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A Respectful Goodbye
- Thread starter scem0
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But alas, a single thread doesn't make for a community either.vniow said:
This has happened time and again with some of these threads -- at some point they will get closed. And it's time to move on.
If you have too much of yourself invested in a single thread, you aren't enjoying the community and seeing what other people have to say.
Maybe it is time to move on.
---
Plus, we all know how problematic threads like these goodbye threads can be ...
Sun Baked said:But alas, a single thread doesn't make for a community either.
This has happened time and again with some of these threads -- at some point they will get closed. And it's time to move on.
If you have too much of yourself invested in a single thread, you aren't enjoying the community and seeing what other people have to say.
Maybe it is time to move on.
---
Plus, we all know how problematic threads like these goodbye threads can be ...
If you looked at the posts and who did them in that thread, you will see that many of us did make posts otherwise in the general community of MR.
I'm pretty sure I posted once or twice in the GayWay thread early on but lost interest when it became clicky and random. It didn't bother me though. I still followed the thread a little bit now and again to see where it was meandering. It seemed to get inappropriate at times (and no, that comment has nothing to do with the topic of the thread).
The mods seemed to have to do extra work to keep that thread in check. It wasn't all the time, but several times. I wouldn't blame the mods for closing it just so they didn't have the additional policing work. The thread ran a long time and I can understand why those who posted in it often became attached but there are many other threads in the community forum and much more content in the forums as a whole. I think it is perfectly understandable why the thread was closed. I have to agree with some posters in this thread that if the only thing keeping you coming back to a Mac forum is a thread based on one's sexual preference and what was mostly a conversation between a small number of people it is probably time to move on. I understand the point that the community aspect of MR is important but staying on the site for one thread seems a bit extreme, IMO... then again opinions are like a$sholes... ... everyone has one. It is just too bad we're losing some long-time MR members over it, many of whom posted in a lot of other threads with some useful/insightful posts. It's a shame, but these things happen.
Good luck with whatever you do Scem0. Perhaps we'll see you around here again sometime.
The mods seemed to have to do extra work to keep that thread in check. It wasn't all the time, but several times. I wouldn't blame the mods for closing it just so they didn't have the additional policing work. The thread ran a long time and I can understand why those who posted in it often became attached but there are many other threads in the community forum and much more content in the forums as a whole. I think it is perfectly understandable why the thread was closed. I have to agree with some posters in this thread that if the only thing keeping you coming back to a Mac forum is a thread based on one's sexual preference and what was mostly a conversation between a small number of people it is probably time to move on. I understand the point that the community aspect of MR is important but staying on the site for one thread seems a bit extreme, IMO... then again opinions are like a$sholes... ... everyone has one. It is just too bad we're losing some long-time MR members over it, many of whom posted in a lot of other threads with some useful/insightful posts. It's a shame, but these things happen.
Good luck with whatever you do Scem0. Perhaps we'll see you around here again sometime.
Suggestion:
Part of the problem, methinks, is that when a thread goes unstable, if it gets killed the EVERYthing gets tossed out with the bathwater. So in losing the last bits of GayWay, we also lost Chip's Ex saga, Greybeard's introduction, and numerous other posts I really liked.
Would it not make sense to periodically split long-running threads and lock last month's version, for example? So instead of a single 3700 post "Whatever" thread, we have
Whatever (1) locked at 700 posts followed by Whatever (2) which grows to a reasonable size and then is locked, followed by...
The first and last posts in the closed threads can link to the previous/new installments. Locking and opening of a new thread can be based on # of posts, or on a shift in topic, perhaps.
generik: if I can paraphrase, GayWay was a long-standing thread started to allow gay and lesbian members to introduce themselves to the MR Membership. It grew to gargantuan proportions, had avid participation by a core group of MR members and high readership in general, attacted a bit of disciplinary action for occasionally getting too 'detailed', and was recently closed for good - which occasioned this discussion, as follow-on to one member leaving the forum (see post 1 of 124). Whew.
