A Place for Corporal Punishment in Child Rearing?

[Huntn]

I am in close proximity to a 3 year old visiting us who anytime she does not get what she want goes into tantrum mode fairly quickly and during this time, if you speak to them, trying to resolve the issue, they respond by shrieking at the top of their lungs, as in "what's wrong"? SCREAM. "why are you mad?" SCREAM!!! "I'm sorry, but you can't have ice cream as your dinner." SCREAM!!!!!!!

I attribute this to a lack of discipline, her parents just send her to her room and let her scream until she wears out. Of interest, she will later appear as if everything is wonderful, and nothing happened.

When I had young kids, I believed there was a time for swats, sometimes if words did not work, a well applied pinch resolved an issue quickly. Note I said swats and pinches, not beatings. It seems to me that if you child never gets a swat, the sky is the limit for bad behavior if they have nothing to fear in response. Opinions?

BTW, not my grandchild if you were thinking this and I do not apply any corporal punishment, just send her to her room. I’m tempted to carry a set of ear plugs.

Edit: To clarify, we have a grandparent relationship with these kids, but are not their biological grandparents.

 

[eyoungren]

I am in close proximity to a 3 year old visiting us who anytime they do not get what they want goes into tantrum mode fairly quickly and during this time, if you speak to them, trying to resolve the issue, they respond by shrieking at the top of their lungs, as in "what's wrong"? SCREAM. "why are you mad?" SCREAM!!! "I'm sorry, but you can't have ice cream as your dinner." SCREAM!!!!!!!

I attribute this to a lack of discipline, her parents just send her to her room and let her scream until she wears out. Of interest, she will later appear as if everything is wonderful, and nothing happened.

When I had young kids, I believed there was a time for swats, sometimes if words did not work, a well applied pinch resolved an issue quickly. Note I said swats and pinches, not beatings. It seems to me that if you child never gets a swat, the sky is the limit for bad behavior if they have nothing to fear in response. Opinions?

BTW, not my grandchild if you were thinking this and I do not apply any corporal punishment, just send her to her room.

I'm Gen-X, but I was raised by Silent Generation parents. My dad is ex-Marine Corps (Korean War veteran), so all the way around I was raised with a relatively unforgiving set of rules.

I was 12 when my dad stopped using the belt and the thing is that for some of the trouble I got in after that I generally wished it had still been employed. A couple of swats and the punishment was over.

Instead, I got groundings and stuff taken away.

I had to use the belt only once on my son and my daughter was smart enough not to ever push things that far.

My son did try a tantrum once when he was about 4 or 5. He threw himself down in the Walmart parking lot when we were walking in because he was not getting his way. Unfortunately for him, he picked the wrong day to do this - not because of me or my wife. It was summer in Phoenix at the height of the day. About 110-112º.

He got up off that black asphalt VERY quickly and he never tried a tantrum again.

Too many parents either want to be their kid's friend or just don't want to deal with behavior. The end result is a kid manipulating the parent. You aren't there to be their friend, that's what they have kids their age for. You're there to be their parent, guide and correct. And if putting in that work is not something you are prepared or willing to do then the question is - why did you have kids to begin with?

My wife used to weary of always doing the work and a lot of times I ended up being the 'bad cop'. But I used to tell her that it would pay off when they got older.

The fact that we have decently behaved kids who can control themselves and are polite and respectful is the result of all of our work. Our job is to turn out independent, responsible individuals who can think, reason and do for themselves and our kids reflect that effort we've put into it.

 

[chown33]

...
My son did try a tantrum once when he was about 4 or 5. He threw himself down in the Walmart parking lot when we were walking in because he was not getting his way. Unfortunately for him, he picked the wrong day to do this - not because of me or my wife. It was summer in Phoenix at the height of the day. About 110-112º.

He got up off that black asphalt VERY quickly and he never tried a tantrum again.

There are times when simple unvarnished reality is the best teacher.

 

[Nermal]

There was never a belt involved when I was a kid; it was "go and get the wooden spoon". It only happened a few times!

 

[0388631]

Don't recall anything physical apart from pulling me away and putting me into my room when I was a wee lad. My father was a military man early on in his life and was somewhat strict but also understanding. Problematic children are usually the rest of bad parenting. Allowing your child to go to their room and scream is pure bad parenting. Cautioning and making a child understand through short simple explanations is best. And none of that behave and I'll reward you crap.

 

[eyoungren]

There was never a belt involved when I was a kid; it was "go and get the wooden spoon". It only happened a few times!

'Belt' was a euphemism growing up. It was indeed a belt more than once, but there were more than a few times when something else stood in.

Outside of the house, corporal punishment was very much a thing in Christian schools during the 80s. More than once 'belt' was another word for wooden paddle.

