One would hope, but trust me I’ve heard of certain people crying their way out of a ticket.
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A Place for Corporal Punishment in Child Rearing?
- Thread starter Huntn
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Well yes, and that did happen when warranted.
She did the work, same as I did. She just got tired of it sometimes. And using me as a threat ("I'll have to talk to your father, or I will tell your dad") was often enough.
Agreed. No single method is appropriate or will work for all transgressions.
Honestly, I think I've only had to do that once. I find hand spanking to be better. It doesn't hurt, obviously, but it stings a bit more initially. It's more of a firm pat on the hands with a solid NO, don't do that/do that again. That said, I've always preferred children to be well behaved because I've seen some ****** children in my life. The only time our kids have acted out, and which I've been fine with, is when we were playing with water in the yard. Otherwise, we generally get praised for how well behaved our kids are, even by strangers. That latter of which is a bit creepy.
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I thought it was funky tasting dark chocolate.
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I once did 30 over the speed limit. Got pulled over. When asked why, I said I had accidentally consumed a laxative and had to go to a bathroom ASAP. I got a short escort to a nearby store and told not to do it again, to both the speeding and being careful what I ate.
I thought it was funky tasting dark chocolate.
My situation, 2 week into a month with a 3 year old who has learned that screaming is the way to get what she wants is pure misery. It’s not only tantrums, but this child thinks that screaming is a normal method of expressing one’s self when excited and having fun. She is not a bad child per say, but this behavior makes me want to have nothing to do with her, even when she s being adorable. I’m irritated at the adults around her have decided that she is defacto in charge. Sorry for repeating myself, but it’s wearing. 
Did the Sister's paddle have speed holes drilled into it? I didn't get paddled by the Sisters, I got my knuckled rapped with a ruler. Not your average ruler mind you, a custom made aluminum "ruler" (an aluminum bar you can get at the home center nowadays) with a leather grip.'Belt' was a euphemism growing up. It was indeed a belt more than once, but there were more than a few times when something else stood in.
Outside of the house, corporal punishment was very much a thing in Christian schools during the 80s. More than once 'belt' was another word for wooden paddle.
Anyhow, I punish my kids by replacing their smart phone with my old flip phone.
I tell you it works better than grounding. My wife is a hair stylist and threatened to give them the male pattern baldness hair cut.
Continuing down this side...my mother attended Anacostia High School. She took the city bus there every day on her own.
I live in Norway (am American and grew up in the US). Spanking and the like is illegal here, has been since 1972 I believe. Children are generally well behaved here, so there are clearly other (and better, IMO) ways to deal with the completely normal variation in how small children learn to deal with disappointment, exhaustion, and other more serious reasons for tantrums during the early years.
I understand how frustrating it can be - I've dealt with my share of tantrums as a mother, and dealing with them has stretched my patience pretty thin sometimes. And @Huntn I have loads of sympathy for you being in that situation, where speaking with the parents can be difficult or jeopardize the relationship but the behavior is driving you crazy. But there's generally a reason for a tantrum or bad pattern of behavior - anything from an undiagnosed physical problem to a lack of boundaries or consistency at home or even abuse. And in cases of abuse or neglect, the problem can bleed into adulthood if it's not addressed early enough.
This applies to normal toddler behavior, too, but sometimes "bad" behavior is the way a child tries to reach out when things aren't good at home. The child needs to get someone's attention, but if good relational behavior isn't being modeled at home, the child has no point of reference for how to get the attention needed - and the result is acting out.
Regardless of the reason for the acting out/tantrum, I really don't think violence solves anything. And don't fool yourself, it is violence, even if the best intentions are the motivation. You want the child to develop a good set of tools for dealing with the world, not only for navigating childhood, but in order to be good parents when their turn comes. Spanking is the easy way out.
I don't buy the argument that "I was spanked, and I turned out fine" that I occasionally hear. You turned out fine in spite of being spanked. Yes, most people are psychologically robust enough to tolerate spanking, but that doesn't make it right, and it certainly doesn't make it the most sensible or creative option - just the easiest.
I understand how frustrating it can be - I've dealt with my share of tantrums as a mother, and dealing with them has stretched my patience pretty thin sometimes. And @Huntn I have loads of sympathy for you being in that situation, where speaking with the parents can be difficult or jeopardize the relationship but the behavior is driving you crazy. But there's generally a reason for a tantrum or bad pattern of behavior - anything from an undiagnosed physical problem to a lack of boundaries or consistency at home or even abuse. And in cases of abuse or neglect, the problem can bleed into adulthood if it's not addressed early enough.