Part of the problem, methinks, is that when a thread goes unstable, if it gets killed the EVERYthing gets tossed out with the bathwater. So in losing the last bits of GayWay, we also lost Chip's Ex saga, Greybeard's introduction, and numerous other posts I really liked.
Would it not make sense to periodically split long-running threads and lock last month's version, for example? So instead of a single 3700 post "Whatever" thread, we have
Whatever (1) locked at 700 posts followed by Whatever (2) which grows to a reasonable size and then is locked, followed by...
The first and last posts in the closed threads can link to the previous/new installments. Locking and opening of a new thread can be based on # of posts, or on a shift in topic, perhaps.
generik: if I can paraphrase, GayWay was a long-standing thread started to allow gay and lesbian members to introduce themselves to the MR Membership. It grew to gargantuan proportions, had avid participation by a core group of MR members and high readership in general, attacted a bit of disciplinary action for occasionally getting too 'detailed', and was recently closed for good - which occasioned this discussion, as follow-on to one member leaving the forum (see post 1 of 124). Whew.
I've just woken up to catch up on what's been going on over the past few hours before I head off to work... demis taking refunds, more people saying they're pissed off, others snitching on others.
Now I'm depressed.
Given the amount of emotional investment that people had in the existence of that thread, I feel its closure could have been handled a little more diplomatically.
I'm not going to enter the debate about whether it should have been closed because many people have already posted eloquent and heartfelt comments about this I have nothing further to add.
Still, it's been done. It's not coming back and I would ask anyone here who may be considering leaving because of these events not to, because you'll leave this place much the poorer.
And for those of you who don't 'get' it or understand what all the fuss is about, couldn't you just have the courtesy to keep your unwelcome opinions to yourself? A lot of regulars are really upset about this and making inflammatory or deliberately obtuse comments is just so crass and ill-mannered, it makes my skin crawl.
Now I'm depressed.
Given the amount of emotional investment that people had in the existence of that thread, I feel its closure could have been handled a little more diplomatically.
I'm not going to enter the debate about whether it should have been closed because many people have already posted eloquent and heartfelt comments about this I have nothing further to add.
Still, it's been done. It's not coming back and I would ask anyone here who may be considering leaving because of these events not to, because you'll leave this place much the poorer.
And for those of you who don't 'get' it or understand what all the fuss is about, couldn't you just have the courtesy to keep your unwelcome opinions to yourself? A lot of regulars are really upset about this and making inflammatory or deliberately obtuse comments is just so crass and ill-mannered, it makes my skin crawl.
Bingo. Remember, for better or worse, the mods are only human. It is a private forum, so we do have to abide by their rules for the sake of keeping the forums as good as they are. But I have to respectfully disagree with how this was handled. I'm not going to cry homophobia, or worry that I'm going to be banned, but I'm hoping we can all just kiss and make up over this one.vniow said:
Man, it looks like you have to keep in touch with this forum every day or you miss something, and fast. I have a couple of questions to clear up some confusion:
1) Is a closed thread the same as a wastelanded thread?
2) If not, what's the difference?
3) And also if not, what happens to your post count if a thread you have participated in gets closed? I understand you lose posts in a wastelanded thread.
I don't think Emerson was getting upset because he lost posts, was he? More about the prinicple, surely? Personally, I've not been here long enough to make friends here, and I don't really spend enough time here either - but the atmosphere at MR is generally wam and welcoming, and the discussion interesting. However, I respect the mods' decision on this - some things come to their natural end.
1) Is a closed thread the same as a wastelanded thread?
2) If not, what's the difference?
3) And also if not, what happens to your post count if a thread you have participated in gets closed? I understand you lose posts in a wastelanded thread.
I don't think Emerson was getting upset because he lost posts, was he? More about the prinicple, surely? Personally, I've not been here long enough to make friends here, and I don't really spend enough time here either - but the atmosphere at MR is generally wam and welcoming, and the discussion interesting. However, I respect the mods' decision on this - some things come to their natural end.
