Tacky plastic eh. Wasn't it the coolest, sleekest looking shell ever seen on the back of a cellphone?
OOOOOOooooceeaaaaaaniaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOCEEEEEEaaaaaa -aaaaaa - niaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....
Back to the grave
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A Look Inside Apple's Wireless Testing Facilities
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Tacky plastic eh. Wasn't it the coolest, sleekest looking shell ever seen on the back of a cellphone?
OOOOOOooooceeaaaaaaniaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOCEEEEEEaaaaaa -aaaaaa - niaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa....
Back to the grave
You've been sucked in by the marketing my friend. The 0.55% figure is pretty meaningless since we don't know the percentage of people likely to report the issue via AppleCare, and it's far too premature to compare return statistics to the iPhone 3GS when the iPhone 4 has only been out a few weeks.
Apple has the technology to determine the exact signal loss of the iPhone 4 in dB (like Anandtech did) and to compare this to every other phone on the market when held normally. Instead, what they do is first change the display of bars (so as to minimise the number of bars lost on the iPhone) in the lead up to publishing this page, where they hand pick three other phones and show only the loss of visual bars (a meaningless comparison between phones) for grips tailored to the weakness of each phone. I mean, just look at how tightly that guy is gripping the top of his HTC Droid Eris for goodness sakes — it looks painful, and his thumb is turning bright pink.
Now why do you suppose that is?
Wow. Please be sure you don't seek a career in any technology field. Your complete lack of comprehension of a scientifically-based development methdology is showing through like polka-dot underwear under a white skirt.
What The Haters Still Believe
SJ used duct tape to affix an iPhone 4 to a lab rat and then put the rat in the RF chamber to scurry around...then SJ et al went for lattes.
They opened the door 2 hours, retrieved the now dead rat (micro-waved), and declared the iPhone 4 a success!!!
Come on haters...you KNOW this is YOUR scenario!!!
SJ used duct tape to affix an iPhone 4 to a lab rat and then put the rat in the RF chamber to scurry around...then SJ et al went for lattes.
They opened the door 2 hours, retrieved the now dead rat (micro-waved), and declared the iPhone 4 a success!!!
Come on haters...you KNOW this is YOUR scenario!!!
Because Apple is trying to imitate the consumers/wannabe cell phone engineers that are being bitchy little kids.
I'm going to make a prediction here
That it won't take long now before we see a comprehensive and scientifically rigorous independent report tabulating actual signal strength for all the significant smart phones on the market, including the signal loss when held 'normally', using a large group of test participants with the results averaged out. Whichever company currently has the best antenna performance would be mad not to sponsor such a test. Either that, or some underfunded lab somewhere will want to get on the map by doing the experiment.
I have to laugh at all the experts on this forum. Most have no idea about acoustics, dead rooms or anything else related to this article but they write drivel so someone thinks they know what they are talking about. I wonder if Samsung, Nokia, Motorola and the rest have a 100 million dollar antenna testing lab? If they do, they sure are mum about it.
They are also mum about Apple claiming all cell phones have similar antenna issues. You would think if Apple was wrong Samsung, Nokia and the rest would be screaming like banshies wouldnt you?
I think too ,people forget what Apple has actually done for the cell phone consumer. Before the iPhone most cell phones looked like crap (many still do I guess it cost lots more money to design a good looking cell phone from a lookalike that most are putting out). Apple pretty much broke the cell phone companys death hold on the industry. We are not yet where Europe and the rest of the world is but we have made great gains thanks mostly to Apple and the iPhone.
The nay sayers said the original iPhone wouldnt sell the iPad wouldnt sell if you dont like the product dont buy it. If you already have and feel you got screwed, take it back and get a full refund. Simple! Quit your bitching.
They are also mum about Apple claiming all cell phones have similar antenna issues. You would think if Apple was wrong Samsung, Nokia and the rest would be screaming like banshies wouldnt you?
I think too ,people forget what Apple has actually done for the cell phone consumer. Before the iPhone most cell phones looked like crap (many still do I guess it cost lots more money to design a good looking cell phone from a lookalike that most are putting out). Apple pretty much broke the cell phone companys death hold on the industry. We are not yet where Europe and the rest of the world is but we have made great gains thanks mostly to Apple and the iPhone.
