milozauckerman said:
See, the bling argument kinda works if all Apple's ran was XP. They run OSX though, my productivity is a lot higher in OSX. Some might agree with me here.
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A switchers opinion on the whole C2D Macbook thing...
- Thread starter wallock
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See, the bling argument kinda works if all Apple's ran was XP. They run OSX though, my productivity is a lot higher in OSX. Some might agree with me here.
wallock said:
Now let me try this. I'll type www.dell.com, then I click on "Notebooks" and "large business". Dell Precision M90 for £1,567. So I click on "Customize and buy". Wait a second! The price just changed to £1,991! Now this is with 1.83 GHz Core Duo. Strange enough, Core2 Duo has exactly the same price. So 2.00 GHz Core 2 Duo adds £100; that is about the same speed as 2.16 GHz Core Duo.
No 120 GB harddisk available, so I add $80 to get the 100 Gig. No DVD writer - add another £70. Screen size - either smaller than the MacBook, or larger at £80 more. Lets add £40 to the price to make them comparable. Then we subtract £120 because the Dell price includes a better graphics card.
I will insist on anti virus software for the Dell - £61 for 36 month MacAfee subscription. Bluetooth is £12. Can't find Firewire, so I'll leave it out. Total price £2319, with corrections for screen and monitor £2239. This is without shipping and VAT. VAT is 17.5%, that brings it up to £2630 without shipping. The 17 inch MacBook Pro with shipping and tax included is £1899.
Dell really charges a premium. I just don't know what they charge it for. For quality? I doubt it.
Right, but that's not the excuse people make (or when they do, it's iLife) - the responses here
I pay the Apple tax (if you want to argue that none exists because Apple meets price-points in comparison to similar products, the tax still exists because Apple doesn't have a varied product line - A Mac Pro that hits $3000 with 3GB of RAM vs. a C2D box with 4GB of RAM for $2000) because of OS X. It's imperfect but the best option out there and worth doing what it takes to have access. But that doesn't mean one can easily explain away Apple's hardware and consumer-electronics strategy because 'their engineering is neat-o.'
milozauckerman said:
Seriously, it is in most cases. Maybe you just know the shallow people but most of the people I know who've switched have done it because OSX (and the whole package, really), just works.
The bling is a bonus when you consider how some like OSX and on a laptop I can flip the lid open and work straight away on etc etc etc
I price out a home/home office 2GHz C2D Dell at $2589 (XPS M1710 - 1GB RAM, 100GB 7200 RPM drive, DVD Burner, XP Pro), which has one major advantage over a Macbook Pro (x1600 mobile vs. Go 7900GS), processor aside. I don't know how often Dell discounts their notebook line, but you could probably figure on getting it for a couple of hundred less with any given coupon.
One huge drawback - it only comes with a glossy screen.
The E1705 specced out similarly rolls in at $1934. No clue what the difference is aside from the screen.
One huge drawback - it only comes with a glossy screen.
The E1705 specced out similarly rolls in at $1934. No clue what the difference is aside from the screen.
Did you read what I quoted, or the posts throughout this thread?
(I would also question the idea that OS X and Apple products 'just work' at this point - Apple itself has favored bling over substance lately - Spotlight/Dashboard, rather than Fixing the Fing Finder and so on. Add in the problems plaguing the mobile line...)
Interesting article that ran in the the WSJ a few days ago.
Dell Draws Flak From PC Fans On New Desktop
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articleArchive/sep2006/dellflakdesktop.php
Michael
Dell Draws Flak From PC Fans On New Desktop
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/articleArchive/sep2006/dellflakdesktop.php
Michael
milozauckerman said:
Did you mean to say "without that ability"? Because every Dell laptop I've owned prior to my Powerbook switch (that's 3 Dell laptops, from Pentium III to Centrino, if anyone's counting) had a completely user-accessible hard drive. Unscrew one screw, slide out a drive sled, and there's your hard drive. I've upgraded and swapped drives many times on those Dells. My Powerbook, on the other hand, requires a dizzying array of steps to access the hard drive, including disconnecting delicate ribbon cables that my big clumsy hands are afraid to touch.
