A Look Inside Apple's Wireless Testing Facilities

[jerry333]

The best thing Apple could do is offer iphone 4 on Verizon. Then when everyone sees that the dropped call issue disappears due to better network coverage, AT&T will be exposed once and for all.

I'd think you'd get more failed calls because the iPhone(any) isn't technically capable of connecting to the Verizon network. If Apple went and made a Verizon compatible iPhone4 it wouldn't be the same phone so the comparison would still be meaningless.

Anyway, it's a non-issue because as an actual iPhone4 owner I have 2258 minutes with zero drops.

 

[digitalbiker]

Steve didn't give the exact number because as he said, AT & T didn't give him the numbers, but told him that the iPhone 4 number was less than one call per hundred more than the 3GS. He was hiding nothing here.

Well I didn't mean to say that he was hiding anything. What I meant, is that AT&T does not want the public to know the percentage of dropped calls on their network because it would be in the next verizon commercial on TV.

AT&T has horrible signal coverage over the US and everyone knows it but AT&T refuses to address the issue. They make all of these claims on TV about 97% of the US being covered but what they don't tell you is that the signal for 50% of those people is so weak that phones drop a huge number of calls. Apple suffers from being on the AT&T network. People think the iphone is defective when the fact is AT&T has marginal signal strength in a lot of areas.

Also their network is so saturated that it can't handle the network traffic and calls are dropped.

Like Steve said all phones have signal attenuation when held in specific ways. But I would bet that far fewer calls are dropped due to this attenuation on Verizon's network than on AT&T. The primary reason is because on average the Verizon network has better signal strength in a given area than AT&T's. This obviously isn't true everywhere but it is better on average.

 

[farmboy]

...so quiet you can hear an iPhone 4 cellphone call drop.




I'm a bit surprised that Apple would make a phone that cannot be used in the left hand by many w/o a case....but here we are.

I think the use of the word "many" is not a fair representation of 0.55%.
"Few" is the right word.

 

[Max(IT)]

Radio ham, mathematics graduate and experienced human here, reporting in to confirm that putting two uninsulated antennas in a position where they will routinely be not just gripped but gripped simultaneously is stupid. My extensive involvement with my senses of vision and touch confirm that Apple is pretty much alone in boldly ignoring physics by designing a radio like this.

and you can prove me to be a better engineer than Apple's ?
I really doubt it ...

For what I know, an antenna design like that has a much better Signal to Noise Ratio than an internal one. Maybe they balanced pros and cons here ...

Yes. A venomous snake may also work as a rat-catcher. Its just that things go awful wrong when you try holding it.

exactly, and this has absolutely NOTHING to do with the issue in topic.

No no no. It's a feature, not a bug is the correct line if you're parodying.

I didn't say FEATURE, so spare the usual "blind fanboy" BS, please.
I spoke about BEHAVIOR, and you can understand english better than me, I'm sure

 

[marcfogel]

Heck with this. Apple needs to hire some dude to travel around and phone home asking "can you hear me now?"

Seems much more effective than this

 

[starstreak]

They need to do more testing.

I have the bumper. True. I dont get disconnect calls now, but I noticed that if my thumb touches the volume buttons my upload speeds goes to crap. I was doing this test in an aera that I had between 50-80% bars. Using speedtest.net app, If I run the upload to about 70% and touch the buttons, the speed will drop before the test ends for upload.

I didn't think those buttons on the bumper was metal...

 

[Max(IT)]

Excellent post.

except it is flawed in its very basis ...

1. It might look "cool" to some and might feel even cooler when Apple mention a random large amount of money, singing to the choir who are already easily wowed by shiny, but they're designing 'phones. They should have a test chamber.

there are different kind of test chambers, and a company could invests different amounts of money in testing.
Apple seems to be second to no one in this field.
And people here keep speaking as they were a bunch of amateurs ....

2. The problem isn't that signals can be attenuated if you put your hand near/on the antenna. Anyone in the first year of any sort of analog electrical engineering study will have a grasp of that, and mobile 'phones have been designed with that problem in mind for nigh on 30 years. The problems are (a) the likelihood of proximity of hand to antenna position; (b) the amount of insulation between antenna and hand. You don't need a $100,000,000 lab to find this out, just one left handed person operating the phone on the move without a phone condom.

the problem is EXACTLY that: signals can be attenuated, and it happens almost on EVERY phone.
Keep following the Nokia and RIM bs about their competence, but the problem is easily demonstrated on their products also (as Apple ACTUALLY DID).