 

[0388631]

'Belt' was a euphemism growing up. It was indeed a belt more than once, but there were more than a few times when something else stood in.

Outside of the house, corporal punishment was very much a thing in Christian schools during the 80s. More than once 'belt' was another word for wooden paddle.

No offense, but your response is a little worrying.

 

[eyoungren]

No offense, but your response is a little worrying.

I get that.

I meant from the perspective of the types of things used to paddle misbehaving children. Belts, wood spoons, etc. I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Things didn't start really changing until the late 90s, 00s.

 

[0388631]

I get that.

I meant from the perspective of the types of things used to paddle misbehaving children. Belts, wood spoons, etc. I grew up in the 70s and 80s. Things didn't start really changing until the late 90s, 00s.

I know, I'm older than you. It's that your reply made it sound like you were abused.

 

[eyoungren]

I know, I'm older than you. It's that your reply made it sound like you were abused.

No, not at all.

For the record, I did get into trouble at school a few times but never so far as to have the principal use the paddle. I did come close once when he found my friend and I using his RV camper (that he parked on school grounds) as a clubhouse. He wasn't happy with that.

 

[maflynn]

I believe in corporal punishment. I'm a big believer in teaching kids that there are consequences to their actions. They need to learn the difference between right and wrong, and when you do wrong you'll get punished.

 

[willmtaylor]

I currently am responsible for and 8-year-old and a 2.5-year-old.

The wife and I both decided on time outs for most things, deprivation of toys, etc., when necessary, and corporal punishment as little as possible.

Corporal punishment is generally only doled out when it’s a much more serious “offense” (e.g. the child’s safety is at risk as a result of his/her actions), if the former punishments were fruitless, or if there is open and willful rebellion during the former punishments.

Honestly, the corporal punishment is more about dread and shock than pain. We never do it when angry. And we always explain it.

With our elder, now that she’s older, “grounding” or taking away certain privileges is far more effective, so I can’t remember the last team she got swatted.

And, as I said, the other is 2.5.

Just our prerogative.

 

[AlliFlowers]

I was swatted exactly once that I recall. My mother would give me "the look" and I would be scared into doing what she wanted. Maybe I could tell even then that even my mother didn't know what she would do if pushed hard enough.

I never touched my own children. I always said that if I started I wouldn't know when to stop. I guess they believed that.

I have students who have never been disciplined in any way at all, and it shows. Some of them need more than a swat. If you don't discipline them at two, it's too late when they're twelve.

 

[willmtaylor]

I was swatted exactly once that I recall. My mother would give me "the look" and I would be scared into doing what she wanted. Maybe I could tell even then that even my mother didn't know what she would do if pushed hard enough.

I never touched my own children. I always said that if I started I wouldn't know when to stop. I guess they believed that.

I have students who have never been disciplined in any way at all, and it shows. Some of them need more than a swat. If you don't discipline them at two, it's too late when they're twelve.

Oz. of prevention vs. lb. of cure or something of the sort.

 

[ucfgrad93]

There was never a belt involved when I was a kid; it was "go and get the wooden spoon". It only happened a few times!

I too saw the wooden spoon on a couple of occasions.

 

[willmtaylor]

I too saw the wooden spoon on a couple of occasions.

Same.

 

[ouimetnick]

I’m 23, and my folks are 65 and 70. My dad would spank me or my brother and my mom would put soap in out mouth when we swore. I still swear so perhaps the soap wasn’t effective, but the spankings or being dragged by my hair into my bedroom for a time-out was pretty effective.

 

[eyoungren]

I have students who have never been disciplined in any way at all, and it shows. Some of them need more than a swat. If you don't discipline them at two, it's too late when they're twelve.

My wife is completing her degree to get her teaching credential for elementary. Student teaching was last year and she had students that sooner or later will be facing the corrective action of law enforcement or punishment by the penal system. At that point it will be out of their parents hands.

 

[Huntn]

I’ll clarify post 1, we have a grandparent relationship with these kids, but are not their biological grandparents.

'Belt' was a euphemism growing up. It was indeed a belt more than once, but there were more than a few times when something else stood in.

Outside of the house, corporal punishment was very much a thing in Christian schools during the 80s. More than once 'belt' was another word for wooden paddle.

My impression is that for most kids a swat is enough to get their attention, but I acknowledge (not my son) that swats don’t faze some children. At that point I imagine the situation gets more complicated. There used to be this show on TV about the miracle nanny or something like that where she did not use corporal punishment, but I never saw it. Swats were working for me.
[doublepost=1561825097][/doublepost]

There was never a belt involved when I was a kid; it was "go and get the wooden spoon". It only happened a few times!

