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8GB RAM in M3 MacBook Pro Proves the Bottleneck in Real-World Tests
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I think the problem was they'd have been undercutting the Air pricing if they did that, when you factor in how expensive the 15" Air gets when specced with sensible amounts of RAM and storage.
I feel like my IQ has slightly diminished as a result of engaging in this "debate"
65 pages of comments later, I still don’t understand why an 8GB RAM option shouldn’t exist, even if it were cheaper than it currently is, or cost less to upgrade to 16GB…
We did not say it should not exist. The argument is with regards to prices on the MacBook Pro (not about displays, not about the MacBook Air, not about whether it's enough for the everyday grandma, nor any of these other things. It is with regards to prices on a $1600 computer, that's it.)
We can't engage in a fair debate if one side continues to misrepresent what the other side actually stands for.
Very true! No one is going to convince anyone of anything, and almost everyone is going to go away feeling that everyone with a contrary opinion must be mad. 😅
I didn’t say you argued that, but many at the beginning of this debate did make that argument. I even asked them, what if it were cheaper?, and their response was that a Pro laptop shouldn’t have an 8GB configuration option, and that’s what the MacBook Air was for.
I don’t think you’re mad, for whatever that’s worth. I just disagree with you on some things, that’s all. 👍🏻
I think at this point, my opinion is that there is still a place for an 8GB RAM configuration, because it’s plenty for lots of people, and I also think that the $200 RAM upgrade pricing isn’t that unreasonable. Would I be opposed to cheaper RAM upgrade prices? Of course not, I’m always up for a deal and saving money. I just don’t know if that would be practical or not. But I tend toward base spec models of devices, so having 16GB as the base spec at the same price point as the 8GB currently is wouldn’t hurt me, even though I’ve used 8GB systems and know that 16GB will probably be overkill. Though I’m pretty sure that if the base spec is upped, so will be the price, which is generally what happens as far as I can tell.
Yeah true.
Fair, I actually think the 15 inch Air was a bad idea. Should've positioned this entry level pro between the M2 13 inch Air and the 14 and 16 Pro/Max MBPs.
And as I said you're comparing a 16 to 32G upgrade to an Apple 8 to 16G upgrade -- that cannot be compared and say that the Thinkpad is higher -- it just doesn't make sense. If you do a real comparison, the Apple upgrade from 8 to 16 costs $200, and the thinkpad already comes with 16G, so the thinkpad upgrade is $0. So the Apple is $200 more.
I said I didn’t want to compare the ThinkPad, someone insisted I did, and I think it was you. I already said I don’t consider them to even be in the same league, and I said a comparison between the two wouldn’t really be fair. The display on that X1 Carbon is just atrocious. For the amount you pay for it (normally about double what the entry level MacBook Pro costs), it should be so much better than it is. What you’re ignoring is that the normal price for that 16GB model is waaaay higher than the cost of the entry level MacBook Pro. I can spec up a MacBook Pro quite nicely and still come out cheaper. So by the logic you just used, the MacBook Pros upgrade is actually $0. In fact, lots of MacBook Pro RAM upgrades are $0 until you get to the same normal asking price for that 16GB ThinkPad X1 Carbon. If ThinkPad would have offered me a 8GB to 16GB upgrade option, I would have compared that. But they didn’t. And really, the issue with the ThinkPad is the normal asking price to begin with. It should have much better hardware at that price-point, because that display is atrocious for a $3,000+ laptop. Like I said, I can spec up a MacBook Pro quite nicely for that price tag, and it would be much better, better display, better sound system, better keyboard, better CPU, better RAM, better battery runtime, you get the picture, pretty much just better in every way.
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No, I don't believe so, but whatever. You're comparison is just plain flawed though, they are not equivalent upgrades, and it can't be said that the thinkpad upgrade costs more, that is if you want any truth in it.
Lets see, entry level mackbook Pro: $1599 with only 8G of RAM. Entry level Thinkpad X1 with 16G of RAM: $1078.99. How in heck is that more. 1599>1079 ever and always. If you're talking about the Est. Value, that is NEVER the price they charge, it's just some text to make you think you're getting a better than normal price. And that $1599 *is* the price Apple charges. Est. value doesn't even say price or MSRP, or anything else, and just what in heck do you think estimated value means in a price anyway.
