Uh oh, SJ's red herrings yesterday now causes...

[sectime]

You've brought up another excellent point.

It's unfortunate that a good portion of marketing has become nothing more that attacks on the competition. Instead of highlighting the features and benefits of their own product, the prevailing practice is to go negative. It's so much like politics. Attack, attack, attack.

You realize your describing your own posts??

 

[maflynn]

Of course RIM and Nokia were going to have a rebuttal. It was a slick move by Jobs to portray the issue that affects smartphones, not just iPhones.

I'm not saying who's right or wrong, just that it was smart by Jobs and I'd be more surprised if RIM and Nokia didn't offer a response that basically slammed apple and its design.

 

[Warbrain]

Of course RIM and Nokia were going to have a rebuttal. It was a slick move by Jobs to portray the issue that affects smartphones, not just iPhones.

I'm not saying who's right or wrong, just that it was smart by Jobs and I'd be more surprised if RIM and Nokia didn't offer a response that basically slammed apple and its design.

Even though their phones do the same exact thing.

No red herrings here. More fud by whiny forum users, though.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Even though their phones do the same exact thing.

No red herrings here. More fud by whiny forum users, though.

That's the thing though, they don't. That's also why Apple is the only company that has to do damage control; No other cellphone has ever had its reception drop from full to 0 bars by simply touching it with a single finger in the wrong place.

 

[woofermazing]

This is the right response by RIM. Steve Jobs basically went out in front of everyone and lied. The problem with the iPhone 4 is unique as the cell and wifi/bluetooth antenna are coupling. Steve could not admit that because it would mean admitting there is a design flaw.

 

[Warbrain]

That's the thing though, they don't. That's also why Apple is the only company that has to do damage control; No other cellphone has ever had its reception drop from full to 0 bars by simply touching it with a single finger in the wrong place.

You can do it with a single finger on a Motorola RAZR. If you really wanted to you could do it with a single finger on all other phones. The difference is that Apple put a big target on the phone where it can happen. It doesn't always happen to me. Mine only does it in places with weak signal.

 

[solarein]

You can do it with a single finger on a Motorola RAZR. If you really wanted to you could do it with a single finger on all other phones. The difference is that Apple put a big target on the phone where it can happen. It doesn't always happen to me. Mine only does it in places with weak signal.

Now you are just making stuff up. Please show me how you can do it with a single finger on all other phones.

The problem with the iPhone 4 is that the weak spot is a place where many people normally hold their phones. For a lot of the other phones, care was taken so that normal hand positioning doesn't interfere with signal very much.

 

[rburly]

Let me honestly ask people who think it's a defect. Do you or have you ever owned iPhone 4? Did you have call dropping issues or you heard or saw videos online? Yes, you may see the signals drop by a bar or two, but how does it affect your real usage?

I've had dropped calls since I got the phone from FedEx on June 24. It's a black 32GB. I watched last night when I got home from work and my son got scores from his school that he'd been waiting for. He was extremely excited and I let him him call his mother using my phone. He had at least 3 drops during that call alone. The thing is, that's normal for me with this phone, so I was waiting to see what Jobs would say. And, sure enough, I was disappointed.

 

[alfonsom05]

You've brought up another excellent point.

It's unfortunate that a good portion of marketing has become nothing more that attacks on the competition. Instead of highlighting the features and benefits of their own product, the prevailing practice is to go negative. It's so much like politics. Attack, attack, attack.

I would not call this an attack; this is nothing compared to what politicians do.

Unlike the others mention, Apples only phone is the iPhone. Its like an only child, it gets all the attention and does not have other siblings to deflect some of the attention. Blackberry, as someone mentioned, has produced some awful phones in the past and they do not get this kind of media coverage.

 

[jsbaugh]

I don't think anyone faults Apple for trying something different. However I think a lot of people expect that when the new thing you try proves to be a failure, you come out and say so, rather than trying to claim that it's not worse than anything else out there. People don't have a problem with someone making a mistake, admitting to it, and making things right. It's dishonesty and arrogance that people don't like.

When was their design proven to be a failure? There are millions that don't have an issue including my self. If I hold the phone it goes from 5 bars to 3 like all my other phones. Have not dropped a call yet. I don't see failure there.

 

[Pez555]

the funny thing is, people just seem to be ignoring the data.

fact is, its not as much as a problem as people in here are trying to make it. The statistics dont lie, the data doesnt lie.

this forum probably represents <1% of the iPhone market. My friends who own an iPhone 4 say its a non issue, they dont care. it works for them. Its just people on here that WANT to make an issue out of it.

