A drop of coffee = over £2000 worth of damage?

[MagicBoy]

"You accidentally spilt Coffee on your new MacBook. That's bad, and I feel for you. No excuse for the rest of this thread. Grow up and take some responsibility for not having insurance."

Is this his health we're talking about? It is interesting that in the US, it is our responsibility to buy insurance (we love to imagine how we're in control of our social positions, our rich's and their poverty is our or their fault), but in the UK(?) it is the responsibility of the government and broader society to provide healthcare for the population (for aren't the ills of people, at least a significant fraction of the time, the result of interactions of people and society? And what about the notion of legitimate royalty and the legitimate welfare state?). Different socially constituted delegations of responsibility...

People always seem to have deep mores on one or another side of this controversy, and though we're not talking about health, I'd bet the debate has a lot to do with this.

What on earth are you on about? Healthcare provision in the US has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

I'm a Brit, OP is bought a machine in the UK therefore is likely a Brit.

If you want to protect an expensive item against accidental damage, be it a car, your house or consumer electronics you insure it. End of.

 

[iPad Retina]

On Tuesday I happened to knock over a mug of coffee, and a relatively small amount of it went through the keyboard of my brand-new maximum specification 13" MacBook Pro Retina. I dived out of my chair, removed the adapter, and the power immediately cut off. I gently dried it off with a towel, and then stood it next to a radiator in a tent-like position and left it there for around 24 hours, as instructed by those I'd found online who'd experienced similar accidents. The next day I took it to have the damage evaluated at my local Apple Store. I'd been warned not to try to switch it on, so I was concerned when the bloke had his thumb over the power button about five seconds after I'd opened it. Despite my skepticism, everything seemed to be working fine. But then, after about about ten minutes of fiddling, it became apparent that the speakers were completely dead. But hey, that's a lot better than what I was expecting. A new set of speakers will set me back, what, £100? Hardly the horror story that I'd been hearing from people online, I thought.

So, next this bloke tells me he's going to take it into the back of the store to take a look at the internals. I'm waiting around for about two minutes before he comes back with this uncomfortable expression on his face. He sits down opposite me, takes a slow breath through his bearing teeth, and then begins to unload the bad news. The general gist was that every single component inside of my machine would need to be replaced, and that would amount to more than the actual value of a brand-new one. He told me that he could visibly see coffee residue on each part of the machine, which from Apple's point of view, means that they'd all need to be replaced in order to reinstate my warranty. He then finished with, "at this point, your best bet is to actually sell it for parts, and then use the money to buy yourself a new one".

I'm absolutely astounded by their response to this matter. I paid very shy of £2,000 for this computer with a year's AppleCare on top of that, and their best advice is to simply sell it for pocket change? I told him that I wasn't happy with his evaluation and that I'd be returning to hopefully see someone else in the near future, but he stabbed back at me by telling me that he'd already put all of this down on my record so it wouldn't do me any good. I don't know whether there's any truth to that, or whether he was just saying it to spite me, but at the moment I'd bet on the latter.

I have absolutely no idea what my next move is. I know that while I do nothing, my internals are likely corroding away, which is pushing me towards finding someone who knows how to disassemble and clean computer internals. I'm also wondering that if that is the case, and all traces of coffee are gone, can I return to the Apple store and have it reevaluated in the hopes that I'll be seen by someone who genuinely wants to help me?

I'm almost at the point of breaking down. I'm a student, I'm living away from home, I'm in the midst of my exams, and now I'm apparently £2,000 down too.

Please, help.

Did you have you coffee with any extras (milk, cream, sugar)

Sugar will corode the logic board

 

[simonsi]

...though we're not talking about health, I'd bet the debate has a lot to do with this.

I think we can safely say you were wide of the mark there....

 

[broflovski]

UPDATE

Somehow the blokes who cleaned it managed to do so without breaking the stickers, despite me assuring them that it didn't matter, as the warranty was void regardless. In hindsight, I'm sure this played a part in Apple's decision today to agree to perform a repair.

This time I chanced it by telling the genius that it was just water that was spilt, (if their record from the last time told them it was coffee, I'd have responded with, "yes, essentially flavoured water - no milk, no sugar") thanks, Mr. Buzzcut). I didn't have to lie, though. He didn't question me. I told him that less than a tablespoon made contact, and seemingly only the speakers have been affected. He, of course, gave me the old "but you know, liquid damage is often a ticking time bomb, blah, blah, blah" speech, but I shunned it off by reinstating how insignificant the amount of liquid was that I actually spilt. He eventually agreed to take another look.