3. The low return rate is misleading. In early weeks you are going to get a lower rate because you're selling more to fans than people going through their normal upgrade cycle, and fans have higher tolerance levels. What is more, Apple have been making unique promises: a software upgrade would fix the problem; a conference will be hosted to discuss other solutions; returns without restocking fee. All these are (yes, including the final one!) more likely to make people hold onto their 'phone for a while longer despite the troubles, for they are reassured that they have many alternatives.

The iPhone 4 is, by today's mobile phone standards, a fairly decent phone with an awful antenna position. Jobs could have left it at the "we're not perfect" rather than set up the hilarious site which might as well have a flashing marquee, "All surfaces are covered with millions of bacteria. Not just ours. So if we cause food poisoning, everyone does. And this irrelevant and tenuous argument is why you can't class action us."

another bs post about how "blind and fool" are fanboys
Return rate is RETURN RATE. Point.
There isn't an army of blind fanboy out there, ready to throw money at Apple for free. There are customers, most of them seem to be happy about their iphone.

 

[Veri]

and you can prove me to be a better engineer than Apple's ?

*facepalm* re-read what I said without skipping the detail.

Incidentally, I didn't hear one Apple engineer freely speaking yesterday. And I don't recall Apple receiving papal infallibility to apply argument by authority.

For what I know, an antenna design like that has a much better Signal to Noise Ratio than an internal one.

What design? And it always depends on what's between "external" and "internal", doesn't it?

Maybe they balanced pros and cons here ...

Objective: two adjacent antennas on a handgrip!
Design proposal: do not shield antennas!!
Pro: ...?

it happens almost on EVERY phone.

It happens on every antenna without exception. Electromagnetism 101 explains it. Everyone with the slightest interest in RF knows it already. Apple has taught everyone nothing they don't already know.

This is why 'phones are designed with the antennas positioned and shielded so that holding the 'phone normally does not cause significant attenuation.

Apple failed at this. Apple's

• failure to follow well-established design practice, their
• failure to admit to their mistake, and their
• failure to treat their customers and competitors other than as fools

means Apple are getting the media response that Apple deserve.

 

[ntrigue]

Those facilities are gorgeous! That's why I believe that Apple can produce a working product worth the price between September 30 and July 2011.

 

[Kwill]

i'm really not all that impressed. even Consumer Reports had a nicer testing room than that for their tests!!!

oh wait, NO THEY DIDN'T

100 million bla, bla, bla. Consumer reports purchased four iPhones, an oscillator and some duct tape. We can certainly put more faith in their results.

 

[Max(IT)]

If you're a large company like Apple and one day everyone on the web and in the media starts screaming about a product defect, how do you quantify whether these issues are real or not? Well, you need to determine how widespread the problem is and do some testing. You don't make assumptions based on the loudness of the media.

Apple discovered that 0.55% of buyers complained to AppleCare and that 1.7% of iP4s were actually returned. Where else should you look for data if not from your own warranty group or channel partners? People are still not satisfied with the data, but it was sufficient for Apple to determine that there is a problem affecting a minority of iP4 buyers. Apple is addressing the solution to the MINORITY of iP4 buyers by offering a free bumper, reimbursement for an already purchased bumper, an exchange, or a refund without penalty. On top of that, Apple took the time to show that other smartphones behave in very similar, if not identical, ways. I can attest to the fact that my Palm Treo would always drop a call when held in my left hand regardless of signal strength. If I held the Treo in my left hand up to my left ear, calls drop immediately. Nobody made a big stink about that, or what a crappy network Verizon had, etc.

So, what more is Apple supposed to do? If you're not happy, get a refund. If you feel "locked" into Apple's ecosystem, then keep your 3GS which is still a fantastic smartphone and be happy. It's the CONSUMER who has the choice whether or not to buy a specific product. If you must have an iPhone but can't put up with this horrible, terrible defect that is really a non-issue, then get the iPhone 3GS.

Apple happens to feel that this issue affects a tiny minority of its customers based on hard data. Those claiming otherwise, where is their data? If you feel differently, and somehow feel an entitlement to an iPhone 4 just because, then it's time to have your head examined. These are the options people - buy or don't buy. Keep it or return it. Get a bumper or not. You have choices and nobody is twisting your arm to do anything.

