90nm 970's?

[BaghdadBob]

Originally posted by carletonmusic
The introduction of the 970s doesn't necessarily mean that all other processors will tank. The Dual 1.42 G4s haven't stopped people from buying iMacs and eMacs - depending on your need and $$$ situation, a G4 may be the "inexpensive alternative" (projecting 6 months into 970 arrivals.)

Yeah, but no one wants to spend a premium on something when they can spend the same amount of money on a computer that will be newer, shinier, and twice as fast in a few months.

And I have GOT to get out of the habit of responding to everything everyone says...sheesh... 🙄

 

[Snowy_River]

Re: I gotta hunch...

Originally posted by Fender2112
I got a hunch that the next thing we see will be the 15" Power Book with the 970.

I think other folks have made the same suggestion. Here are the things that point to this:

1) Steve says this is the year or the notebooks.
1.5) Steve also mentioned something about note books replacing the desktop Mac in the home.
2) We all feel confident that the 970 will be introduced at WWDC. Maybe before.
3) The systems shipping from Taiwan (or whereever it is) are reported to be single processor.
4) The 15" Power Book is overdue for an upgrade.

Summary: The mid level Power Book is due for an upgrade and the 970 is so close we can smell it. If the heat and power issues are resolved, why not introduce the 970 in a Power Book?

I will also suggest that the 15" PB, the mid level PB, will sport a 16:10 screen. This would give Apple's entire Power line, except the 12" PB, a 16:10 screen.

The catch is that once the 970 is released, regardless of the model, Apple will have to quickly upgrade all their products. The G3's and G4's will not sell well once the 970 comes out.

That's all there is and there is no more.

I really hope that this is true. However, I can also see that this rumor from MacB is in the range of being reasonable.

But I still say that, if Apple can get a first generation 970 (@ 130nm process) into a PowerBook, even if it's only running at 1GHz, I think that they should. The current PowerBooks are at the end of their rope, and I just don't see them being able to put a 1.25GHz G4 into them, given the heat output from the G4 and the small space constraints of the PowerBooks. So, that means that if we aren't going to see 970 base PowerBooks until January '04, then it will have effectively been 14 months since the last significant PowerBook update. That's horrid.

So, while I will acknowledge the plausibility of the MacB rumor, I also stand by the idea that a new update is due, and the G4 has no where to go. That leaves us with nothing but the 970 for the next update.

(Time since the last 15" PB update: six months. Time since the 12" and 17" were released: four months. Average time between updates: 146 days=about five months. => Therefore, in another month all three of the PowerBooks will be due for an update. How will they be updated, if not with the 970?)

BTW, why does the buying guide still say "Buy - Product recently updated" about the PowerBooks? Shouldn't it be, at least, "Neutral - Mid product cycle"?

 

[yzedf]

There is some truth to the AMD in Apple thing... there is a 333MHz AMD proc in the Airport Extreme base station.

As to heat issues... 130nm is cooler than 180nm, and 90nm is cooler than 130nm. Smaller size requires less power to run, which equates to less lost heat (40-60% of power put in is lost in heat transfer).

 

[macrumors12345]

Re: I gotta hunch...

Originally posted by Fender2112
I got a hunch that the next thing we see will be the 15" Power Book with the 970.

I got a hunch that you will be wrong.

Here are the things that point to this:

1) Never in the history of the world has a more powerful chip been introduced in a laptop *before* a chip of equivalent or greater power appeared in a desktop.
2) through 4) See 1).

Conceivably they could be announced simultaneously (towers and PBs, both with 970). But even that is quite unlikely. More likely the 970 will appear first in towers.

 

[arn]

Re: Re: I gotta hunch...

Originally posted by Snowy_River
BTW, why does the buying guide still say "Buy - Product recently updated" about the PowerBooks? Shouldn't it be, at least, "Neutral - Mid product cycle"?

You're right.. the powerbook has required some manual adjustments in the buyers guide recs...

I may have to seperate out the 12 and 17" powerbooks from the 15"

But it sort of depends on the next update. Apple might consolidate upgrades for them.

arn

 

[BlainKBanquier]

From the Bidouille article:
"The relationship between Apple and Motorola is so bad that every call Steve Jobs makes to Motorola ends up in a violent quarel. Therefore Steve prefers to cease the deal with Motorola during 2004's first trimester and work with IBM."

a) Are we to assume their 'mole' is in the hall when Mr. Jobs is yelling on the phone? Is this really how multinational multibillion-dollar corporate relationships work?

b) Trimester? Do the French use thirds instead of quarters to divide their fiscal year?

In any case, do we know when the Moto contract is up? Maybe at the end of the second quarter (US calendar)?

 

[Snowy_River]

Re: Re: I gotta hunch...

Originally posted by macrumors12345

Conceivably they could be announced simultaneously (towers and PBs, both with 970). But even that is quite unlikely. More likely the 970 will appear first in towers.