Apple probably brought this upon themselves, as a company that makes fantastic products, its only natural for people to come and complain when the slightest issue is raised, and yes, it is a small issue.

people just need to stop and think for a second.

 

[jsbaugh]

I've had dropped calls since I got the phone from FedEx on June 24. It's a black 32GB. I watched last night when I got home from work and my son got scores from his school that he'd been waiting for. He was extremely excited and I let him him call his mother using my phone. He had at least 3 drops during that call alone. The thing is, that's normal for me with this phone, so I was waiting to see what Jobs would say. And, sure enough, I was disappointed.

Then take it back and get something else.

 

[samcraig]

Hey troll,

At least Apple has the balls to come up with new innovative designs to not only "beautify" their product, but also provide enhancements like better battery life, display, etc. I would rather go with a company that tries to be creative rather than stay with same old boring design and function. All other companies are doing is making their phones bigger.

Yes, during their process of innovation, they introduced unintended consequences so if you are a customer and can't deal with it then just return the product, which you probably don't own anyways, and shut the hell up and move along.

Really? So no other phone manufacturer has changes the form, function and features of their phones EXCEPT Apple?

How's life in the bubble?

 

[bfh123]

Sounds like someone needs to look up the definition of "red herring"


Hint: Go back and read the response from RIM and Nokia more carefully.


At least Nokia was somewhat honest.

 

[dmelgar]

Perfect. This is the heart of the issue. A defect itself is nothing. It's the handling of the mistake that is everything.

Agreed.

In reality, I think Apple is scared. They do not know how to react to this. This is the fist time they've had a design problem this bad it cannot be fixed and can't easily be covered up.
Apple was already running scared worrying about android. They sued HTC, changed terms to discourage multiplatform applications. They are locking Google out of ads on the phone. They're trying more draconian actions than anyone else has the hubris to attempt. They're making Microsoft look good.

 

[ouimetnick]

Hey troll,

At least Apple has the balls to come up with new innovative designs to not only "beautify" their product, but also provide enhancements like better battery life, display, etc. I would rather go with a company that tries to be creative rather than stay with same old boring design and function. All other companies are doing is making their phones bigger.

Yes, during their process of innovation, they introduced unintended consequences so if you are a customer and can't deal with it then just return the product, which you probably don't own anyways, and shut the hell up and move along.

kuaiyouming is not a troll. I agree with him 100% Besides, notice the Apple videos grip the phones really tightly (unnaturally) But just lightly touching the antenna on the iPhone 4 loses reception. The other phones lose some bars, but don't drop the call. Apple did fail this year, and are trying to make it look like their competitors are just as bad. kuaiyouming is just not a fanboy, and a normal customer.

 

[tivoboy]

let the smack down begin!

As many noted yesterday, apple is just digging ITSELF deeper into a hole. this latest response from RIMM whom they directly called out yesterday confirms it. As others noted this statement is spot on!

"Apple's attempt to draw RIM into Apple's self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple's claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public's understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple's difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM's customers don't need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple."

 

[scaredpoet]

That's the thing though, they don't.

There's a lot of videos, even videos NOT made by Apple, that show they do.

kuaiyouming is not a troll. I agree with him 100% Besides, notice the Apple videos grip the phones really tightly (unnaturally)

Right, and they call it the iPhone 4 "death grip" for nothing, right?

The other phones lose some bars, but don't drop the call.

My iPhone 4 hasn't dropped any calls either, actually.

Apple did fail this year, and are trying to make it look like their competitors are just as bad.

I have to disagree, and apparently so do the sales figures, return rates, and AT&T dropped call statistics.

Our opinions on this forum, good or bad, don't determine whether the iPhone 4 is a failure. The only thing that determines that is how well it sells. So far it's selling pretty damned well. We'll see how it continues to sell after this press conference.

 

[mgamber]

LOL...I was wondering how long it would take before Nokia jammed a knee in Apple's crotch. I've long thought that when it comes to making phone calls from almost anywhere, there's no better phone than Nokia. I have a 3G Nokia Go Phone that cost what...$30?...and I can use it anywhere in the house for as long as I'd like and it's never once dropped a call. This being opposed to the iPhones, WinMo phones and Blackberrys that drop calls constantly here. The iPhone 4 works better than previous iPhones but I can always go into the basement and it'll drop the call but the Nokia won't. SonyEricsson used to make phones with excellent reception also, but I haven't owned one in years so I don't know if that's true.

Funny how HTC hasn't said anything yet. Maybe they're still at the bar clinking glasses. My Fuze never once had a problem and worked much better than previous iPhones. The iPhone 4 is probably on par with it.