The nay sayers said the original iPhone wouldnt sell the iPad wouldnt sell if you dont like the product dont buy it. If you already have and feel you got screwed, take it back and get a full refund. Simple! Quit your bitching.
Nokia is 150 years old. It was playing a central role in the development of GSM while Apple was about as communications-savvy as... well, AppleTalk. Today it employs around 30,000 people in R&D spearheaded by the Nokia Research Centre. It occasionally releases promotional videos about its testing processes, and if you make an effort you can even find out, for example, who supplies its acoustic testing facilities.
Apple makes pretty 'phones and good UIs.
Try harder.
The /antenna/ page has been up for all of a day. If they wanted to make a response, I'd hope they'd take more than 24 hours. But I think the rest of the Internet is doing a good enough job pointing and laughing at the mad preacher.
Because there is nothing like an expert from the internet. I still think most of the whining is coming from non-ip4 owners.
And I think its import what Apple did because guess what every person that owns one of those phones is going to try it.
ac-cu-rate
-adjective
1.free from error or defect; consistent with a standard, rule, or model; precise; exact.
2.careful or meticulous: an accurate typist.
pre-cise
-adjective
1.definitely or strictly stated, defined, or fixed: precise directions.
2.being exactly that and neither more nor less: a precise temperature; a precise amount.
3.being just that and no other: the precise dress she had wanted.
4.definite or exact in statement, as a person.
5.carefully distinct: precise articulation.
6.exact in measuring, recording, etc.: a precise instrument.
7.excessively or rigidly particular: precise observance of regulations; precise grooming.
I'm not seeing a real big difference here.
What about Consumer Reports, their testing wasn't done in the field. Same difference right?
So...what would make you happy?
Fine. Here's my question: Keeping in mind that there is no such thing as a Time Machine, so there's no way Steve can go back and change the design, launch, etc. of the iPhone4--it's done and, bad, good or indifferent, it's now in the unchangeable past....what would make you STOP saying all this? What would satisfy you? What would Steve Jobs have to (1) have said at the press conference? (2) have shown you at the press conference to convince you that yes, they tested the **** out of this thing? And that design-wise and all the rest, it really is the best it could be, and that it's equal or better to most smartphones in calls, and there was no known design flaw before launch, and there is none now? That these drops are just a flaw in all smartphones? And that NO one, not even Apple, has yet figured out a way around it?
Is there anything on Earth he could have said or shown you to make you believe any of that?
Or how about this: assuming you're completely right, that they didn't test it right or enough, that there was a design flaw and they knew it, that they picked form over function, etc.--assuming all the conspiracy theories you've created are right...what would you want him to have said at that press conference? And if he's said it, would you have forgiven him? Would it have made you feel better?
So far, it seems that all of you who are saying such things are only after one thing: Steve Jobs coming out, screaming, "I'm a lair, a sham and a failure! Apple created the worst phone ever and it was all my fault. We duped you all and I'm sorry!" And then blow his brains out on stage with a big gun.
I'm sure you're grinning happily now at that image, but, alas for you, it's probably not going to happen. I am curious, however, if that's the only thing that would make you happy. I'm also curious as to why, if you feel this is all deception and such, the idea of not buying the phone (or returning it) isn't a good enough either. What more, as a consumer, can you hope for than to return, for a full refund, something that is defective or not making you happy? I'd be interested in understanding your point of view and whether anything Steve Jobs could say or show you or do for that matter would be taken as satisfactory.
Hmmm. Okay. I'll bite. I'll agree that there's spin going on here, of course there is. But a number of you keep saying, "Not impressed!" and "Stawmen numbers" and "smoke and mirrors" and that it's all "distraction"--and that if any of us trust anything said or shown at the press conference, we're just buying "tripe."
Fine. Here's my question: Keeping in mind that there is no such thing as a Time Machine, so there's no way Steve can go back and change the design, launch, etc. of the iPhone4--it's done and, bad, good or indifferent, it's now in the unchangeable past....what would make you STOP saying all this? What would satisfy you? What would Steve Jobs have to (1) have said at the press conference? (2) have shown you at the press conference to convince you that yes, they tested the **** out of this thing? And that design-wise and all the rest, it really is the best it could be, and that it's equal or better to most smartphones in calls, and there was no known design flaw before launch, and there is none now? That these drops are just a flaw in all smartphones? And that NO one, not even Apple, has yet figured out a way around it?