He returned about ten minutes later, sat down opposite me, and asked if I was sure that I'd spilt anything on it. I was a little dumbfounded by the question, I didn't quite understand where he was going with it. Apparently, there wasn't any definitive signs of liquid damage, and only one of the sensors had slightly went pink, which, he says, doesn't necessarily indicate liquid contact. He asked me again whether I was absolutely certain that water had went through the keyboard, and that the speakers hadn't just stopped working by themselves. I confirmed that I was certain, but didn't deny that the speakers could have been faulty, as they'd been sounding static-y for months now, (they hadn't).

Long story short, they've taken it in for further testing, and expect to give me a quote in the next few days, but the genius reckons I'll not be charged for more than the cost of two speakers, which will come to less than £100, and if they don't find further evidence of liquid damage it'll be covered by them. So, fingers crossed.

Result. Result. Result.

If anything, this entire thread just proves that you should take what people say on the internet with a pinch of salt. Against all odds, for the mere price of £25, I have saved myself nearly £2,000. Just allow that to sink in. Despite all of your best attempts to cast doubts, I have emerged from this dire situation triumphantly with surprising ease.

I hope this thread acts as a kind of guide, if you will, for the hundreds of thousands of Apple's customers, present and future, who are deliberately, due to irresponsible design, put in my (previous) situation.

 

[simonsi]

I'd wait until you have the quote. Until then your situation isn't actually any different. Wonder why he didn't just give you the repair price there and then?

 

[broflovski]

I'd wait until you have the quote. Until then your situation isn't actually any different. Wonder why he didn't just give you the repair price there and then?

Because I told him that I'd definitely spilt water over it. Probably a mistake on my part. They have to be absolutely certain that it's back to a warrantable state, which means further tests are in order. Admittedly, I am expecting to pay to replace more than just the speakers, but we'll see.

 

[Brian Y]

UPDATE

If anything, this entire thread just proves that you should take what people say on the internet with a pinch of salt. Against all odds, for the mere price of £25, I have saved myself nearly £2,000. Just allow that to sink in. Despite all of your best attempts to cast doubts, I have emerged from this dire situation triumphantly with surprising ease.

I hope this thread acts as a kind of guide, if you will, for the hundreds of thousands of Apple's customers, present and future, who are deliberately, due to irresponsible design, put in my (previous) situation.

No, you removed signs of liquid damage and lied to Apple to get them to repair the machine. Best case its fraud.

To each their own.

 

[Mr. Buzzcut]

Well, the note about taking responsibility for not having insurance reminded me of healthcare debates common in the US.

In any case, I think that the thread raises important questions about the relationship between the individual and the company--which is a unique company as it increasingly performs tasks that straddle the roles of many other institutions not traditionally incorporated in incorporations: the state, schools, crediting, recently stewarding forests...

What exactly do they owe each other? The question is complicated further by the fact that their machines have become more or less necessary for people to carry out routine tasks in certain roles (student). Dare I say it, they have become necessary for many to even be their "self". Apple products are marketed as things to use to do schoolwork in cafes (from which it is easy to extrapolated that they encourage the belief that a user is not morally flawed sipping open drinks near it) as well as to be identity-makers and placeholders. Their customizability and the packaging of apps to manage photos, personal lists, calendars, one's thoughts, only reinforces that interpretation.

What are people entitled to? At what point is the choice to repair or buy a new computer not a completely free choice, but one containing an element of coercion?

Absolutely absurd. This mindset would have the state issuing the computer in the first place. I'm glad I don't live in your utopian fantasy land.

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Did you have you coffee with any extras (milk, cream, sugar)

Sugar will corode the logic board

OP already stated the beverage was over half milk which doesn't qualify as coffee IMO. But people would be less sympathetic, so it was "just a drop of coffee."

 

[T5BRICK]

If anything, this entire thread just proves that you should take what people say on the internet with a pinch of salt. Against all odds, for the mere price of £25, I have saved myself nearly £2,000. Just allow that to sink in. Despite all of your best attempts to cast doubts, I have emerged from this dire situation triumphantly with surprising ease.

I hope this thread acts as a kind of guide, if you will, for the hundreds of thousands of Apple's customers, present and future, who are deliberately, due to irresponsible design, put in my (previous) situation.

You essentially committed fraud and didn't accept responsibility for your own actions. Good for you.

 

[Mr. Buzzcut]

I hope this thread acts as a kind of guide, if you will, for the hundreds of thousands of Apple's customers, present and future, who are deliberately, due to irresponsible design, put in my (previous) situation.

Congrats, I suppose. But if you really believe this, why give Apple your money?

 

[brdeveloper]

You essentially committed fraud and didn't accept responsibility for your own actions. Good for you.

