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Uh oh, SJ's red herrings yesterday now causes...

I think RIM missed the part where he said that all these phones are still good products. I didn't see Steve as dissing any product, just to show that the issue is not just iPhone.

If they want to play that way, let RIM please explain why their phone does the same thing.

I think Apple done all of the smartphone market a favor. He knows it's a problem all over the market, lets work to make it better.
 
kuaiyouming said:
This is a good test for RIM and friends. Do they start holding press conferences where they hold up iPhone 4s and their own products to demo how the iPhone drops the call and theirs doesn't? Or do they stay classy and let it slide?

Apple has already shredded its reputation and proven itself petty, arrogant, and deceitful, so I would take the high road if I were a competitor. I'm pretty sure none of them will, though.
Click to expand...

I'm sure any company would do the same thing if their product had gone through 3 weeks of constant bashing for an issue that affects all similar products. What was Apple supposed to do? Just say that "other phones" have similar problems without providing any specifics? Then people would just completely dismiss their claims as being baseless. They needed to be convincing and the only way to do that is with actual specific demonstrations.

RIM's response already takes shots back at Apple, so forget about them taking the classy approach. At least Nokia focused on their own efforts in antenna technology without even mentioning Apple.
 
admanimal said:
I'm sure any company would do the same thing if their product had gone through 3 weeks of constant bashing for an issue that affects all similar products. What was Apple supposed to do? Just say that "other phones" have similar problems without providing any specifics? Then people would just completely dismiss their claims as being baseless. They needed to be convincing and the only way to do that is with actual specific demonstrations.
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Well said :)
 
kuaiyouming said:
See my above response to ijohn. Apple is trying to hide the real issue at hand and its defective design by deflecting attention towards its competitors.
Click to expand...

At least Apple has the balls to come up with new innovative designs to not only "beautify" their product, but also provide enhancements like better battery life, display, etc. I would rather go with a company that tries to be creative rather than stay with same old boring design and function. All other companies are doing is making their phones bigger.

Yes, during their process of innovation, they introduced unintended consequences so if you are a customer and can't deal with it then just return the product, which you probably don't own anyways, and shut the hell up and move along.
 
doboy said:
Hey troll,

At least Apple has the balls to come up with new innovative designs to not only "beautify" their product, but also provide enhancements like better battery life, display, etc. I would rather go with a company that tries to be creative rather than stay with same old boring design and function. All other companies are doing is making their phones bigger.

Yes, during their process of innovation, they introduced unintended consequences so if you are a customer and can't deal with it then just return the product, which you probably don't own anyways, and shut the hell up and move along.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone faults Apple for trying something different. However I think a lot of people expect that when the new thing you try proves to be a failure, you come out and say so, rather than trying to claim that it's not worse than anything else out there. People don't have a problem with someone making a mistake, admitting to it, and making things right. It's dishonesty and arrogance that people don't like.
 
doboy said:
Hey troll,

At least Apple has the balls to come up with new innovative designs to not only "beautify" their product, but also provide enhancements like better battery life, display, etc. I would rather go with a company that tries to be creative rather than stay with same old boring design and function. All other companies are doing is making their phones bigger.

Yes, during their process of innovation, they introduced unintended consequences so if you are a customer and can't deal with it then just return the product, which you probably don't own anyways, and shut the hell up and move along.
Click to expand...

How was that a trolling comment? The antenna issue is clearly a design defect, other successful innovation notwithstanding. One can love iPhone 4 for it's considerable strengths and still take issue with Apple on this point.
 
solarein said:
I don't think anyone faults Apple for trying something different. However I think a lot of people expect that when the new thing you try proves to be a failure, you come out and say so, rather than trying to claim that it's not worse than anything else out there. People don't have a problem with someone making a mistake, admitting to it, and making things right. It's dishonesty and arrogance that people don't like.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree that the phone is a failure. It may not work for some so immediately it's a failure when it seems to work for majority of the people who uses it? It may seem like a failure to those with signal issues, but to those without a problem, it's not. What I have issue is with these sweeping generalization.
 
kuaiyouming said:
Perfect. This is the heart of the issue. A defect itself is nothing. It's the handling of the mistake that is everything.
Click to expand...