Apple is one of the only companies that would go to this extent to keep its customers happy. I don't see HTC, Blackberry, or Samsung offering free cases even though their phones behave in exactly the same manner as the iP4. Yet everyone is screaming at Apple.

The next outcry will come on September 30th when Apple will announce a modified version of the iP4 which doesn't have this issue. Why would Apple limit free bumpers to September 30 unless they were planning on having the issue permanently solved by then? At several points in the presentation and during the Q&A afterward, Jobs hinted that they are looking at other ways to solve this issue and they may have a permanent solution soon.

EXACTLY !

But you just wasted a lot of your time, with that reasonable post.
Whiners and naysayers here are not going to read it.
They are "experienced RF engineers", much better than Apple's.

Nokia is 150 years old. It was playing a central role in the development of GSM while Apple was about as communications-savvy as... well, AppleTalk. Today it employs around 30,000 people in R&D spearheaded by the Nokia Research Centre. It occasionally releases promotional videos about its testing processes, and if you make an effort you can even find out, for example, who supplies its acoustic testing facilities.

Apple makes pretty 'phones and good UIs.

Try harder.


The /antenna/ page has been up for all of a day. If they wanted to make a response, I'd hope they'd take more than 24 hours. But I think the rest of the Internet is doing a good enough job pointing and laughing at the mad preacher.

OMG !
And Nokia with "all its experience" still make smartphones like E71, E66 and N97 whom BEHAVE IN THE SAME EXACT WAY OF IPHONES !!!!
Try again, professor

Other phones do not behave in exactly the same manner, because they don't consistently drop their signal a hundredfold just by placing a single finger in a fairly common location.

The reason Apple gets extra grief is for being so cavalier about it, and because any company sets themselves up as a target when they claim something radically different will be great. (Remember RIM saying their TouchPress screen was so cool?)

I think we all agree that Apple is going to redesign their antenna.



Nokia says "We prioritize antenna performance over form"

RIM says it's unacceptable for Apple to try to drag others into their own screwup

Another one quoting Nokia's BS ...

Give me a favor: write an email to Nokia requesting for an explanation about E71 behavior

I wonder why Nokia doesn't mention the E71?

opssss, they forgot it.
And E66, and N97 ....

 

[Treefu]

...

Slow down, I don't get what you're after... Are you saying we should all applaud Apple and be grateful they can keep up with their competitors as opposed to being able to stay ahead?

 

[Max(IT)]

*facepalm* re-read what I said without skipping the detail.

Incidentally, I didn't hear one Apple engineer freely speaking yesterday. And I don't recall Apple receiving papal infallibility to apply argument by authority.

You didn't, BECAUSE YOU ARE "MISTER NO-ONE" and you weren't at the Apple Campus, with all due respect (seriously no offense implied).
Apple gave a selection of reporters the opportunity for a tour in their facility, GUIDED BY THEIR SENIOR RF ENGINEER.

What design? And it always depends on what's between "external" and "internal", doesn't it?


Objective: two adjacent antennas on a handgrip!
Design proposal: do not shield antennas!!
Pro: ...?

I don't know, and YOU DON'T KNOW NEITHER, because we didn't test it.
Maybe a better SNR that compensate the attenuation effect ?

It happens on every antenna without exception. Electromagnetism 101 explains it. Everyone with the slightest interest in RF knows it already. Apple has taught everyone nothing they don't already know.

This is why 'phones are designed with the antennas positioned and shielded so that holding the 'phone normally does not cause significant attenuation.

Apple failed at this. Apple's

• failure to follow well-established design practice, their
• failure to admit to their mistake, and their
• failure to treat their customers and competitors other than as fools

means Apple is getting the media response it deserves.

That is PLAIN WRONG. Apple (and a lot of YouTube videos, if you dare searching a little bit ...) showed us that quite a lot of other good smartphones had SIGNIFICANT ATTENUATION, with an internal antenna.
My son's N97 has the same, exact issue.
EXACTLY THE SAME.


BTW, Apple DO NOT FOLLOW, and I'm very happy with that.

 

[Anuba]

I went into a similar room once at Ericsson, back when they made their own cellphones (before they became SonyEricsson). It's downright creepy because there's absolute silence with no reflections or background noise. You clap your hands and the sound waves die immediately. You hear your clothes rustling loudly even if they're made from cotton. You hear ringing in your ears you didn't realize you had and it feels like you're in a vacuum and your brain is about to be sucked out through your ears. Being locked inside one of those chambers for a few hours is probably torture every bit as efficient as waterboarding.