I don't agree that this can be considered a fraud by every measure. It's a subjective judgement which would need a mediation by a court. In my opinion, the OP was practically forced to hide evidences of spilling allowing him to have JUST the speakers replaced - and not the entire logic board. He will even pay for the speakers, if I understood well the case.

In others words, Apple puts some spilling sensors inside the case and "geniuses" decide to replace the entire logic board just basing the decision on what a sensor says? They should check the circuits and components like any good electronics technician would do. I have an uncle which fix laptops here in Brazil and he usually finds motherboard problems that can be fixed either by cleaning, fixing a track or changing some commodity component like a capacitor.

Apple's approach is like sending your car for assistance, and then the technician says: "your electronic injection system is faulty because of abusing of adulterate gasoline. It will be necessary an engine replacement".

 

[macjunk(ie)]

Apple's approach is like sending your car for assistance, and then the technician says: "your electronic injection system is faulty because of abusing of adulterate gasoline. It will be necessary an engine replacement".

Now that is fraud!
More than the OP, to me, Apple is the fraudulent party. They are taking advantage of the OP's (or any general customer's) lack of intimate knowledge of Apple's sub-components to quote higher repair charges.

I expect this from Apple anyway. Just look at how they handle their customers with failed graphic card issues....they always need a lawsuit to force them to do the right thing...If not for the lawsuits, customers will have to pay outrageous repair charges for Apple's design flaws that are dormant when the machines are purchased

More power to the OP

 

[AZhappyjack]

The "rule" is that no "user-inflicted damage" is covered. However, it is easy to see that any spill-related damage is inflicted by Apple. This is because Apple has systematically (and irresponsibly) engineered their computers to be vulnerable to spills, when water-resistance technology has existed practically forever!

Laptops are electronics. Of course they're susceptible to liquid damage via spills. Apple's focus is on thinner and lighter. It's your opinion that Apple has "systematically (and irresponsibly) engineer their computers to be vulnerable" to anything.

There's a big difference between not water-proofing the internals of their electronics and what you suggested was their intentional act.

I could not disagree with this position more.

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Really OP. Stop being so arrogant.

You accidentally spilt Coffee on your new MacBook. That's bad, and I feel for you. No excuse for the rest of this thread. Grow up and take some responsibility for not having insurance.

In this day and age, it's never anyone's fault but the big electronics manufacturers, the insurance companies or the other person.

Thank you for trying to bring logic and responsibility to this thread.

 

[simonsi]

They should check the circuits and components like any good electronics technician would do. I have an uncle which fix laptops here in Brazil and he usually finds motherboard problems that can be fixed either by cleaning, fixing a track or changing some commodity component like a capacitor.

So who will pay for that? Bet the OP won't want to. How long would he be willing to pay a technician to check the components for AND then expect the tech/business give an assurance that no further damage due to the liquid spill (which Apple didn't witness), will occur?

Put that scenario to your Uncle and I bet he will refuse to accept that risk, at the very best he is not obliged to accept it. Neither is Apple.

 

[broflovski]

No, you removed signs of liquid damage and lied to Apple to get them to repair the machine. Best case its fraud.

To each their own.

No I didn't, I removed evidence of coffee damage. I've openly admitted to spilling liquid on it, (twice now).

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OP already stated the beverage was over half milk which doesn't qualify as coffee IMO. But people would be less sympathetic, so it was "just a drop of coffee."

What, lattes, mochas and cappuccinos don't qualify as coffee?

 

[duervo]

Typical example of victim mentality by the OP and their supporters.

Not surprised at all, mind you. Just making an observation.

There are a lot of people like this in society.

 

[broflovski]

Congrats, I suppose. But if you really believe this, why give Apple your money?

I'm not saying Apple are the only ones who do it - it's harder to think of a company who doesn't. Absolutely nothing is built to last.

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Typical example of victim mentality by the OP and their supporters.

Not surprised at all, mind you. Just making an observation.

There are a lot of people like this in society.

I'd love to know what some of you'd do in the same situation. I bet over half of you (telling me to accept the consequences of my actions) would be insuring it once the damage was done, only to claim six months down the line. There are definitely a lot of hypocrites in society.

 

[Brian Y]

I'd love to know what some of you'd do in the same situation. I bet over half of you (telling me to accept the consequences of my actions) would be insuring it once the damage was done, only to claim six months down the line. There are definitely a lot of hypocrites in society.

No, because I take responsibility for my crap.

All of my gadgets are insured. Some with AC+, some with home insurance, some with my bank. If something happens to one of them, I don't have to resort to underhanded tactics.

In your situation, I would have just replaced the speaker module/whatever myself. But I wouldn't expect Apple (or any company) to pay for my mistake.

