I shared your sentiments but I think we best have our emotions in check here or else this thread would be wastelanded too.neildmitchell said:
Anyway, has Grey beard made any appearances yet? kinda of worried about him.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
A Respectful Goodbye
- Thread starter scem0
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
Anyway, has Grey beard made any appearances yet? kinda of worried about him.
solvs
macrumors 603
I'm re-thinking my position on a gay thread. Seems it would be quite popular. As long as it doesn't become dirty or just a place for online dating. Which I guess it would be. Which is probably why the gay thread was closed. Which is kinda sad.
Sorry to see you go. Hope you come back to visit.
Sorry to see you go. Hope you come back to visit.
neildmitchell
macrumors 6502a
jsw
Moderator emeritus
I understand that these forums were originally founded to discuss Mac-related topics, but my excavations into the earliest accessible threads show a great deal of non-Mac discussions, as well as huge amounts of what would now be considered spam... done by some now-respected members in high positions.
I understand the need to remove posts and threads which would likely be considered offensive by an average reader (I don't consider the GayWay thread to be an example of such a thread, although there have been some posts I think were justifiably removed, as is the case in many other threads). I understand the desire to eliminate spam and to pressure people to not post purely in order to have an avatar.
What I fail to understand is what seems, to me, to be a relatively recent push to consolidate posts, to lock or wasteland long-standing threads, to pick apart the need for a given post to have been written, etc.
To me, these forums serve a few distinct purposes (and "Mac" is used by me for anything Apple-related):
(1) Mac rumors. Obviously. However, this is of the least concern to me, as it's like trying to predict the weather next month. It's hard to do accurately, and it doesn't much matter until next month arrives.
(2) Mac-related discussion/opinions. Although somewhat noob and waste-post ridden, this is enjoyable for me to read and helpful at times. What products are good, what problems have been seen, comparisons, etc. This part is what originally drew me in.
(3) Mac-related help. I feel most useful when I post correct solutions to someone's cry for help, and I am very glad we can help others in this way.
(4) Marketplace. To me, inconsequential. Maybe I'll sell something there someday, probably not.
(5) The community forums - i.e., everything else. To me, this is the soul of MR and why we have people who keep coming back. There are many places to find rumors, discussions, and help, and there's always eBay for sales. But the community forums (and private ones as well) are why I visit day after day after day. GayWay was one such thread that kept a lot of people on the forums, and, to me, someone on the forums is someone who might, between posts, help someone else out. They're also friends of a sort, even though most of us never meet any of the others. I've only ever seen two other MR people and spoken with an additional two, but there are many more people than that with whom I feel a bond.
Is the death of the GayWay thread going to affect me? Not directly. I had, I think, 3 posts there (although I read it frequently). However, I feel like a number of very interesting MR members post there, and I will feel a loss if more of those members leave due to the lack of a thread in which they can congregate.
MR, to me, is nothing without its members and is weakened by the loss of any member who contributes positively to the forums.
I understand the need to keep order, and I'm not familiar enough with the reasons the GayWay thread was locked to form a real opinion as to whether that action was justified (not that it matters, I can't alter anything).
However, I would certainly hope that efforts are made to keep and promote the sense of community as an overall goal which is more important than the desire to limit post counts or keep threads "on target" or decide which threads are "appropriate" (with the obvious exception of offending posts and threads).
To me, way too many interesting threads get Wastelanded or locked when the more appropriate response would be to eliminate certain posts within those threads.
But hey, I pay less than 7 cents a day to "belong" here. I have no authority.
Just MHO. I just hope we don't lose too many more good members, and I hope scem0 comes back.
I understand the need to remove posts and threads which would likely be considered offensive by an average reader (I don't consider the GayWay thread to be an example of such a thread, although there have been some posts I think were justifiably removed, as is the case in many other threads). I understand the desire to eliminate spam and to pressure people to not post purely in order to have an avatar.
What I fail to understand is what seems, to me, to be a relatively recent push to consolidate posts, to lock or wasteland long-standing threads, to pick apart the need for a given post to have been written, etc.
To me, these forums serve a few distinct purposes (and "Mac" is used by me for anything Apple-related):
(1) Mac rumors. Obviously. However, this is of the least concern to me, as it's like trying to predict the weather next month. It's hard to do accurately, and it doesn't much matter until next month arrives.
(2) Mac-related discussion/opinions. Although somewhat noob and waste-post ridden, this is enjoyable for me to read and helpful at times. What products are good, what problems have been seen, comparisons, etc. This part is what originally drew me in.