I hear this refrain over and over, but I have yet to hear one good argument for it. If Apple can put the 970 into the PowerBooks now, why wouldn't they? They have done so in the past (with the G3), and while the original G3 PowerBook (Kanga) was a somewhat crippled G3 machine, it was still a significant step forward from the 3400 series (believe me, I know).

The more that I think about it, the more it seems that Apple is going to have the choice of putting the 970 into the PowerBook some time soon, using the current crop of 970 chips, or they will have to leave the PowerBooks lagging with 1GHz G4s until the beginning of next year when the new 90nm 970 chips are available. That will be over a year since the PowerBooks were updated to run at 1GHz.

Now, I'll admit that there is a fair amount of hope in all of this. I'm in a position where I have to get a new computer within the next few months, and portability is important to me. I really don't want to get a new 15" 1GHz G4 ALBook a month from now, only to have a 1.6GHz 970 PowerBook come out six months later that completely blows the doors off the older models. Yes, I know that it's part of the nature of things, but still, I can hope for a nice next generation machine on a time table that suits me.

My own personal reasons not-with-standing, I do think that there are reasonable, logical arguments for why we will see the PB and PM released with the 970 at the same time, possibly at WWDC.

 

[stompy]

Re: Re: I gotta hunch...

Originally posted by Snowy_River


So, while I will acknowledge the plausibility of the MacB rumor, I also stand by the idea that a new update is due, and the G4 has no where to go. That leaves us with nothing but the 970 for the next update.

(Time since the last 15" PB update: six months. Time since the 12" and 17" were released: four months. Average time between updates: 146 days=about five months. => Therefore, in another month all three of the PowerBooks will be due for an update. How will they be updated, if not with the 970?)

I know everyone (especially Snowy_R) would rather see a PB 15" 970 sooner rather than later. (See quoted post below) "How will they be updated, if not with the 970?"

12" - 1 GHz?
15" Everything that the 17" PB currently has, except the 17" screen?"
17" - No update necessary. Apple has only recently filled backorders.

Originally posted by macrumors12345
I got a hunch that you will be wrong.

Here are the things that point to this:

1) Never in the history of the world has a more powerful chip been introduced in a laptop *before* a chip of equivalent or greater power appeared in a desktop.
2) through 4) See 1).

Conceivably they could be announced simultaneously (towers and PBs, both with 970). But even that is quite unlikely. More likely the 970 will appear first in towers.

Could not agree more.

 

[MacEyeDoc]

Never Before . . .

."

I got a hunch that you will be wrong.

Here are the things that point to this:

1) Never in the history of the world has a more powerful chip been introduced in a laptop *before* a chip of equivalent or greater power appeared in a desktop.
2) through 4) See 1).

Conceivably they could be announced simultaneously (towers and PBs, both with 970). But even that is quite unlikely. More likely the 970 will appear first in towers.

Your comment may make it MORE likely that the 970 will appear in the 15in PB first. Just think, Steve would love to say those words in front of an audience: "Never in the history of the world . . . until Apple announces today . .🙂

 

[Freg3000]

Re: Never Before . . .

Originally posted by MacEyeDoc
."

Your comment may make it MORE likely that the 970 will appear in the 15in PB first. Just think, Steve would love to say those words in front of an audience: "Never in the history of the world . . . until Apple announces today . .🙂

Good point. But then you totally kill Powermac sales. You would just buy a laptop if you want the most powerful machine. I think a dual release is more common than a PowerBook release.

 

[holy MAC!]

i think that we'll see the 970 in the summer (both pbook/ and pmacs) cuz if this is REALLY the "year of the notebook" then what's the point of introducing them at the end of the year..... then NEXT year would be "the year of the notebook"......

heck.. why can't it be "the year of APPLE" ?

 

[pilotgi]

That quote about the 90nm chips just doesn't make sense. The PPC 970 at 1.2 Ghz is already smaller and cooler than the 1 Ghz G4. And the increase in bus speed will more than make up for the modest clock speed increase.

So why would Apple need to wait until the end of the year for and even smaller chip for the Powerbook?

 

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
"First posts" are pointless and are not condoned on this forum. Please refrain from posting them, and report those who do.

must you always edit my post too?

We know the 970 is coming, but about the PowerBooks, PURE speculation, PURE 100% Grade A Speculation

Yes they are going to get the 970 AFTER the PowerMacs, thanks for stating the OBVIOUS! 🙄

 

[BaghdadBob]

Re: Re: Never Before . . .

Originally posted by Freg3000
Good point. But then you totally kill Powermac sales. You would just buy a laptop if you want the most powerful machine. I think a dual release is more common than a PowerBook release.

I'm going to weigh in on this one by asking:

1) How many powermacs is Apple selling right now anyway? Isn't the general consensus that they are overpriced and soon to be obsolete?

2) Yes, it would be highly unusual...but Apple is already considered to have some of the sweetest laptops out there. Why not just hammer in the point? Release a Powerbook with a sweet 17" (OK, and 15"...) screen that's faster than any desktop PC. I like it.