 

[ouimetnick]

Hey troll,

At least Apple has the balls to come up with new innovative designs to not only "beautify" their product, but also provide enhancements like better battery life, display, etc. I would rather go with a company that tries to be creative rather than stay with same old boring design and function. All other companies are doing is making their phones bigger.

Yes, during their process of innovation, they introduced unintended consequences so if you are a customer and can't deal with it then just return the product, which you probably don't own anyways, and shut the hell up and move along.

I have to disagree that the phone is a failure. It may not work for some so immediately it's a failure when it seems to work for majority of the people who uses it? It may seem like a failure to those with signal issues, but to those without a problem, it's not. What I have issue is with these sweeping generalization.

At what percent would you call it a failure? Do you even own iPhone 4?

Yes, keep starting new threads like a true troll I'm really interested in your true intent if you are not just trolling. You want to make iPhone 4 better than keep complaining to Apple or write to SJ. You want Android to succeed? Then keep buying their new phones every two weeks.

doboy, You do realize that these posts make you look like an Apple fanboy? If I owned my own iPhone 4 and had this issue, I would return it, or get a case and try to live with it as I love everything else about the iPhone 4. But I would still bitch about this issue all day long.

Such a pathetic issue that Apple has. No other smartphone has this same exact problem as the iPhone 4. Just because someone is complaining about a design flaw doesn't mean they are a troll. Even if you don't have this issue, its still a failure.

A company wouldn't need to hold a press conference, make other phones look worse than they are, and give free $30 plastic things away if this wasn't a failure. If you are not having issues with yours, why are you looking at this thread? You should be enjoying your iPhone 4 or looking at other threads.

 

[sinsin07]

Hey troll,

At least Apple has the balls to come up with new innovative designs to not only "beautify" their product, but also provide enhancements like better battery life, display, etc. I would rather go with a company that tries to be creative rather than stay with same old boring design and function. All other companies are doing is making their phones bigger.

Yes, during their process of innovation, they introduced unintended consequences so if you are a customer and can't deal with it then just return the product, which you probably don't own anyways, and shut the hell up and move along.

Another form over function. Or should it be form over some function

If another company had this issue publicly aired first and used an iPhone to prove their point their would be fanboy crying and gnashing their teeth.

Apple-xcuse

 

[ouimetnick]

There's a lot of videos, even videos NOT made by Apple, that show they do.



Right, and they call it the iPhone 4 "death grip" for nothing, right?




My iPhone 4 hasn't dropped any calls either, actually.




I have to disagree, and apparently so do the sales figures, return rates, and AT&T dropped call statistics.

Our opinions on this forum, good or bad, don't determine whether the iPhone 4 is a failure. The only thing that determines that is how well it sells. So far it's selling pretty damned well. We'll see how it continues to sell after this press conference.

Well the iPhone 4 at the Apple Store can lose full reception and drop the call when I place a dime on the problem spot, or when I hold the phone normally. So from my experience, holding the phone normally like I hold my 3GS drops the call and goes into Searching.

 

[2005CTS]

Hey troll,

At least Apple has the balls to come up with new innovative designs to not only "beautify" their product, but also provide enhancements like better battery life, display, etc. I would rather go with a company that tries to be creative rather than stay with same old boring design and function. All other companies are doing is making their phones bigger.

Yes, during their process of innovation, they introduced unintended consequences so if you are a customer and can't deal with it then just return the product, which you probably don't own anyways, and shut the hell up and move along.

His comment was not a trolling comment. It is now a well known fact that just one finger on the spot of death on an iPhone4 can cause the problem...you have to palm the entire phone from the competition to see signal strength loss (but no dropped calls). That is still a huge difference.

Apple has a design problem...and it was clearly a diversionary tactic to bring up other phones. No one else has their antenna on the outside of the phone for a reason! The press conference yesterday was complete BS.

 

[TonyC28]

I've seen a few people on here claim that the other phones don't drop signal when held a certain way. Are you saying the videos Apple showed were faked?

 

[2005CTS]

As a confirmed Apple fan-boy I have to say RIM's statement is spot-on!

Agreed - RIM was spot on. I have a new MacBook Pro, a Gateway PC and Samsung and BlackBerry Phone...so I am not loyal to any one brand. I was going to get an iP4 to replace my BB but am now having second thoughts since they have no real fix in place. As soon as Apple gets an iMac refresh out (and provided it doesn't have the horrible quality issues they had last fall/spring) I will buy one to replace my aging Gateway PC - which by the way has been 100% trouble and virus free.

I was glad to see RIM rightly defend themselves against Apple trying to bring them into their mess.