This applies to normal toddler behavior, too, but sometimes "bad" behavior is the way a child tries to reach out when things aren't good at home. The child needs to get someone's attention, but if good relational behavior isn't being modeled at home, the child has no point of reference for how to get the attention needed - and the result is acting out.
Regardless of the reason for the acting out/tantrum, I really don't think violence solves anything. And don't fool yourself, it is violence, even if the best intentions are the motivation. You want the child to develop a good set of tools for dealing with the world, not only for navigating childhood, but in order to be good parents when their turn comes. Spanking is the easy way out.
I don't buy the argument that "I was spanked, and I turned out fine" that I occasionally hear. You turned out fine in spite of being spanked. Yes, most people are psychologically robust enough to tolerate spanking, but that doesn't make it right, and it certainly doesn't make it the most sensible or creative option - just the easiest.
I walked to Ketchum Elementary School in Anacostia, about a half mile away from our house on T Street SE circa 1960ish.
I think that reason for this bad behavior (screaming) is that children explore their boundaries, and some of them discover that when screaming gets them what they want instead of a negative response, they adopt the behavior as a means to an end. They also can adopt ear drum reverberating screams as a normal response to a variety of normal stimulus. And in child’s case (I’ve been talking about) if you tell her to stop doing whatever it is, she has been known to respond with a loud “NO”. In addition she will physically fight you, trying to scratch you if you pick her up.
I understand corporal punishment is controversial, but based on my experience, if you have a child that does not obey a parent with verbal commands, some degree of physicality is required. Does that allow locking them in their room, if they refuse to stay in their room? Does that require sitting on them, if they refuse to submit to the parents wishes? I think that it is obvious that if your child does not respect what you say verbally, you are now put into a position of having to micromanage them physically, in other words metaphorically sitting on them during a period where they are being punished.
If I look at my own history, I was spanked as a child (not beaten). It is hard for me to judge how harmful it was. I believe the vast majority of people are not scared by this. I look back on it as a fact of my life, but have no negative feelings associated with it, am not haunted by it. Could some children be scarred by a swat? It’s possible.
When I approached child discipline as a parent, I logically thought about my options dealing with a misbehaving child. Personally, I see nothing wrong with swats and view them as more efficient, and I don't see them scaring children, but if presented with documentation that it does scar them, I’m open minded and would consider that, along with suggestions as to the better way to deal with it.
Now are there scared kids who were physically abused? I’m sure there are. And maybe in Norway, to reduce child abuse they decided to draw a line in the sand at any physicality?
The parents in question, just let her scream. My wife who wants her to be happy and does not want to deal with screams has changed many of her personally standards to accommodate her, like wearing a headset and watching videos on a tablet during group meals. But I’ve also noticed my wife has gotten fatigued with some of her things she chooses to have tantrums over, and will sometimes say no at home, and tries to talk to her as the child screams in response to every time she is addressed.
I’ll say again, I don’t view this situation as a bad child, but as bad parenting. It is the parents job to guide their children in the right direction and although the child may eventually grow out of it, giving in to this kind of behavior is doing them no favors IMO.
That's old school thinking that still affects me when I get all riled up. Once my temper cools down a bit, I find unusual punishments are the best. Getting physical has an initial shock value, but loses it's effectiveness over time. Kids start thinking in terms of economics: a broken vase equals 10 paddling, temper tantrum is worth a head bopping and five across the eyes, and so on. Not a good precedence.
Something that they remember, I have found to be the most effective. For younger kids, I find deleting their saved games works wonders. The threat of losing all their effort a second time makes them more willing to compromise. With older kids, it's replacing their new hotness gadget with obsolete devices works. Try playing Mobile Legends on the first gen Nexus 7...muhaahahahahahaaa. I've shown them plans for a pillory
I will build if they really act up.Can I get an Alleluia? ALLELUIA, brotha.
It seems to me that this child could benefit from a visit to a pediatrician or other clinician to make sure that there is nothing physically or neurologically affecting her and subsequently causing this screaming behavior, because that constant screaming and loudness, plus scratching at someone if they try to pick her up certainly does not sound like normal behavior. The parents also most definitely could use some counseling in helping and guiding the child, too, in modifying this behavior if it is in fact actually something within the little girl's control. Either way, this situation should not be allowed to continue.
Don’t misinterpret what I said. What are unusual punishments?That's old school thinking that still affects me when I get all riled up. Once my temper cools down a bit, I find unusual punishments are the best. Getting physical has an initial shock value, but loses it's effectiveness over time. Kids start thinking in terms of economics: a broken vase equals 10 paddling, temper tantrum is worth a head bopping and five across the eyes, and so on. Not a good precedence.