(3) Mac-related help. I feel most useful when I post correct solutions to someone's cry for help, and I am very glad we can help others in this way.
(4) Marketplace. To me, inconsequential. Maybe I'll sell something there someday, probably not.
(5) The community forums - i.e., everything else. To me, this is the soul of MR and why we have people who keep coming back. There are many places to find rumors, discussions, and help, and there's always eBay for sales. But the community forums (and private ones as well) are why I visit day after day after day. GayWay was one such thread that kept a lot of people on the forums, and, to me, someone on the forums is someone who might, between posts, help someone else out. They're also friends of a sort, even though most of us never meet any of the others. I've only ever seen two other MR people and spoken with an additional two, but there are many more people than that with whom I feel a bond.
Is the death of the GayWay thread going to affect me? Not directly. I had, I think, 3 posts there (although I read it frequently). However, I feel like a number of very interesting MR members post there, and I will feel a loss if more of those members leave due to the lack of a thread in which they can congregate.
MR, to me, is nothing without its members and is weakened by the loss of any member who contributes positively to the forums.
I understand the need to keep order, and I'm not familiar enough with the reasons the GayWay thread was locked to form a real opinion as to whether that action was justified (not that it matters, I can't alter anything).
However, I would certainly hope that efforts are made to keep and promote the sense of community as an overall goal which is more important than the desire to limit post counts or keep threads "on target" or decide which threads are "appropriate" (with the obvious exception of offending posts and threads).
To me, way too many interesting threads get Wastelanded or locked when the more appropriate response would be to eliminate certain posts within those threads.
But hey, I pay less than 7 cents a day to "belong" here. I have no authority.
Just MHO. I just hope we don't lose too many more good members, and I hope scem0 comes back.
I really have little sympathy, and I will say what I think.
Sure, this site has some "off-topic" community posts. Heck, the most publicity the site has ever had in the national media came from a thread about two cheerleaders having sex in a bathroom.
But, if your only reason for coming to a Mac site is to post in a gay thread, and then you get mad and leave when a way off-topic thread is closed, I say good riddance.
That is like the 5 year old on the playground who runs home with his ball when he doesn't get his way.
I hope Emerson will stay and continue posting, but don't run off when you don't get your way.
Sure, this site has some "off-topic" community posts. Heck, the most publicity the site has ever had in the national media came from a thread about two cheerleaders having sex in a bathroom.
But, if your only reason for coming to a Mac site is to post in a gay thread, and then you get mad and leave when a way off-topic thread is closed, I say good riddance.
That is like the 5 year old on the playground who runs home with his ball when he doesn't get his way.
I hope Emerson will stay and continue posting, but don't run off when you don't get your way.
Capt Underpants said:
Well said!
Scem0
I have enjoyed our little online interactions in threads, and enjoyed reading about your life, and some of the issues you were going through. The "Any Gay's Here" thread was one I enjoyed reading, and even posting in (at first accidentally and caught by iGary).
I also hope that leekoler decides to stick around Macrumors, as both his and your contributions to the mood and feelings in this forum have been a part of what keeps me coming back to Macrumors.
Take care, and I hope we do see you bop back in from time to time 🙂
MarkCollette
macrumors 68000
To whoever may feel that community discussions are less important than Mac rumor discussions, I'd like to remind you that there are sometimes long stretches of time between new Mac rumors or announcements, where the only thing this site has to offer are the community discussions.
I don't care if some people have many posts and some have a few. That doesn't affect me at all. Hell, I don't even know how many posts I've made. So why would anyone remove/censor posts just to lower someone's count?
I don't care if some people have many posts and some have a few. That doesn't affect me at all. Hell, I don't even know how many posts I've made. So why would anyone remove/censor posts just to lower someone's count?
thedude110
macrumors 68020
mac-er said:
Wow. The reason I went from lurker to poster on these forums was because of the sense of community that's so apparent.
I dunno. For me this is more than just a Mac site, and while you might say "If your only reason for coming to MacRumors is to post in a gay thread," I might say "Why would you only come to MacRumors to post in Apple related threads?" These forums, to me, are much more.
thedude110 said:
MarkCollette said:
I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with community posts. They are the posts that make the site fun.
My problem is with someone getting mad and running off when they don't get their way. And, with no one calling him on it (until now).
Chip NoVaMac
macrumors G3
mac-er said:
You may not have seen the contributing posts by those like scem0 and others that are "ticked-off" right now. They did not solely post in the GayWay.