You are right that it was not about lost post or post counts. It was how the whole situation was handled and how certain attitudes were bestowed. Personally, I would have closed that thread and asked the participants to start a new one since it has gotten too big but it's not my forum. Anyway, I do like the idea that posting in community section would not contribute to the post count. I figure most of the members chatting there couldn't care about that anyway.dops7107 said:
EDIT: Would it be wise to start a new thread discussing this instead of hijacking Emerson thread as njmac said. I wouldn't dare to start one for fear of being banned.
leekohler said:
I am only going to say this once, mudbug has stated this too.
Gayway was emphatically not closed because it was a gay thread, it was closed because it became too time intensive to police correctly and had been moderated on more than one occasion.
No-one on this forum should have any fear of posting about their sexual, political or social orientation, I think our actions in the past to defend gay members (female members, or any other group that is being unfairly treated) speak for themselves, and I, for one, find the intimation of homophobia in your post both offensive and upsetting.
leekohler said:
Honesty is not offensive unless it's being used as a cover for offensiveness, your comments about "fear of being banned" simply for posting on gay issues are unwelcome and unhelpful. The majority of posts to gay related threads are fine and the general populace of MR treats them with the respect they deserve. All I ask is for that respect to be reciprocated.
angelneo said:
No, he said that any thread asking for the re-instatment of the Gayway thread or posting inflammatory PM's will be suspended.
Incidentally, no-one has lost any post count, the thread is still in Community, it hasn't been wastelanded. Closed threads still count.
I think we should start b****in' about the Drunk and Official Poop threads being closed.
^^^sarcasm
I wasn't involved in the GayWay thread, nor have I looked into the way it was closed. From what I understand and the few last posts I read in it, it seems to me it was heading the same way as the aforementioned drunk and poop threads (both started by eye ): spam heaven (or at least idle discussion that doesn't serve the community). Both aforementioned threads were well under 3,000 posts, so I don't think the mods are being unreasonable here (at least in the closing of the thread).
I suggest that those interested start new threads to discuss some of the topics from the thread or use IRC. I believe MR as an IRC channel?
I also believe that leaving MR because of this is a bit of an over-reaction. I don't personnaly believe that anything as changed; on the whole it seems like a much more liberal place than it was when I joined. I'd suggest sticking around for a few weeks/months and if it still seems to you then that it's a less liberal, leave.
my 2¢
^^^sarcasm
I wasn't involved in the GayWay thread, nor have I looked into the way it was closed. From what I understand and the few last posts I read in it, it seems to me it was heading the same way as the aforementioned drunk and poop threads (both started by eye
): spam heaven (or at least idle discussion that doesn't serve the community). Both aforementioned threads were well under 3,000 posts, so I don't think the mods are being unreasonable here (at least in the closing of the thread).I suggest that those interested start new threads to discuss some of the topics from the thread or use IRC. I believe MR as an IRC channel?
I also believe that leaving MR because of this is a bit of an over-reaction. I don't personnaly believe that anything as changed; on the whole it seems like a much more liberal place than it was when I joined. I'd suggest sticking around for a few weeks/months and if it still seems to you then that it's a less liberal, leave.
my 2¢
i just do not understand why people are getting so uptight about this Gayway thread ?BakedBeans said:
i never posted in it but i did have a read of it and felt it was abit full on for my taste - but each to there own .
can we not just let it be ... and get on with what matters around here.
all this negativity might put new members and existing members off from posting on these boards.
In light of everything else I've observed on the MR board, I really can't believe that the thread was closed just because it was a Gay thread. There were undoubtedly a number of other issues involved, some of which have been explored in this thread. Not having been privy to the Mod's discussions on the matter, I don't have enough info to have an opinion one way or another about the closing. Threads come and they go. Other threads about gayness will emerge in time, and will be treated with respect by some, disdain by others. As someone once told me, 'life's tough, get a helmet'. We all deal with discrimination, disappointment, challenges, struggles, regardless of sexual orientation or other factors. Its part of being human.
I do think that MR is much bigger than one thread, or even some members. I value all of you, from all backgrounds, gay/straight, black/white, American/European, et.al, liberal/conservative and so on and so forth. Yet one issue does not make or break the community.
