8GB RAM is not for coding!

[apparatchik]

If you think coding "is the most lightweight task you can perform on a computer.". I suspect you haven't done much coding. You certainly haven't tried to build a large C++ project.

Its true that Sublime is a very light weight editor but the popular VS Code certainly is not. Neither are all the other Electron apps developers often use (e.g. Slack). Then if you are doing web development you probably need Chrome.
The well regarded JetBrains IDEs can use several gig. I have seen large C++ projects in CLion use over 8GB of RAM and that is just the IDE.

Then there are virtual machines and local Kubernetes clusters. They aren't exactly economical with RAM.

You’re exactly right, I was just emphasizing how “coding” can mean anything, from pushing commits to a remote from a vim/git combination all the way to what you describe.

I’ll add to the developing scenario that besides slack nowadays you might also have to switch between meetings from zoom to ms teams to google meet.

This all eats into RAM of course. Some apparently also like to run antivirus software on their Macs while “developing”, no wonder RAM disappears like a cup of water in the Sahara.

 

[EightBitJoe]

Well to be fair, Python is a scripting language and can run on machines much less powerful than any modern Mac (e.g. Raspberry Pie) and fast compilation was a design goal of the Go language designers. C is a fairly lightweight language too.

Yes which I do believe backs up my point. LOL

 

[iHorseHead]

Yeah I can hold my breath for four minutes too, but do I recommend it?

Yes, it runs pretty well.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Honestly, sometimes I wonder what y'all 're bitchin' about.

I started my programming career writing, compiling and running a Fortran program on a 64 kbyte RAM(yes, that's 65,536 bytes, I counted each and every one of them) 8 bit CPU running at 4 MHz to simulate a live population of 30,000 fish.

You guys have never had it so easy...

 

[iHorseHead]

Honestly, sometimes I wonder what y'all 're bitchin' about.

I started my programming career writing, compiling and running a Fortran program on a 64 kbyte RAM(yes, that's 65,536 bytes, I counted each and every one of them) 8 bit CPU running at 4 MHz to simulate a live population of 30,000 fish.

You guys have never had it so easy...

I love you. Do you know 6502 assembly language?

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

I love you. Do you know 6502 assembly language?

No, I was an 8080 guy. I wrote one (1) program in machine language (not assembly, machine). A 5 byte application that made the bell beep.

Same as I wrote one program in Cobol. Never touched it again.

 

[TopherMan12]

newbies... new term - rest api. Old folks. what.Oh just normal post ,get.
- dependency injection .Oh just inherit class. normal oop long time ago
m

Well.....I'm one of those "old folks" so I did my time parsing out form data from posts and query strings from gets. The way rest apis bridge the gap between HTTP and OOP by serializing/deserializing data into/from json/objects is pretty awesome.

 

[leman]

Honestly, sometimes I wonder what y'all 're bitchin' about.

I started my programming career writing, compiling and running a Fortran program on a 64 kbyte RAM(yes, that's 65,536 bytes, I counted each and every one of them) 8 bit CPU running at 4 MHz to simulate a live population of 30,000 fish.

You guys have never had it so easy...

Ahaha, now you make me nostalgic. My first hand-on experience as a kid was a ZX Spectrum. I still fondly remember typing in all that machine code per hand. Fun times.

 

[Toutou]

The way rest apis bridge the gap between HTTP and OOP by serializing/deserializing data into/from json/objects is pretty awesome.

I'd just like to point out that REST is basically an architecture, a set of guidelines on how to design APIs and clients for those APIs. Requests to a RESTful API can use whatever content-type is convenient, be it x-www-form-urlencoded, XML or JSON and the payloads can but don't have to 1:1 represent instances of objects (if an OO language is involved).

So what you're praising is actually the way we mostly design APIs today and the helpful frameworks we use. Funnily, most today's "REST" APIs aren't really RESTful as defined in the original paper.

 

[TopherMan12]

I'd just like to point out that REST is basically an architecture, a set of guidelines on how to design APIs and clients for those APIs. Requests to a RESTful API can use whatever content-type is convenient, be it x-www-form-urlencoded, XML or JSON and the payloads can but don't have to 1:1 represent instances of objects (if an OO language is involved).

So what you're praising is actually the way we mostly design API todays and the helpful frameworks we use. Funnily, most today's "REST" APIs aren't really RESTful as defined in the original paper.

Correct, I'm talking about Rest APIs in their application. Very useful tool. Combine REST APIs along with client-side frameworks and two-way data binding and we talking about a ton of work where objects or arrays of objects are passed from data layer to service to client and back again whereas I distinctly remembering having to deal with individual web form controls separately a few years ago. I don't know anything about the original paper, but as REST has been applied has made my job a lot easier.