I am eagerly awaiting a new MB or MBP update, as I think I may finally be at the point where I am ready to upgrade.
I didn't realize that user-accessible HDs were a common, uh, feature on PC laptops. Now I'm really disappointed in Apple's 'innovations.'
I guess the last great Apple engineering feat then, is the new shuffle. But that's really a design feat.
I guess the last great Apple engineering feat then, is the new shuffle. But that's really a design feat.
Of the 5 PC laptops that have been round our family in the past few years (1 x Dell, 2 x Toshiba, 1 x Sony, 1 x Olivetti), none of them have had 'user swappable hard disks'.
In fact, none of them have even had user swappable RAM. The newest, the Dell doesn't allow you to change ANYTHING except the battery.
In fact, none of them have even had user swappable RAM. The newest, the Dell doesn't allow you to change ANYTHING except the battery.
milozauckerman said:
Of course I have, and then I replied.
I'm happy with it compared to XP as are pretty much all the people I know who've given up on XP. Yes XP is stable, and does all the things I want from a computer but not in the way I get along with and not in a way that works more often than not (prefer that?) like OSX does. I'm saying that on the whole Apple is a better package, bling or no bling.
Don't get me wrong I'm no Apple fan boy. In the computing industry they are at best the best of a bad bunch. I'll still take that though rather than the other options.
What model is that?wallock said:
If you compare Dell's mobile workstation equiv (the Precision M90) similiarly, it comes out to $2983.
HP's nw9440 Notebook PC is also in the $2600 ballpark.
I don't have time to visit Gateway's website, but I can bet you that it's similiar.
And regardless of the price ("Apple users paying a premium"), that doesn't mean that Apple's obligated to be the first, second, or even third manufacturer to pump out models with the latest processor. Your logic makes no sense to me.
gnasher729 said:
You forget the old mantra "Only Mac fanbois pay retail", Dell usually has tons of coupon codes that you can apply to knock as much as half off your totals, the retail price is there just so... for suckers really.
I also noticed you did the comparison in the UK store, why not do it in the US store where there are actually ongoing promotions going on that might derail your argument? Oh wait...
Definitely true, but you can also buy your stock Mac from Amazon and save $100 routinely or find various discount codes for Apple.com as well.generik said:
However the fact remains that it is near impossible to get all the features in many Macs in a given Dell. e.g. Dell does not offer any 13.3" notebooks (that I could find at least), and you don't usually get many the features of an MBP unless you buy an XPS or Precison model. Of course if the features that come standard with the Mac are things you don't need, you're effectively paying a premium...
B
balamw said:
There are tons of ways to save money. Recently I bought a 23" ACD. I bought gift cards on eBay and racked up a savings of $100 in addition to my EDU discount.
Apple may not have discounts, but someone who knows how to shop can always save some money.
generik said:
Because over 90% of the worlds population live outside the US?
Not being facetious here - remember that the USA is not the only place where computers are sold. the argument may not hold as much sway in the US, but it is perfectly valid in Europe. That's hardly a derail.
If you want to use the Dell coupon point, then this thread should be called "Anyone who buys any computer OTHER than a Dell pays a premium", because it's not like Apple's prices are out of line compared to HP, Gateway or Lenovo.generik said:
Dell is the one out-of-the-norm with their prices. Not that it's a bad thing, but any company not doing Dell's volume can't offer the crazy discounts. And after Dell's last fiscal quarter fiasco, it'll be intersting to see how long Dell can continue to offer them!
Is the MacBook functional: yes.
Is the MacBook fast: yes.
WHAT THE **** IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH IT?!?!?!?
Is the MacBook fast: yes.
WHAT THE **** IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH IT?!?!?!?