Is there anything on Earth he could have said or shown you to make you believe any of that?
Or how about this: assuming you're completely right, that they didn't test it right or enough, that there was a design flaw and they knew it, that they picked form over function, etc.--assuming all the conspiracy theories you've created are right...what would you want him to have said at that press conference? And if he's said it, would you have forgiven him? Would it have made you feel better?
So far, it seems that all of you who are saying such things are only after one thing: Steve Jobs coming out, screaming, "I'm a lair, a sham and a failure! Apple created the worst phone ever and it was all my fault. We duped you all and I'm sorry!" And then blow his brains out on stage with a big gun.
I'm sure you're grinning happily now at that image, but, alas for you, it's probably not going to happen. I am curious, however, if that's the only thing that would make you happy. I'm also curious as to why, if you feel this is all deception and such, the idea of not buying the phone (or returning it) isn't a good enough either. What more, as a consumer, can you hope for than to return, for a full refund, something that is defective or not making you happy?
I'd be interested in understanding your point of view and whether anything Steve Jobs could say or show you or do for that matter would be taken as satisfactory.Fortunately, all these 'phones are still fit for purpose because neither being left-handed nor any other reasonable usage is sufficient to significantly interfere with communication. IOW just holding the 'phone to do the job it was made for does not cause me to come into direct contact with two antennas and electrically connect them.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that some of the information on that page comes as a surprise to most users - people seem to use electronics without having the first idea how it works. It doesn't go an inch to explaining away the problem, however.
People criticise Apple's BS PR and you go to a suicide hyperbole? Really?thirteen1031 said:
How about: "We were wrong to put the antenna there. If you can cope with it, perhaps with a free case, that's cool. Otherwise, please feel free to send it back. We're going to consider how to update the design and we'll get back to you [soon]." No misdirection. No hating on other companies which have spent more hours on 'phone R&D over the last century than Apple has sold 'phones. To reiterate:
(1) Our unique design was wrong, and we acknowledge that no-one else uses this design;
(2) Sorry;
(3) We'll get back to you with a redesign.
From someone with an engineering background
Despite hardly anyone really taking my comments seriously, I'm still gonna say them just because I might feel better having thrown my 2¢ into the vast abyss.
For starters, Apple's stating a bunch of facts, every antenna needs a way of radiating and antenna's are tuned with baseband filters and the like, this means you can't just place a piece of metal in the system and it'll 'just work' absolutely perfectly. An RF system is quite complex and the complexities don't just 'end' at the antenna.
I say this with experience working on radios and working with people that work at a certain company who (arguably) started the damn cell phone industry (do some research).
In saying this, every antenna has certain cons/pros, either it will work great in 90% of scenarios, or it won't be sensitive enough to work in fringe areas, but these are tradeoffs that everyone makes. Apple's trade-off was 'hey we can still get it in this form factor, and there's just this tiny spot that if avoided we still have a good antenna'
Another thing most people don't realize, we live in a digital cell world, that means a lot of 1's 0's and error correction, despite your 'signal strength' you're still communicating with a tower. This means you don't need this insane signal strength to place a call or even do data transfers. Worst case scenarios, your phone is getting a bunch of wrong data, after this happens for so long and a 'signal' is lost, call gets dropped. Cell phone technology is very amazing at its heart. Just think of when you're going from tower to tower while driving, you don't get a dropped call and the conversation continues from one tower to another (hopefully, again this is based on hundreds of factors). Many times this happens and you as a user don't 'know' that a trade-off just happens. This digital world has many blessings, enjoy it.
There are many components to just get a cell phone call connected, in saying this, your 'phone quality' is dependent on:
Your microphone, your speaker, your cell phone's RF capabilities, cell phone coverage in your area, wether you are moving, covering antenna, etc. and now combine these factors by whatever factors on the other end. The fact that we can even place a damn call even 90% of the time without one if not more of these factors preventing us is absolutely amazing. Yet some people are pissed that they have control of some factors ...