Something that they remember, I have found to be the most effective. For younger kids, I find deleting their saved games works wonders. The threat of losing all their effort a second time makes them more willing to compromise. With older kids, it's replacing their new hotness gadget with obsolete devices works. Try playing Mobile Legends on the first gen Nexus 7...muhaahahahahahaaa. I've shown them plans for a pillory
Can I get an Alleluia? ALLELUIA, brotha.
If verbal does not work, what else is there beside some level of physicality? Physicality does not have to be striking a child, but it can be physically controlling their actions.
Send them to the naughty step or confiscate their phone depending on their age!Don’t misinterpret what I said. What are unusual punishments?
Sending them to the naughty step and them obeying would be a verbal command with obedience. Taking away a phone, I would classify as a physical step versus telling them no phone .
Ah...being of the generation where physical punishment often equals flogging, I misread.Don’t misinterpret what I said. What are unusual punishments?
Unusual punishments are creative punishment that kids WILL remember. Making them hold signs in public stating their crimes or hiring high level PKers in their favorite MMORPG assassinate their character every time the log in. Stuff like that.
Oh yeah. I guess my pillory punishment gets the thumbs up?
It will the punishment of last resort though, because it would take a lot of work to build a pillory.
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Personally I would be a little uncomfortable with belts/ slippers/ other objects being employed, but a cuff with your hand seems fine. This is probably the philosophy I will apply with my kids. Other animals do it when their young ones are out of line, Humans have done it for millennia, I don't see why Humans should be any different now (from someone who grew up alongside the whole 'laying a finger on your child will 100% cause irreversible psychological harm' thing - not that that cotton-wool idiocy was ever humoured in our household )
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Growing up in a religious environment, in my own experience, I think spanking was way too celebrated and encouraged. It can definitely be abused - becomes ineffectual and abuse at that point.
However, I'm a believer in corporal punishment - should just be the last resort and never done in anger/frustration. I see way too many kids today not having enough parenting in their lives.
However, I'm a believer in corporal punishment - should just be the last resort and never done in anger/frustration. I see way too many kids today not having enough parenting in their lives.
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Nothing as elaborate as that. When our child would not stay in his room, we’d put him on the dog chain out back, but properly dressed to handle the elements. He chased the squirrels so I wondered how much punishment was that really?Ah...being of the generation where physical punishment often equals flogging, I misread.
Unusual punishments are creative punishment that kids WILL remember. Making them hold signs in public stating their crimes or hiring high level PKers in their favorite MMORPG assassinate their character every time the log in. Stuff like that.
Oh yeah. I guess my pillory punishment gets the thumbs up?
It will the punishment of last resort though, because it would take a lot of work to build a pillory.
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I’ve suggested to my wife that the child needs a behavior evaluation. I will add, of which I forgot to mention in post one, that the parents are getting a divorce, but that is very recent and this behavior preceeded the divorce.
Ahhhh...... OK, so if the parents are now planning on getting a divorce, chances are that tensions were high in the household long before any decisions were made about separating and divorcing, so the child may well have picked up on things, which would then affect her own ability to cope, especially if the parents were concentrating more on fighting with each other than tending to her needs. She may have heard actual arguments or she may have sensed unspoken disagreement and tension between the parents and being so young, wouldn’t know how to handle that. Children are very sensitive to what’s going on around them and I suspect many adults tend to either be unaware of this or to forget it in their own emotional stress. This suggests even more that an evaluation by someone who is trained in working with children is indeed in order.....
This is my point exactly - they are exploring their boundaries. How we set and enforce those boundaries is key. If for some reason the boundaries and how they are enforced isn't consistent and appropriate, the behavior will show it. That's not the fault of the children, so corporal punishment isn't appropriate, and can in fact make the situation worse (and it's illegal in some countries for that very reason).
My parents never used corporal punishment with me. It isn't the right form of discipline for every parent or every child. I do think that for some children, corporal punishment may be the only form of discipline they respond to. But I would only use it as a last resort if other non-physical methods were not working.
I accept this as your opinion and acknowledge it is illegal in some places. But exploring boundaries, and continuing to violated acceptable boundaries, and being willful about it and not responsive to verbal admonition, puts the adult in a spot especially if you are late to the game.
This is not making excuses for bad parenting though and as I said before, swats seemed to be effective in my case (when our child was little) but I also recognize that some children are not all that bothered by swats. At that point I assume the situation becomes more difficult.
a 3year old child will have zero critical thinking ability and limited language skills. They functionally can not remember the previous day.
Use the ear plugs and be happy.
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Yes, ignoring the issue is one way to handle it and I am not in a position to insert myself, but it’s an error to assert that 3 year olds are incapable of learning.