As to "That is like the 5 year old on the playground who runs home with his ball when he doesn't get his way.". The first post to current problems was made at 11/7 Monday at 10:41AM. Less than 24 hours the thread was closed. All I will say is that we as MR members will never be told the real reasons behind the closing. Too many mixed messages being told between too many members.
I and others did not come to MR to post in the GayWay. It was a reason to sit and stay awhile. Just how many scratched nano threads can one answer? Same way for PPC vs. MacIntel threads can one answer before your head explodes? Berating someone for speeding (or telling them to fight the ticket) provides some diversion.
Some may have in the GayWay resorted to posting as if it were PM's, but it provided some content for some of us to comment on. I was shot down by both sides for a Gay/Lesbian Forum here on MR. And IIRC as long as we kept it clean, the GayWay could find a life here.
Sure it was a "social club" at times. And maybe in hindsight benefited from being its own forum, like the Political Forum. But we as both post contributing and financial contributing members were happy with the rambling thread that all parties seemed to be happy with at the time. Even with restrictions.
In some ways your comments sound like the 7 yo who feels that they are older and wiser than the 5 yo's.
leekohler
macrumors G5
Chip NoVaMac said:
I agree with you Chip. My biggest problem was the manner in which the closing was handled. I have to tell you that I will definitely be wary of posting anything related to the "G" word from now on for fear of being banned. Like I've said before, this is a private website and people can close threads as they see fit and I'm not arguing it should be reopened. But I also thought that this was a place where people, brought together by a common interest (Macs), could discuss anything they pleased within reason. I don't feel that way anymore. Had I a crystal ball back when you asked for a separate forum, I would have supported you. I did not foresee such an abrupt end to the thread as there didn't seem to be cause for it. I'm sorry I didn't see it sooner. But hey- we're all here now and I for one, promise not to inconvenience anyone with any details they may find objectionable. I apologize to all those offended by our honesty.
The only person who has run off is scem0, and looking at his post contributions, 8/10 of them have been in GayWay.Chip NoVaMac said:
It doesn't matter why the post was closed. They are the mods and we aren't. And, if you are leaving the site simply because a particular thread was closed...that is being a bit immature.
See my first comment in this response. Chip, you and most others do post a lot in other threads. Scem0 really didn't. And, you haven't run off.
If that is your opinion, but I certainly don't act immature and leave when I don't get my way.
*snappy mode off*
I think most of the other posters have touched on this but I'll expand and add another voice since this sems to be of a concern as of late.
This is the Community section. Its called that for a reason. If you take the community out of the Community section then it becomes a barren soulless forum. And that is exactly why the GayWay thread stuck around so long and why some are making a big deal about the fact that its no longer around and any attempt to make a similar thread will almost be shot down before its posted make some of us question the way future community building threads like that will be handled in the future. Regardless about anyone's personal feelings about the thread (which as far as I'm concerned, if it botthers you that much don't click on the bloody thing, then its your own damn fault and we shouldn't have to clean up your mess) it built up a community of members who had something in common. Most of those members came to the site for the Macs and stuck around for the community. Its what makes this board different than the comments section on a news site for example. People build relationships here and obviously they're meaningful on some level because this thread has been created. I mean, several regular posters have left and one has requested his money back from contributing to the site.
That tells you something right there, if someone is so dissatisfied and/or pissed off at the way things were handles that he wants a measly $25 refund from an online forums site then something's wrong.
Where will the line be drawn next time? 1000 posts? 2000 posts? 3000 posts? How many members will have to stick around by the time it reaches X number of posts in orser for it to be considered just a big chat thread and be shut down?
This site has grown a lot in the 3 years I've been here. I think its about time for the community to be allowed to grow as well. After all, even though I've been in and out of Mac ownership, the community has been what keeps me around as I spend most of my time in this forum, you take the community away, you kill the site.
I think most of the other posters have touched on this but I'll expand and add another voice since this sems to be of a concern as of late.
This is the Community section. Its called that for a reason. If you take the community out of the Community section then it becomes a barren soulless forum. And that is exactly why the GayWay thread stuck around so long and why some are making a big deal about the fact that its no longer around and any attempt to make a similar thread will almost be shot down before its posted make some of us question the way future community building threads like that will be handled in the future. Regardless about anyone's personal feelings about the thread (which as far as I'm concerned, if it botthers you that much don't click on the bloody thing, then its your own damn fault and we shouldn't have to clean up your mess) it built up a community of members who had something in common. Most of those members came to the site for the Macs and stuck around for the community. Its what makes this board different than the comments section on a news site for example. People build relationships here and obviously they're meaningful on some level because this thread has been created. I mean, several regular posters have left and one has requested his money back from contributing to the site.