At private school (I only went one year, 4th grade) transgressions including being late was cause for the 3 sided ruler being brought out by the teacher, standing before her and presenting your hand. I was not late often very often.

A side note, when I was attending this school, it was called Woodward Prep or something close to that (I was 10 years old, 1963), I used to walk from our house in SE Washington DC and catch the public bus for downtown, a couple of blocks from the White House. I can’t imagine parents allowing their 10 year olds to do this today.

Then in high school the Principle had a paddle with holes in it, but I never enjoyed that.

 

[Huntn]

I believe in corporal punishment. I'm a big believer in teaching kids that there are consequences to their actions. They need to learn the difference between right and wrong, and when you do wrong you'll get punished.

What should the consequences be? You start with verbal, and then at some point, physicality maybe required, if such things as go to your room, no TV is ignored. The worse case in my mind without corporal punishment, would be to have to sit on them to get them to comply.

With the 3 year old I mentioned, she usually will go to her room, but once she ignored both me and my wife, and I carried her, placed her in her room, and shut the door, where she proceeded to scream for about 10 minutes before wearing herself out.
[doublepost=1561825664][/doublepost]

I was swatted exactly once that I recall. My mother would give me "the look" and I would be scared into doing what she wanted. Maybe I could tell even then that even my mother didn't know what she would do if pushed hard enough.

I never touched my own children. I always said that if I started I wouldn't know when to stop. I guess they believed that.

I have students who have never been disciplined in any way at all, and it shows. Some of them need more than a swat. If you don't discipline them at two, it's too late when they're twelve.

Unfortunately 2 parent working households which seems be be the norm these days (a change from the 60s), some of the parents seem to expect the school to be the functional parents, but have zero disciplinary rights.

 

[Huntn]

I’m 23, and my folks are 65 and 70. My dad would spank me or my brother and my mom would put soap in out mouth when we swore. I still swear so perhaps the soap wasn’t effective, but the spankings or being dragged by my hair into my bedroom for a time-out was pretty effective.

In the realm of child discipline, bring dragged by the hair seems on the edge to me. Not judging you, just an observation.

 

[eyoungren]

At private school (I only went one year, 4th grade) transgressions including being late was cause for the 3 sided ruler being brought out by the teacher, standing before her and presenting your hand. I was not late often very often.

When I was 16 there was a small period of time where I didn't want to do my Spanish homework.

The teacher was a women I had encouraged to stay at the school despite all the students not liking her (because she made them do what they were supposed to). For whatever reason I assumed that would not be directed at me. But I found out that she didn't play favorites.

So on one particular occasion of not doing my Spanish homework she made me stand beside my desk the entire class. The second time she bluntly informed me that together we would go speak to my mother (my mom taught at the same school and was in the next classroom). THAT ended my little transgressions.

I was bored with Ivanhoe at one point in English lit and expecting her to allow me to read a different book I was told "It gets better, keep reading".

She cared enough not to let me get away with things that were detrimental to my success in school. And that's another reason for discipline. We correct our children because we love them enough to correct their behavior.

Allowing bad behavior to continue means they don't learn anything and that is detrimental to their success and character.
[doublepost=1561826876][/doublepost]

Unfortunately 2 parent working households which seems be be the norm these days (a change from the 60s), some of the parents seem to expect the school to be the functional parents, but have zero disciplinary rights.

My wife had to struggle with that this year. As a student teacher she was attempting to treat the kids in her class as she would her own children (in regards to discipline). She was getting pushback from the other teachers at school and the principal.

It was a learning process she eventually got, but it's a messed up situation. Some parents think you are a state-paid babysitter and they expect you to 'fix' their problems, but because they are the actual legal parent refuse to surrender any authority to actually do that.

There were a few exceptions though. My wife had the phone numbers to a few parents and the threat to call them was enough to change behaviors.

 

[JamesMike]

Fortunately, I did not have to use the swat very much with my kids. I used the 'final option'...a week with their grandma, she was old school, once with each child. They came back righteous...lol!

 

[eyeseeyou]

My wife used to weary of always doing the work and a lot of times I ended up being the 'bad cop'.

I mean isn't this one of the reasons a lot of parents should "spank" their kids in certain situations?

As an adult, there are different types of consequences for different types of behavior. Crying and screaming to get what you want doesn't work in adult life and certainly won't work when your manager dings you for acting out of line at work or when a cop pulls you over or aside for whatever reason. Rules and consequences.

 

[maflynn]

What should the consequences be? You start with verbal, and then at some point, physicality maybe required,

It depends on the age and what they did. I certainly went straight to spanking on a number occasions.

Other times I used timeouts and/or groundings