I valued scem0, heck, I even used the gradient creator for my signature! I also value a number of others here like iGary, Chip, Lee and so forth. I think the real challenge is not to take your toys and go home when disappointed, but to learn to play well with others in the midst of your disappointment. Those lessons will serve you well in your future relationships, your career, and achieving your goals and dreams.
I would encourage all of you who are disappointed, hurt, or even angry, to step back, take a deep breath and reflect on the value of this community. If you have found value here, then stay. If there is no value to you any more, then maybe it is time to leave. But we will be diminished as you leave, because we lose your perspective. I would encourage you to stay, and let your perspective and voice be a part of the community in other ways. None of you were confined to the GW thread, you all post outside of it, and contribute with great value. I don't want to lose that.
I don't have any gay friends (except here). I don't ever hear a gay perspective, except here. Leave, and I will lose that.
I don't believe this has been about gay bashing or homophobia. I choose to believe it was about managment and administration of the board. I don't agree with all of the decisions my boss makes or my wife makes. Heck, I don't even agree with my own some of the time. But we all have to move on in our lives over the bumps and bruises.
I choose to heal and move on. I hope all of you will too. Regardless, best wishes to all of you.
Woof, Woof – Dawg
I do think that MR is much bigger than one thread, or even some members. I value all of you, from all backgrounds, gay/straight, black/white, American/European, et.al, liberal/conservative and so on and so forth. Yet one issue does not make or break the community.
I valued scem0, heck, I even used the gradient creator for my signature! I also value a number of others here like iGary, Chip, Lee and so forth. I think the real challenge is not to take your toys and go home when disappointed, but to learn to play well with others in the midst of your disappointment. Those lessons will serve you well in your future relationships, your career, and achieving your goals and dreams.
I would encourage all of you who are disappointed, hurt, or even angry, to step back, take a deep breath and reflect on the value of this community. If you have found value here, then stay. If there is no value to you any more, then maybe it is time to leave. But we will be diminished as you leave, because we lose your perspective. I would encourage you to stay, and let your perspective and voice be a part of the community in other ways. None of you were confined to the GW thread, you all post outside of it, and contribute with great value. I don't want to lose that.
I don't have any gay friends (except here). I don't ever hear a gay perspective, except here. Leave, and I will lose that.
I don't believe this has been about gay bashing or homophobia. I choose to believe it was about managment and administration of the board. I don't agree with all of the decisions my boss makes or my wife makes. Heck, I don't even agree with my own some of the time. But we all have to move on in our lives over the bumps and bruises.
I choose to heal and move on. I hope all of you will too. Regardless, best wishes to all of you.
Woof, Woof – Dawg
You know guys, I'd just encourage this to end.
It is what it is, the moderators did what they thought was best at the time.
Cheers.
It is what it is, the moderators did what they thought was best at the time.
Cheers.
That's just wrong
You know, there just might be something about the Gay Way.
No wife to say "no" (on so many levels)
Woof, Woof – Dawg
You know, there just might be something about the Gay Way.
No wife to say "no" (on so many levels)
Woof, Woof – Dawg
WinterMute said:
I think you're absolutely justified in saying this -- MR, as a whole, generally does not seem homophobic (and that's a credit to its members and its mods).
But it's also important to keep in mind the impact of closing this thread on those who enjoyed it. Homosexuals are socially disempowered, and this sort of action creates difficult resonances with that disempowerment. Severe emotional reactions are to be expected.
This is not to say the thread should or should not have been closed. But I'm worried that many seem to have absolutlist positions (I'm not regarding you, here, WinterMute) without seeing the psychology and reality of the other side of the argument.
Were the Mods justiified in closing this thread? Probably. Is the degree to which people are upset over its closure justified? Absolutely.
Nice one iGary.
What were we talking about again?
Is a community thread off-topic if it relates to Mac pr0n?
What were we talking about again?
Is a community thread off-topic if it relates to Mac pr0n?
mad jew said:Nice one iGary.
What were we talking about again?
Is a community thread off-topic if it relates to Mac pr0n?
A guy I just got to switch IM'd me yesterday and asked me how my $3,000 2.7 GHz paperweight was yesterday.
Smart ass.
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