That tells you something right there, if someone is so dissatisfied and/or pissed off at the way things were handles that he wants a measly $25 refund from an online forums site then something's wrong.
Where will the line be drawn next time? 1000 posts? 2000 posts? 3000 posts? How many members will have to stick around by the time it reaches X number of posts in orser for it to be considered just a big chat thread and be shut down?
This site has grown a lot in the 3 years I've been here. I think its about time for the community to be allowed to grow as well. After all, even though I've been in and out of Mac ownership, the community has been what keeps me around as I spend most of my time in this forum, you take the community away, you kill the site.
Chip NoVaMac
macrumors G3
mac-er said:
You are wrong that only scem0 "has run off". iGary gave up his Demi-God status, and many others are relooking at their participation on MR at this point.
I trust that you had the time to count each post in the Gay Way. With over 3700 post before the closing, the thread has been alive for over 6 months. That is about 20 posts a day. At a 8/10 split that means that scem0 was doing 16 post a day in that thread. That means prior to the GayWay his posts were under 3700 since 2002.
As witnessed by the heartfelt goodbyes by others, he has not just had an impact on the GayWay as you seem to indicate. If the Mods provide stats to back up your claims, since I will not waste time counting each post, as you seem to indicate that you have.
the issue is the what is looked upon as uneven applying of rules on MR when it came to the GayWay. They may be Mods, but we are the members. Some of us contributed not just words but real money. In either case as members we should be able to talk honestly about the direction and moderation here.
A simple member search indicates that scem0 started at least 125 individual threads. I haven't gone yet because I understood the first post by a Mod requesting a change in how we posted in the GayWay. But in less than 24 hours the thread was closed.
With out seeing all emails and PM's you and I can only guess as to what really happened. I do know first hand that the GayWay had caused concern by some members to the Mods over content. Some was the graphic nature that was there, and some was due to allowing a platform for Gays to even converse "cleanly". Yet a father taking his son to Hooters was still allowed to stand. Among other threads....
If you were to look at when the Mods did go in with comments on the GayWay, the members there did ask questions; but did calm down and tried to live within the rules. The issue is that the Mods seem to have waited till things got out of hand, then only then tried to reel in the chaos.
If anything scem0 and others are now acting out of principles. I have left other forums for similar reasons in the past. I speak out both in defense and criticism of what has gone on because I found a family here. And because of that I put my money where my words are/were.
MacNut
macrumors Core
Ok not to add lighter fluid to the fire but if a thread goes off topic it gets closed, what's to say a thread is kept opened just because its been around for a long time if it gets off topic it gets closed. Rules are in place for a reason and why should one thread be above the rules from any others. Now I don't know what was said in the thread to get it closed because I never read any posts but looking at it from the outside why should one thread be exempt from the rules.
janey
macrumors 603
exactly what _is_ "on topic" in community dicussion?
Edit: lemme make it more clear. Three points from the rules.
from https://forums.macrumors.com/announcement.php?f=20
1) Off-topic posts in the non-Community discussion areas. Keep it free of off topic posts. Off-topic posts will be deleted/edited.
2) Spam. The real thing... not just being a prolific poster. ie. Someone posting the same exact post in 10 different threads. Someone posting multiple pointless posts in the same thread....
3) Keep posts ontopic - Especially in the News/Rumors discussion. Off-topic posts in that area will likely get deleted without warning. Other forums are usually less strict, though a completely off-topic thread will likely get closed. Community discussion is pretty unregulated in this respect. Please direct idle chit-chat to that forum.
Edit: lemme make it more clear. Three points from the rules.
from https://forums.macrumors.com/announcement.php?f=20
1) Off-topic posts in the non-Community discussion areas. Keep it free of off topic posts. Off-topic posts will be deleted/edited.
2) Spam. The real thing... not just being a prolific poster. ie. Someone posting the same exact post in 10 different threads. Someone posting multiple pointless posts in the same thread....
3) Keep posts ontopic - Especially in the News/Rumors discussion. Off-topic posts in that area will likely get deleted without warning. Other forums are usually less strict, though a completely off-topic thread will likely get closed. Community discussion is pretty unregulated in this respect. Please direct idle chit-chat to that forum.
- Status