When it comes down to it, no one has a gun to your head and is telling you to, hold a phone a certain way, and to actually keep the damn phone. If you're that pissed off, pay the ETF if you're in a contract, and go somewhere else. Your complaining is not worth it, honestly, if you have anything better to do than complain, go and do it, life is short. There are plenty of other options out there that are just as viable. Be happy you at least have a choice, there are many far worse things in life that are circumstantial and are not a choice.
For the record, I have two phones, one is an android phone, the other is an iPhone 4. I have not had any problems with my iPhone 4 other than getting teased beyond belief at work (many from certain engineers who are of the overly proud type). I use my iPhone on the way to work to listen to audiobooks, at my desk listening to music, and then on the way back from work listening to audiobooks, at the end of the day my android phone is usually dead from just sitting in a no coverage area by my desk, and my iPhone is usually at 50%. That's even after using the many apps that I have installed on the iPhone. I have yet to find a "stellar" app on google marketplace.
(This is just my way of venting, this is my first post on this topic anywhere)
Despite hardly anyone really taking my comments seriously, I'm still gonna say them just because I might feel better having thrown my 2¢ into the vast abyss.
For starters, Apple's stating a bunch of facts, every antenna needs a way of radiating and antenna's are tuned with baseband filters and the like, this means you can't just place a piece of metal in the system and it'll 'just work' absolutely perfectly. An RF system is quite complex and the complexities don't just 'end' at the antenna.
I say this with experience working on radios and working with people that work at a certain company who (arguably) started the damn cell phone industry (do some research).
In saying this, every antenna has certain cons/pros, either it will work great in 90% of scenarios, or it won't be sensitive enough to work in fringe areas, but these are tradeoffs that everyone makes. Apple's trade-off was 'hey we can still get it in this form factor, and there's just this tiny spot that if avoided we still have a good antenna'
Another thing most people don't realize, we live in a digital cell world, that means a lot of 1's 0's and error correction, despite your 'signal strength' you're still communicating with a tower. This means you don't need this insane signal strength to place a call or even do data transfers. Worst case scenarios, your phone is getting a bunch of wrong data, after this happens for so long and a 'signal' is lost, call gets dropped. Cell phone technology is very amazing at its heart. Just think of when you're going from tower to tower while driving, you don't get a dropped call and the conversation continues from one tower to another (hopefully, again this is based on hundreds of factors). Many times this happens and you as a user don't 'know' that a trade-off just happens. This digital world has many blessings, enjoy it.
There are many components to just get a cell phone call connected, in saying this, your 'phone quality' is dependent on:
Your microphone, your speaker, your cell phone's RF capabilities, cell phone coverage in your area, wether you are moving, covering antenna, etc. and now combine these factors by whatever factors on the other end. The fact that we can even place a damn call even 90% of the time without one if not more of these factors preventing us is absolutely amazing. Yet some people are pissed that they have control of some factors ...
When it comes down to it, no one has a gun to your head and is telling you to, hold a phone a certain way, and to actually keep the damn phone. If you're that pissed off, pay the ETF if you're in a contract, and go somewhere else. Your complaining is not worth it, honestly, if you have anything better to do than complain, go and do it, life is short. There are plenty of other options out there that are just as viable. Be happy you at least have a choice, there are many far worse things in life that are circumstantial and are not a choice.
For the record, I have two phones, one is an android phone, the other is an iPhone 4. I have not had any problems with my iPhone 4 other than getting teased beyond belief at work (many from certain engineers who are of the overly proud type). I use my iPhone on the way to work to listen to audiobooks, at my desk listening to music, and then on the way back from work listening to audiobooks, at the end of the day my android phone is usually dead from just sitting in a no coverage area by my desk, and my iPhone is usually at 50%. That's even after using the many apps that I have installed on the iPhone. I have yet to find a "stellar" app on google marketplace.
(This is just my way of venting, this is my first post on this topic anywhere)
The best thing Apple could do is offer iphone 4 on Verizon. Then when everyone sees that the dropped call issue disappears due to better network coverage, AT&T will be exposed once and for all.