FWIW, even if you say you didn't do anything wrong, you took the computer apart to clean it, which itself would void the warranty/service agreement with Apple. You told them you spilled "a tiny amount" - which wasn't the case. If there was enough that it hit several components (to the point it had to be cleaned), then you're lying to them.

There's a lot of people in this world who need to learn to take responsibility for their actions.

That said, if you still think Apple is at fault for designing a computer you can spill liquid on, I suggest that next time around you look at Panasonic's tough book line.

 

[shoulin333]

If it seems to be working overall just open it up and clean the coffee off with this.

http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05101-QD-Electronic-Cleaner/dp/B000CCMLD0

 

[JTToft]

No I didn't, I removed evidence of coffee damage. I've openly admitted to spilling liquid on it, (twice now).

- You quite clearly did lie. As per your own admission, you told them the speakers had sounded "static-y" for months when they hadn't:

I confirmed that I was certain, but didn't deny that the speakers could have been faulty, as they'd been sounding static-y for months now, (they hadn't).

What, lattes, mochas and cappuccinos don't qualify as coffee?

- Sure they do. But if your beverage was more than 50 % milk, then "milk" would have been a more accurate description of it than "coffee".

 

[broflovski]

So who will pay for that? Bet the OP won't want to.

I'd have loved to. Far better than being advised to essentially put the entire thing in the bin, and then, of course, to buy a new one. I'd been on the phone to Apple and many of their licensed refurbishers, and none of them were willing to even clean my MacBook. They all said it was pointless. They were all more than happy to let my internals rust away, obviously keeping their best interests in mind. After becoming inpatient, I said to one of the blokes on the phone, "if this had happened to your MacBook, you'd be opening the whole thing up and cleaning it, wouldn't you? You wouldn't just wait until the coffee residue ate away at the main components, but yet you're comfortable with advising me against cleaning it?" He couldn't answer. After a few seconds of silence he came out with, "well, as I say, these things don't often have a happy ending. Sorry I can't help you out any further. Bye now."

How can you defend these people?

Bottom line is, a tablespoon of coffee doesn't completely destroy an entire MacBook. The blokes who cleaned it said that it was relatively clean, and that the coffee had missed most of the components and accumulated in the speakers, yet Apple write the whole thing off? I brought it into Apple the day after the accident happened, all they had to do was clean the device. If they removed all of the liquid, there wouldn't be any longterm risks of corrosion. Of course, they're not going to do that, though. I mean, why would they? It was designed to be susceptible to liquid, so obviously their technicians aren't authorised to remedy situations like this. They're just there to deliver the bad news, and hopefully to persuade an unwitting customer into buying a new one. It's an absolute disgrace.

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If it seems to be working overall just open it up and clean the coffee off with this.

http://www.amazon.com/CRC-05101-QD-Electronic-Cleaner/dp/B000CCMLD0

Sale: £77.00

Is this a joke?

----------

- You quite clearly did lie. As per your own admission

He practically put the words into my mouth. He wanted to help me out.

 

[broflovski]

FWIW, even if you say you didn't do anything wrong, you took the computer apart to clean it, which itself would void the warranty/service agreement with Apple. You told them you spilled "a tiny amount" - which wasn't the case. If there was enough that it hit several components (to the point it had to be cleaned), then you're lying to them.

I paid £2,000 for it! What, was I supposed to just let it rust away?

I did spill a tiny amount. I had no way of checking how much had hit the components - I don't own a pentalobe screwdriver. I had to take Apple's word for it. The way they described it was so alarming that I had to have it cleaned, regardless of what my next intentions were.

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There's a lot of people in this world who need to learn to take responsibility for their actions.

I do take responsibility. I spilt a little bit of coffee on my Mac. I was careless. I also hit a pothole on my way home this evening, the difference is my car didn't instantly lose all of its value.

 

[broflovski]

- Sure they do. But if your beverage was more than 50 % milk, then "milk" would have been a more accurate description of it than "coffee".

If I'd put "milk", we'd be having the same conversation now about how I should have put "coffee (with milk and sugar)" or "latte (from a porcelain mug)" or "mocha (from table four in Starbucks)".

 

[Brian Y]

I do take responsibility. I spilt a little bit of coffee on my Mac. I was careless. I also hit a pothole on my way home this evening, the difference is my car didn't instantly lose all of its value.

Your car is designed to be ridden over potholes. A better analogy would be to moan about your car being damaged if you had a minor accident.

Anyway, the point is moot. We all know the outcome, and your morals. No point arguing.

 

[JTToft]

If I'd put "milk", we'd be having the same conversation now about how I should have put "coffee (with milk and sugar)" or "latte (from a porcelain mug)" or "mocha (from table four in Starbucks)".

- Hah. You're probably right.