Can we please put the "they didn't discover the problem because they only tested it with the 3GS dummy case on!" theory to rest now?

 

[Max(IT)]

Slow down, I don't get what you're after... Are you saying we should all applaud Apple and be grateful they can keep up with their competitors as opposed to being able to stay ahead?

Absolutely not.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not so happy about iphone reception.
I'm just saying this is much ado about NOTHING.

This is a fabricated hysteria to bash a successful company, fueled by the numerous Apple haters on tech geek's forums.

 

[kirk26]

Impressive, most impressive.

 

[MrRage]

These rooms are all fine and dandy for reception testing but no one is going to hold their phones using none conductive rods and rubber bands... So really they are simulating a textbook environment, which is fine if everything in our world was a textbook. Only one of the rooms in the demonstration had the phone being healed by a technician while being tested.

I do have to give Apple credit where it is deserved. I was pleasantly surprised to see the device work as well as it does. I cringed when I saw this design unvalued at WWDC... I couldn't believe they purposely made the antenna in this way. But it does work.

 

[budselectjr]

On the weekends they do testing for the FCC.

 

[NT1440]

These rooms are all fine and dandy for reception testing but no one is going to hold their phones using none conductive rods and rubber bands... So really they are simulating a textbook environment, which is fine if everything in our world was a textbook. Only one of the rooms in the demonstration had the phone being healed by a technician while being tested.

I do have to give Apple credit where it is deserved. I was pleasantly surprised to see the device work as well as it does. I cringed when I saw this design unvalued at WWDC... I couldn't believe they purposely made the antenna in this way. But it does work.

Again, someone who either didn't read up, didn't listen, or just didn't want to.

Try reading up on their testing again, you might find something you're missing.

 

[silentnite]

It's a nice chamber in all and I'm sure it serves it's purpose. However, in the real world your surrounded by 100's & thousand's of people on all kinds of mobile devices. You just can't turn to them and say could you all do me a favor help me out and get off of wifi I'm trying to connect. This device can't be big only on apps and such. It's got to work or it's got to go back. I expect apple to put my hard earned money to work. Simple as that.

 

[Veri]

You didn't, BECAUSE YOU ARE "MISTER NO-ONE" and you weren't at the Apple Campus

Why are you so angry? Apple messed up. They're not perfect. They're only humans.

I was looking forward to an Apple engineer speaking during the conference/Q&A to explain their design decisions and give an insight into why they made the mistake they did. No man needs to fly half way across the world to hear that. It would be a waste of time and energy and I doubt Apple would invite someone who wasn't likely to go slack-jawed at routine testing equipment.

Apple gave a selection of reporters the opportunity for a tour in their facility, GUIDED BY THEIR SENIOR RF ENGINEER.

So, no engineer speaking freely at the conference with the opportunity to explain his decisions and answer questions from domain specialists. Just a few clueless (in the sense that they're not representatives of specialist RF publications, not in the sense that they're idiots) reporters given a tour of a room which most involved in the field would be accustomed to.

I don't know, and YOU DON'T KNOW NEITHER, because we didn't test it. Maybe a better SNR that compensate the attenuation effect ?

And maybe Intelligent Design just possibly has something going for it. There's no evidence whatever, and we can't rule it out, so let's just say it might be true because goodness knows none of us have $100,000,000 of equipment to prove otherwise. "There's no evidence but you can't prove me wrong," is the worst sort of science.

quite a lot of other good smartphones had SIGNIFICANT ATTENUATION, with an internal antenna.

How did they show this, please? Because I don't recall their even going into diagnostic menus for vaguely accurate signal readings (as opposed to subjective, model-dependent "bars"). Nor do I recall their dismantling the 'phones to contrast behaviour with the antenna placed inside vs outside the 'phone.

BTW, Apple DO NOT FOLLOW, and I'm very happy with that.

No, Apple pretty much do. They publish the least research of all the leading tech companies, and it's hard to pinpoint any significant technical firsts coming from Apple's campus. What they're fairly good at is integrating existing good ideas into a simple, usable product to appeal to the non-tech. They're also one of the very few tech companies who know how to market their products as "cool". These two things have made them really successful. Invention has not.