Shortly follow with the DP and WS 970s, and then iMacs. So what if sales of the towers are completely killed for a little while? Who's buying them? Let everyone save their pennies and then have a massive buying splurge of the 970 powermacs, which, by the way, will further entice SW companies to develop 970 native apps sooner since there will be less POWER USERS out there with G4s than there would have been if Apple had let people keep buying them blindly.

Just my thoughts. I also weighed in that I thought it was plausible for it to come out in the iMac first.

In any case, if it comes out in one it's going to hurt the sales of the other, so you just have to think which would be the best strategy.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by MrMacman
must you always edit my post too?

Why leave a quote of a part of a post that no longer exists? Removing references to it also prevents further dicussion.

Report it instead of quoting it and you won't get edited. 😉

 

[pilotgi]

More fuel for the fire

There's a post over at Spymac about "inside" info from IBM that says they have a 750FX (G3) with clock speeds up to 2 Ghz and a 400 Mhz bus. These chips also have Altivec.

Here is a link if anyone's interested.

 

[BaghdadBob]

Re: More fuel for the fire

Do they have an iMac that runs on love? Because I've been waiting for one of those.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Yes, hard drives produce more heat, but hard drive design can't be improved like processor design can. You improve what you can.

As for me, I'm starting college next fall, so I hope I can start with a 970-powered Book. If not, I'll be in a bind. Apple hopefully realizes that there are many of us in the same bind.

Bring on the 970Books at WWDC! It's not like it'll be hard...

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Oh, and the 970's going to be put in everything at once, like the G3 was. It's the Apple version of shock and awe...

 

[BlainKBanquier]

Re: More fuel for the fire

Originally posted by pilotgi
There's a post over at Spymac about "inside" info from IBM that says they have a 750FX (G3) with clock speeds up to 2 Ghz and a 400 Mhz bus. These chips also have Altivec.

Here is a link if anyone's interested.

It started here:
Here

 

[illumin8]

Re: More fuel for the fire

Originally posted by pilotgi
There's a post over at Spymac about "inside" info from IBM that says they have a 750FX (G3) with clock speeds up to 2 Ghz and a 400 Mhz bus. These chips also have Altivec.

Here is a link if anyone's interested.

This is great! A post linking to a post on Spymac that links back to a post originally posted on Macrumors... We've come full circle with this rumor....

[Scotty voice]
Cap'ain... She canna' take much more... You canna' change the laws of physics...
[/Scotty voice]

 

[fred_lj]

It IS possible...

Snowy --- "So, while I will acknowledge the plausibility of the MacB rumor, I also stand by the idea that a new update is due, and the G4 has no where to go. That leaves us with nothing but the 970 for the next update."

Phil of Mac --- "Oh, and the 970's going to be put in everything at once, like the G3 was. It's the Apple version of shock and awe..."

This contributes to the idea that the PB just may debut the 970. And to those who say it's never been the case that a company's debuted a new, better processor in a laptop before the desktop, take a look right at APPLE! The G3 debuted in the PowerBook G3 (based on the PowerBook 3400 case) four days before the Power Mac G3 was introduced. Naner-naner-naner.



😉

 

[evoluzione]

why wouldn't Apple introduce a new processor in the 15" powerbook, i mean, where the heck is it anyways??? The ONLY reason I can think of for not putting it in the 15" first, is sales of the 17", which I consider to be their flagship laptop.

and Apple is innovative, and loves to surprise us, it's the sort of thing they'd do i reckon 🙂

if it does happen, it won't hurt PM sales, they're Dual Processor, I would never recommend a laptop to the companies I service, for the work they do anyway. It just would not be practical, no PCI slots, AGP etc etc etc etc.


Having said that, I won't believe it 'til i see it 😉

 

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by evoluzione
why wouldn't Apple introduce a new processor in the 15" powerbook, i mean, where the heck is it anyways??? The ONLY reason I can think of for not putting it in the 15" first, is sales of the 17", which I consider to be their flagship laptop.

and Apple is innovative, and loves to surprise us, it's the sort of thing they'd do i reckon 🙂

if it does happen, it won't hurt PM sales, they're Dual Processor, I would never recommend a laptop to the companies I service, for the work they do anyway. It just would not be practical, no PCI slots, AGP etc etc etc etc.


Having said that, I won't believe it 'til i see it 😉

Right, and they wouldn't release a laptop with the 970, without a desktop at the same time, or soon to come. And we have confirmation of system boards going to manufacturing for both the xserve and powermac, so we know those are coming.

 

[Pinto]

Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
As I understand it, the main source of heat inside a Mac laptop is the hard drive, not the CPU.

My old iBook, with a modest 500 MHz G3, still got scorching hot after a period of continuous use thanks to the hard drive.

It's the chips that cause the heat not so much the drive.

In the PowerBook G4 the drive sits under the trackpad and has no heat dissipation to carry the heat anywhere else. Feel the underside of a PBG4 and all the real heat is at the back end where the motherboard is.