 

[erich.j.k]

IMHO people that use Wordpress aren’t real developers

While this is your „opinion“, it is a very questionable one. What exactly is a „real developer“?

The OP isn‘t all wrong. On the other hand, why would you buy an 8GB machine if you know you constantly need more RAM than that?! I haven‘t bought the M1 for that exact reason.
I use several docker containers during my development process and know I need more than 16GB. So I‘ll wait til Apple offers an machine with a Mxx and 32GB of memory.
I don‘t want it to constantly swap even if it does that at a blazing speed.

 

[TopherMan12]

While this is your „opinion“, it is a very questionable one. What exactly is a „real developer“?

The OP isn‘t all wrong. On the other hand, why would you buy an 8GB machine if you know you constantly need more RAM than that?! I haven‘t bought the M1 for that exact reason.
I use several docker containers during my development process and know I need more than 16GB. So I‘ll wait til Apple offers an machine with a Mxx and 32GB of memory.
I don‘t want it to constantly swap even if it does that at a blazing speed.

I returned a 8GB Pro in favor of a 16GB Air as I was seeing a lot of swap file usage and memory pressure was in the yellow a lot of times. 16GB seems to be the sweet spot for me. Regardless better to have too much RAM than not enough.

 

[ADGrant]

No, I was an 8080 guy. I wrote one (1) program in machine language (not assembly, machine). A 5 byte application that made the bell beep.

Same as I wrote one program in Cobol. Never touched it again.

I wrote some trivial 6502 assembler programs for my Commodore 64, it was fun. I worked on a much more significant 8086 project, disassembling a large commercial IBM PC application and patching it so it could run on a non-IBM compatible computer running Concurrent DOS. Not quite as much fun.

 

[alien3dx]

I'd just like to point out that REST is basically an architecture, a set of guidelines on how to design APIs and clients for those APIs. Requests to a RESTful API can use whatever content-type is convenient, be it x-www-form-urlencoded, XML or JSON and the payloads can but don't have to 1:1 represent instances of objects (if an OO language is involved).

So what you're praising is actually the way we mostly design API todays and the helpful frameworks we use. Funnily, most today's "REST" APIs aren't really RESTful as defined in the original paper.

hehe . tell to newbies nobody use put /delete. Before json , we goat soap,xml and all those weird term"web services". Not sure also what consider restful in original paper.

As per topic , running a webserver on 8 gb box with all those webservice, microservice or webserver should be awful a lot. The problem youngster are rely on stackoverflow and open dungeon of tab chrome , on spotify/apple music , chatroom , drag hogger ide java with webserver.

 

[JMacHack]

Sadly, Nano is a bad attempt at a re-invention of WordStar in text editing mode. There are many, many editors that are way, way, way better than Nano -- BBEdit, Geany, Gedit, Atom, even the humble Vi.

If I want to use WordStar I will call up a CP/M emulator and run WordStar.

Nano is the Trabant equivalent of a text editor...

I’m aware, I made the post purposely tongue in cheek

 

[za9ra22]

Honestly, sometimes I wonder what y'all 're bitchin' about.

I started my programming career writing, compiling and running a Fortran program on a 64 kbyte RAM(yes, that's 65,536 bytes, I counted each and every one of them) 8 bit CPU running at 4 MHz to simulate a live population of 30,000 fish.

You guys have never had it so easy...

64k?! You were lucky - I had just 16k.

These guys arguing over 8Gb.... sheesh!

 

[plinden]

Honestly, sometimes I wonder what y'all 're bitchin' about.

I started my programming career writing, compiling and running a Fortran program on a 64 kbyte RAM(yes, that's 65,536 bytes, I counted each and every one of them) 8 bit CPU running at 4 MHz to simulate a live population of 30,000 fish.

You guys have never had it so easy...

You had it so easy. I started programming in high school on a 16KB, 1MHz, microcomputer - this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oric

One of the first programs I wrote was a Solitaire game in BASIC.

Do you know 6502 assembly language?

Why, yes I do, or did. Some of you might remember computer magazines and the listings people sent in. We'd spend hours typing them in. One of the games I typed in was a Caterpillar game, with movement controlled by the arrow keys. It was unplayable because of the slow response from the BASIC.

I re-wrote the arrow key control code using 6502 assembly. I couldn't afford an assembler program so I wrote it out by hand, converted to hex, and added it to a subroutine that poked the hex code directly into the correct memory locations. It made the game playable. I reused that code on a lot of the games I typed in from magazines.

I also wrote a program that displayed a spinning 3D globe - just a blank globe with lines of latitude moving across it. The computer wasn't fast enough to compute the lines of latitude in real time, so I computed 10 frames separately and typed the values for each frame into a program. The program cycled through the frames swapping them in and out of the video memory. Pretty useless, but close to the standard of some of the graphics you'd see in SF movies of the time.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I can only speak with my experience... But running Windows 10 Pro with VS 2019 Pro and 2 instances of our 200k+ file application - Windows 10 Pro consumes about 8-9GB of ram. I give Parallels about 7512MB of Ram for Windows.

