a majority report the keyboard as cheap, flimsy, easily broken, and not worth buying.

However the highend Dell System keyboards and mice are rated extremely high by Dell users. At my office the majority of these keyboards have held up extremely well.

Personally I like Apple products because of OS X and hardware design features. But Dell produces some excellent durable hardware for the price point.

 

[digitalbiker]

Vista is 100% 'supported. The 64-bit editions aren't, but iTunes does actually work on them; Apple just won't give you any support with it.

Any idea why Apple doesn't support the 64 bit versions of Vista? They also don't support the 64bit version of Vista for Boot Camp either.

I was just wondering if this might go away when Leopard is released or is this an Apple decision not to support any 64 bit Windows products.

 

[matticus008]

Motherboard firmware, for starters. Even if Apple is only integrating other parts, interactions can occur.

Firmware causing problems with peripherals is not so common. As long as you're using supported hardware, you shouldn't encounter a problem requiring firmware to fix--just like any other manufacturer. And just like any other manufacturer, they're not going to fix that rare problem for you unless there are a lot of vocal affected users.

I'll plug a 20 Gbps InfiniBand card and a dual 4 Gbps FibreChannel card in the box, and run Suse or Solaris. Will Apple help debug if the combination runs fine on an HP and IBM system, but fails on an Apple?

Not if you have a software problem, and probably not if the hardware you selected doesn't have OS X support and you're not a big enough fish to have a premium support arrangement. I'm not saying you should use a Mac Pro in this environment, but you shouldn't need Apple's support for anything other than broken hardware if you're not using Apple software. If there is a fundamental chipset issue, Intel would probably be able to confirm that at least to identify the nature of the problem.

 

[3D-Troll]

If I purchase one of these Mac Pros with a standard GPU, will I be able to update later by purchasing a DX 10 GPU when they eventually come out?


I should be able to install an Windows GPU for when I am running windows, should I not?

No. I got a Mac Pro with four 7300GT and for testing purposes put in a Quadro FX 4500 I took out of a Dell. The machine would not display anything once you got it booted into OS X. Under Windows XP the graphic card showed up correctly and was usable. You need a card that is updated for the Mac if you want to use it under OS X.

Steffen

 

[AidenShaw]

It is supported.

Vista is not listed on the download page http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/...

Windows Requirements

• Windows 2000 Service Pack 4 or later or Windows XP
• 500 MHz Pentium class processor or better

Your page says that it mostly works with some remaining issues isn't "support".

When the download page says Vista is acceptable, then we can call it supported.

Trying asking for a refund for your iPod because it has problems with Vista, and see how quickly they send you the money

 

[AidenShaw]

Firmware causing problems with peripherals is not so common. As long as you're using supported hardware, you shouldn't encounter a problem requiring firmware to fix--just like any other manufacturer.

Very idealistic stance - but in the real world problems can and do occur.

You realize that an InfiniBand card can emulate a SCSI card to the BIOS so that it can boot from the InfiniBand? Same with FC - simply disable the internal disks as boot devices, and tell the BIOS to boot from the fabric.

You want me to believe that the Apple will "just work" booting Solaris over BIOS level SCSI emulation, and that I shouldn't worry about support?

I don't buy it.

 

[matticus008]

If you go to the Apple store and read the Apple User hardware reviews for the Mac Keyboard, a majority report the keyboard as cheap, flimsy, easily broken, and not worth buying.

That's a gross mischaracterization if ever I saw one. Three and a half stars out of five based on 291 reviews doesn't echo that sentiment.

The Apple keyboard is not exceptional, but for system bundling, it's certainly above average. The majority of problems are ones of keyboard feel, which is somewhat distinctive on Apple keyboards. Some find it too soft, while others love it. You'll find the same love-it-or-hate-it response on all "smooth action" keyboards. In any case, I found very few reviews labeling it "flimsy," even after sorting by one-star reviews.

However the highend Dell System keyboards and mice are rated extremely high by Dell users. At my office the majority of these keyboards have held up extremely well.

The QuietKey keyboard that ships with most of their systems doesn't even appear to be reviewed. The USB keyboard that comes with certain Optiplex and Dimensions systems (thin bezel) is rated four stars out of 5. With 22 reviews, that is not statistically different from the Apple keyboard.

I have used the slim bezel keyboard, and it's a decent keyboard. It's not the QuietKey, though, which is a beyond-cheap piece of plastic. It's so bad that Dell doesn't even sell it separately, and it's the keyboard that comes with the Dell Precision 690 and most of their product line.

But Dell produces some excellent durable hardware for the price point.

Durable and Dell don't go together until you get into their middle range, at which point they're simply par for the course in quality terms.

 

[digitalbiker]

That's a gross mischaracterization if ever I saw one. Three and a half stars out of five based on 291 reviews doesn't echo that sentiment.

Wierd!

I was just looking at the Apple keyboard review 2 days ago and it only showed 57 reviews, 2 stars out of 5.

I read the first ten or so and most all complained about stickiness and broken space bars, and other easily damaged keys. I was looking because I was wondering about the cost for a wired keyboard if the BT keyboard had problems under Boot Camp and Linux.

However I see that you are correct today it shows 291 reviews and 3.5 out of 5 stars. Must have been a glitch in the web page that day or I wasn't looking at what I thought. Sorry!

My only experience with Dell has been with the high end Precision Workstations and the Latitude / Inspiron line of hardware. I really haven't had anything to complain about. They have always been solid performers, durable, high quality at a reasonable price. Customer support was excellent. I even had on-site repair within 1 day of calling, fixed the next afternoon.

 

[Redneck1089]

No. I got a Mac Pro with four 7300GT and for testing purposes put in a Quadro FX 4500 I took out of a Dell. The machine would not display anything once you got it booted into OS X. Under Windows XP the graphic card showed up correctly and was usable. You need a card that is updated for the Mac if you want to use it under OS X.

Steffen

Okay, that's what I was wondering. I am thinking about getting a so so GPU for the build to order option and then spending some real money on a Windows GPU for gaming in Windows.


There's nothing going to stop me from putting a DX 10 GPU in there, is there?

 

[exabytes18]

There's nothing going to stop me from putting a DX 10 GPU in there, is there?

Driver support I guess. It took them long enough to prepare the Vista drivers.

 

[GanleyBurger]

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it! I was afraid that no one would even see it given that it's buried on the 14th page of comments. And that descion making process holds true not just for buying decisions, but for most questions you have in life - What choice leads to the best result from the point where I'm at now?

Yes... However...

It seems that a lot of us have been waiting for big huge product line releases... across the board. From MacMini's to imacs, Mac Pros to MacBook Pros, displays to hardware options to designs.... Not to mention Leopard, etc.

I agree... great advice above, etc. However, it seems foolish to drop $3200 on a new MBP or top of the line 24" imac if the Apple product line will be refreshed in June (8 to 10 Tuesdays????).

 

[matticus008]

However I see that you are correct today it shows 291 reviews and 3.5 out of 5 stars. Must have been a glitch in the web page that day or I wasn't looking at what I thought. Sorry!

No problem! With all the hundreds of products and sixty-four links on every product description page, it's easy to wind up somewhere strange.

My only experience with Dell has been with the high end Precision Workstations and the Latitude / Inspiron line of hardware. I really haven't had anything to complain about. They have always been solid performers, durable, high quality at a reasonable price. Customer support was excellent. I even had on-site repair within 1 day of calling, fixed the next afternoon.

Absolutely, I agree. As long as you don't scrape the bottom of the barrel, most of the surviving vendors (Dell included) provide a pretty good product these days. If only the people who make toasters would deliver a product that worked as well.