Apple covered for AT&T by making the signal bars look better than they should have. Notice how Steve refused to give the actual percentage of dropped calls. This probably is because if people heard that the dropped call rate was over 20% on the AT&T network for 3G, 3gS, and IP4 users, everyone would want a refund from AT&T for subpar service.
The reason people are seeing more dropped calls on iphone4 is because the network is getting worse as more users are added. AT&T has been pocketing both iphone sales money and government tax money instead of improving the network. They need to be punished.
Apple covered for AT&T by making the signal bars look better than they should have. Notice how Steve refused to give the actual percentage of dropped calls. This probably is because if people heard that the dropped call rate was over 20% on the AT&T network for 3G, 3gS, and IP4 users, everyone would want a refund from AT&T for subpar service.
The reason people are seeing more dropped calls on iphone4 is because the network is getting worse as more users are added. AT&T has been pocketing both iphone sales money and government tax money instead of improving the network. They need to be punished.
Please.
PLEASE! Stop using common sense! I'm sure I speak for many on this forum when I say you're really hurting my brain.
PLEASE! Stop using common sense! I'm sure I speak for many on this forum when I say you're really hurting my brain.
Oh, I don't know might have to do with some of the latest headlines. Apple as if saying, "here we do all that we can."
Steve didn't give the exact number because as he said, AT & T didn't give him the numbers, but told him that the iPhone 4 number was less than one call per hundred more than the 3GS. He was hiding nothing here.
Other phones do not behave in exactly the same manner, because they don't consistently drop their signal a hundredfold just by placing a single finger in a fairly common location.
The reason Apple gets extra grief is for being so cavalier about it, and because any company sets themselves up as a target when they claim something radically different will be great. (Remember RIM saying their TouchPress screen was so cool?)
I think we all agree that Apple is going to redesign their antenna.
Nokia says "We prioritize antenna performance over form"
RIM says it's unacceptable for Apple to try to drag others into their own screwup
I have never seen an iPhone 4 in my life, so based on what I saw on the internet in the past weeks, I really thought that it had a huge issue, that holding the phone and accidentally touching the bottom left corner with your pinky finger would always result in the connection going down to zero and the call dropping. It was all the data I had, not knowing anyone who ones an iPhone 4 and not owning one myself.
Now after yesterday's keynote, I really understood what the media and forums can do. They take one small issue and make everyone talk about it, just like rolling a snowball that gets bigger and bigger.
Since the iPhone 4 is popular, this issue received so much attention that in comparison, we heard nothing about any other phone in the world, which made everyone thing those phones had no problems at all. I have never owned a smartphone, so once again, I cannot say anything about that. All I know is that "normal" phones probably have enough space inside to have antennas that are big enough, while smartphones are more prone to such problems due to the limited space, caused by the large number of components inside.
I think Steve did a good job to lay down the facts and to convince people of what is really happening. He proved that the problem is almost not a problem, but just to make everyone happy, people will still be getting free bumpers. Why would he have changed the iPhone 4 hardware, when he just proved that the issue has always been there in many other smartphones? There is nothing to fix basically, and there is nothing Apple could have done about this small issue other than give away cases.
Now after yesterday's keynote, I really understood what the media and forums can do. They take one small issue and make everyone talk about it, just like rolling a snowball that gets bigger and bigger.
Since the iPhone 4 is popular, this issue received so much attention that in comparison, we heard nothing about any other phone in the world, which made everyone thing those phones had no problems at all. I have never owned a smartphone, so once again, I cannot say anything about that. All I know is that "normal" phones probably have enough space inside to have antennas that are big enough, while smartphones are more prone to such problems due to the limited space, caused by the large number of components inside.
I think Steve did a good job to lay down the facts and to convince people of what is really happening. He proved that the problem is almost not a problem, but just to make everyone happy, people will still be getting free bumpers. Why would he have changed the iPhone 4 hardware, when he just proved that the issue has always been there in many other smartphones? There is nothing to fix basically, and there is nothing Apple could have done about this small issue other than give away cases.
I wonder why Nokia doesn't mention the E71?
Yeah, that one had overall transceiver problems, didn't it
Someone else on a blog put it better:
A difference is that other makers have lots of models and updates, so if you have a problem with a phone that you like, you can choose a similar item elsewhere... whereas Apple only has one design per year.