This means, on my work provided 2019 MBP 15' with 16GB of ram, I'm usually hitting yellow memory pressure (I have Teams, OneDrive, OneNote, Word, Excel, 15+ safari tabs up, and usually a Webex going).

I recently tried out Windows 10 Arm on my M1 MBP (16GB ram), did the same setup above, and was surprised to see the memory pressure at 20%. What was weird was, despite only giving Windows 8GB of ram in Parallels, Activity Monitor showed Parallels consuming 16-18GB of ram. Windows 10 Arm ran very well, ran VS 2019 Pro a little slower than I'd like, and the 2 instances of our app - too slow for normal use - but I did get them running - important note, memory pressure was <20%.

I realize Windows 10 Arm != Windows 10 Pro but ... I did the same thing on both and one was yellow memory pressure, the other was <20%.

<shrug>. There's something about how the M1 deals with Ram that is very different than the Intel MBP.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

I started my programming career writing, compiling and running a Fortran program on a 64 kbyte RAM(yes, that's 65,536 bytes, I counted each and every one of them) 8 bit CPU running at 4 MHz to simulate a live population of 30,000 fish.

4MHz?!? You hipsters with your super fast computers! We didn't have 4MHz back then.

I'm still using some 6502 assembly every now and then... whenever I decide it's time for a new side project writing another NES emulator. No idea why I keep doing that, simple system, not much thinking involved, I find it very relaxing.

 

[BigMcGuire]

4MHz?!? You hipsters with your super fast computers! We didn't have 4MHz back then.

I'm still using some 6502 assembly every now and then... whenever I decide it's time for a new side project writing another NES emulator. No idea why I keep doing that, simple system, not much thinking involved, I find it very relaxing.

Every programmer should take a class on assembly programming. It opened my eyes to what really goes on and all the work that's required to keep things efficient. I really enjoyed the class I took. Spending half an hour trying to get lights to light up in order vs a 2 min C++ program that could do the same. Just wow. lol. I' big on history so I get it isn't for everyone but I found it really fun.

 

[jdb8167]

Every programmer should take a class on assembly programming. It opened my eyes to what really goes on and all the work that's required to keep things efficient. I really enjoyed the class I took. Spending half an hour trying to get lights to light up in order vs a 2 min C++ program that could do the same. Just wow. lol. I' big on history so I get it isn't for everyone but I found it really fun.

Generally this is now “computer architecture”. A lot of younger programmers don’t have any knowledge of how an actual computer works but only know whatever virtual machine that they are currently working under. Anyone who makes their living writing software should know at least the basics of how the underlying computer actually works.

An anecdote. A very good programmer I worked with a few years ago asked what I thought about their taking an intermediate computer architecture course online. I looked at the course and because this programmer was pretty accomplished, I assumed that they knew the basics. But then I asked a couple of questions—notably, “do you know the difference between a register, cache, and RAM memory.” I got a blank stare. I was somewhat shocked. I did recommend a basic computer architecture course but I don’t know if they took me up on my suggestion.

 

[DaveFromCampbelltown]

Those who have replied to my previous post will have read this, but for all you young'uns out there, I command this piece --

Real Programmers don't use Pascal

There will be a test on Friday to see if you were paying attention...

 

[plinden]

Those who have replied to my previous post will have read this, but for all you young'uns out there, I command this piece --

Real Programmers don't use Pascal

There will be a test on Friday to see if you were paying attention...

I had to wait for college before I was exposed to FORTRAN (uppercase non-optional, screw Fortran 90).

We were allowed in the computer lab for an hour every week. The first 15 minutes of every computer lab was spent competing with a couple hundred other students for a connection to the VAX mainframe, patiently and repeatedly tapping the Return key on the terminals. If we were lucky, we could complete the program, run it, and print the results before the hour was up or the VAX dropped the connection, whatever came first.

 

[OnawaAfrica]

8gb wouldn’t be enough, regardless if you were on M1 or Intel.

This is exactly why the perception of Apple Silicon RAM somehow defying physics needs to end.

thats is wrong i even code on a 4gb ram maschine and i dont expericned lags. nayve u missmanage ur ram using many uneessesary Google Chrome Tabs. Everyone knows Chrome loves overusing Ram

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

thats is wrong i even code on a 4gb ram maschine and i dont expericned lags. nayve u missmanage ur ram using many uneessesary Google Chrome Tabs. Everyone knows Chrome loves overusing Ram

If you 'code' on a 4gb computer, then I can only assume you're not developing for modern hardware.

Either that, or you're a troll. I'm entertained by either one!