I think we should agree to disagree, I can't take these loose comparisons any more, it's just not the way things are.
65 pages of comments, what are we learning?
M3 MBP 14" 8GB exists to replace the 13" and say goodbye to the touchbar to streamline supply chain. They sure don't act like they owe the consumer any favors with a RAM upgrade.
M3 MBP 14" 8GB exists to replace the 13" and say goodbye to the touchbar to streamline supply chain. They sure don't act like they owe the consumer any favors with a RAM upgrade.
I said that it’s more expensive than the upgrade people have spent 65 pages whining about. You know, the $200 one? 240>200. That’s just a fact.
I’m talking about the one I compared with the 32GB version which I linked. And yes, the Black Friday deal doesn’t count as normal price, it just doesn’t. I have to go based on the price they say it normally costs, that they’re saying “save x amount of money” about. And that price is way higher than the base spec MacBook Pro. The price they say is 50 some-odd percent off clearly isn’t the normal price. Again, people keep trying to say “but oh, they go on sale often, so you should use the sale prices when comparing”, but that’s not a fair comparison. You have to compare normal price.
And even if we humor you and assume that your preferred Black Friday deal price is “normal”, it’s still unacceptably expensive for such atrocious specs. The MacBook Air clobbers that thing easily. But as I already explained, we don’t compare Black Friday deal pricing against normal pricing on other computers, that’s not a fair comparison, and you should know that…
And I agree, we should agree to disagree. I can’t take this much gaslighting about Black Friday deals being normal pricing, and all this other stuff. I’ve produced many examples of Windows PCs that charge the same or more for RAM upgrades as Apple does. Many of them are actually pretty popular Windows PCs. But apparently that doesn’t matter to you. Instead, you’re trying to nitpick this ThinkPad comparison I said I didn’t want to make because I don’t consider them in the same league.
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But it's a totally uneven comparison, one is for 8G, the other is for 16G and a starting point of 8G higher -- it's a stupid comparison and definitely does not support what you are sating and never will.
Bye.
People are missing the point. This new MacBook Pro is just a glorified MacBook Air. Yes, it is called a MacBook Pro but DOES NOT have a Pro chip. Also, these types of benchmarks and software are simply crazy. This is not a Pro chip!
I agree. I think Apple needs to change the name on the laptops with Pro and Max chips from MacBook Pro to MacBook Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious!
If the M3, M3 Pro and M3 Max were called i5, i7 and i9, no way would Apple get away with putting the base chip in a laptop this pricey. Single core performance is so good that we're giving them a pass for including a $40 iPad chip in a device they charge over $2,000 for in most countries.
And it’s also a comparison I said wouldn’t be a good one, and it’s a comparison I was left with due to the ThinkPad X1 Carbon not offering an 8GB option. As I said, if they did, I’d compare it. And, again, you’re hyper focused on this particular comparison that wasn’t even my idea to make, when I’ve compared many other Windows laptops that are the same or more expensive for the same size RAM upgrades.
@bobcomer This is what I said earlier in this discussion about comparing the ThinkPad against the MacBook Pro. I’ve never claimed this comparison is comparing like to like, from the start I said it wouldn’t provide good results because they’re not very comparable spec-wise. And again, I think the bigger issue here is the price point Lenovo is asking for this ThinkPad, which is far higher than the MacBook Pro, even though the hardware specs don’t match that price tag.
I think it is unfair to compare a family of chips (M3) with totally different generations of chips (intel i's). If you compare the i5 (or even i7) with the base M1, you find very affordable yet powerful machines!
The point I was making was that they're names that designate whether the device is:
Mid tier
High end
Extreme high end
You wouldn't expect a lower class of chip in a £1,700 computer that is also found in tablets that cost about 1/3 as much and require no active cooling.
I understand. This is why I say this base M3 MacBook Pro is just a glorified MacBook Air (with active cooling and a better screen). But people need to remember that the M3 is NOT a Pro chip!