 

[Max(IT)]

Again, someone who either didn't read up, didn't listen, or just didn't want to.

Try reading up on their testing again, you might find something you're missing.

right ...

A lot of people here didn't read the Q&A, didn't watch the presentation.
They just make assumption based on nothing ....

"Apple is wrong, because .... is wrong. Because it is Apple, I hate Apple and it should be wrong. If Jobs try to explain me his thoughts, well, he clearly is wrong because I hate Steve Jobs"

 

[Yebot]

Impressive, most impressive.

indeed.





Also ....

This bickering is pointless.

 

[Anuba]

This is a fabricated hysteria to bash a successful company

If all this is the work of some mysterious FUD patrol, then how come they never did this before? The original iPhone had issues. The 3G had issues. The 3GS had issues (discoloration of the white model, etc). The iPad had issues (the dynamic IP allocation screwup that made some university ban it). Yet none of those problems gained any mainstream media traction.

And it's not like the iPhone didn't become a threat to competitors until now, that happened long ago. You can think up all sorts of conspiracy theories, but the fact is that this bandwagon was driven by iPhone 4 users themselves. They're the ones who complained on forums, they're the ones who experienced all the dropped calls and posted all those YouTube videos. There's no mysterious group of men in black out there who can control CNN, BBC, NY Times, WSJ, FOX, ABC, MSNBC and hundreds of news channels and newspapers around the world.

Yes, there were some contributing factors that fuelled the fire:

1) The story broke in the middle of the summer news draught
2) Apple marketed the phone like the second coming of Jesus and drove expectations beyond all sense and reason
3) Steve's arrogant "don't hold it that way" email
4) Apple's lack of early response allowed the story to run amok
5) Apple's sudden decision to make iPhone cases (or "bumpers") for the first time appeared to support the notion that they knew this would be an issue, and charging $30 for a band-aid is more ballsy than most people can take.

 

[Max(IT)]

Why are you so angry? Apple messed up. They're not perfect. They're only humans.

Because I'm pretty sick about all this BS about a non-existent issue.
They are not perfect, but they made the BEST smartphone of the market, once again.

I was looking forward to an Apple engineer speaking during the conference/Q&A to explain their design decisions and give an insight into why they made the mistake they did. No man needs to fly half way across the world to hear that. It would be a waste of time and energy and I doubt Apple would invite someone who wasn't likely to go slack-jawed at routine testing equipment.

and you know very little about Apple, looking for something like that.
Jobs always is on the front line, when Apple is in discussion.

So, no engineer speaking freely at the conference with the opportunity to explain his decisions and answer questions from domain specialists. Just a few clueless (in the sense that they're not representatives of specialist RF publications, not in the sense that they're idiots) reporters given a tour of a room which most involved in the field would be accustomed to.

all this mess is about bloggers and journalist, not RF specialists.

And maybe Intelligent Design just possibly has something going for it. There's no evidence whatever, and we can't rule it out, so let's just say it might be true because goodness knows none of us have $100,000,000 of equipment to prove otherwise. "There's no evidence but you can't prove me wrong," is the worst sort of science.

Apple engineers are .... well .... engineers. And they are experienced, and they are selected, and they are well paid. And they have very good equipment.
So it's not about "you can't prove me wrong", it's about trusting them more than I can trust you.

How did they show this, please? Because I don't recall their even going into diagnostic menus for vaguely accurate signal readings (as opposed to subjective, model-dependent "bars"). Nor do I recall their dismantling the 'phones to contrast behaviour with the antenna placed inside vs outside the 'phone.

Let me understand.
So the "bars drop videos" are good enough ONLY TO BASH IPHONE 4 ???
If Apple shows us other phones with the same behavior it is not a valid argument ?
Interesting point of view ... (facepalm)

No, Apple pretty much do. They publish the least research of all the leading tech companies, and it's hard to pinpoint any significant technical firsts coming from Apple's campus. What they're fairly good at is integrating existing good ideas into a simple, usable product to appeal to the non-tech. They're also one of the very few tech companies who know how to market their products as "cool". These two things have made them really successful. Invention has not.

no, they don't.
99% of the smartphone on the market nowadays resemble of the iphone. In 2007 99% of the smartphones on the market were totally different.
It isn't normal evolution.
It's the market following Apple's steps. Because they are successful.