Let me honestly ask people who think it's a defect. Do you or have you ever owned iPhone 4? Did you have call dropping issues or you heard or saw videos online? Yes, you may see the signals drop by a bar or two, but how does it affect your real usage?
 
doboy said:
I have to disagree that the phone is a failure. It may not work for some so immediately it's a failure when it seems to work for majority of the people who uses it? It may seem like a failure to those with signal issues, but to those without a problem, it's not. What I have issue is with these sweeping generalization.
Click to expand...

A product doesn't have to fail for everybody who uses it to be a failure. To paraphrase Steve Jobs himself:

If you need to hold a press conference defending your product and offer a free accessory to appease your customers, you have already failed.
 
kuaiyouming said:
The fact that it happens on all phones really isn't important. The big thing is that the iphone 4s design makes it happen worse than any other phone in history. RIM and Nokia phones lose some signal, but are designed such that they don't go completely out of service. The same cannot be said for iPhone 4. What's worse is that Jobs meanwhile touts it as the greatest phone of all time. In the Q&A session someone brought up this point, but Jobs gave a ridiculous nonanswer that did not even remotely address the question.
Click to expand...

This is pure, unfiltered, high quality rubbish. Your comment is completely baseless. Worst in history? Care to back up that claim? I can't believe how incensed people get over this issue. It's just a phone...dont like it, dont buy it. I can say this though, and I can't wait to see how you can spin this in a cynical light:
I can't remember the CEO of any other phone company ever calling a press conference to apologize for a possible problem with a phone and offering a substantial fix. Ever. Let's not forget that there are ALOT of crappy phones out there. Did the loudmouth CEOs of RIM apologize for the train wreck that sure press on the Storm is? Nope. There are a myriad of other examples...take any WinMo phone. So you can call Apple deceitful all you want, but that kind of rhetoric just makes you sound silly.
 
solarein said:
A product doesn't have to fail for everybody who uses it to be a failure. To paraphrase Steve Jobs himself:

If you need to hold a press conference defending your product and offer a free accessory to appease your customers, you have already failed.
Click to expand...

At what percent would you call it a failure? Do you even own iPhone 4?
 
I remember Steve actually calling the BBerry they used as an example the most popular business phone in the world.

Well it was something like that.
 
kuaiyouming said:
I started a new thread precisely on this issue. Jump over there of you have something more to say.
Click to expand...

You want to make iPhone 4 better than keep complaining to Apple or write to SJ. You want Android to succeed? Then keep buying their new phones every two weeks.
 
admanimal said:
I'm sure any company would do the same thing if their product had gone through 3 weeks of constant bashing for an issue that affects all similar products. What was Apple supposed to do? Just say that "other phones" have similar problems without providing any specifics? Then people would just completely dismiss their claims as being baseless. They needed to be convincing and the only way to do that is with actual specific demonstrations.

RIM's response already takes shots back at Apple, so forget about them taking the classy approach. At least Nokia focused on their own efforts in antenna technology without even mentioning Apple.
Click to expand...

The problem is the phones do not hare the same problem as the iPhone. You don't even need to have your phone in your jane (I.e it could be resting on the table) and with one finger you can get it to lose signal. Hell it doesn't have to be a finger, just use a house key or something.
Apple was just trying to shift the blame and I would be pretty annoyed if I was one of the phone companies he tried to 'grab onto as he fell off the cliff'
 
kuaiyouming said:
Apple has already shredded its reputation and proven itself petty, arrogant, and deceitful, so I would take the high road if I were a competitor. I'm pretty sure none of them will, though.
Click to expand...

You've brought up another excellent point.

It's unfortunate that a good portion of marketing has become nothing more that attacks on the competition. Instead of highlighting the features and benefits of their own product, the prevailing practice is to go negative. It's so much like politics. Attack, attack, attack.
 
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