How was it played badly? My vote won't need to change no matter the outcome of any of the cards... It was and will continue to be a "success" vote. Why would any of the cards change that? Understand, if we turn something up with these plot cards, QoS can still No Confidence this mission before the results of the vote are made public.
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[A] The Agency - GAME OVER -- SPIES WIN
- Thread starter ravenvii
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How was it played badly? My vote won't need to change no matter the outcome of any of the cards... It was and will continue to be a "success" vote. Why would any of the cards change that? Understand, if we turn something up with these plot cards, QoS can still No Confidence this mission before the results of the vote are made public.
Not one of those cards can clear someone on the team so its unlikely we'd no confidence it - maybe if mscriv turned out to be a spy - but if he's a spy he's almost certainly have given the establish confidence to another spy so I doubt we're going to get any information that would cause us to abort the mission.
How did you know how ravenvii plays it since the OP clearly states different? We never had this case and it strikes me as premature to do so without knowledge how the gg deals with three votes already cast. We had no deadline so no need to rush as well.
I'm not sure I follow what you mean, by "my choice of agents". Are you referring to who I selected for the team, how I chose to give out the cards, or who I think are agents at this point? This is my first time in the Team Leader position and it's definitely more difficult then I expected, especially with it being Mission 1. We really have no useful data at this point to base decisions on since it's so early in the game. It's also just my second time to ever play this game before so I'm still learning. In the last game there was some criticism when a team leader picked 3 consecutive people from the list since those three couldn't be repeated on a team for several rounds. However, I also see that picking consecutive players from the list can better help establish connections with the use of cards like Eavesdrop. But, Eavesdrop is the only card that works in that manner with the "person above or below you on the list" as every other card doesn't have that restriction.
I'm sorry if you disagree with how I distributed the plot cards, but based on previous gameplay and the way people were posting I assigned them as best I could. Giving Koodauw the Eavesdrop assures he will use it on DP and not me because it would be a waste if he chose to use it on me and that would make him look suspicious. QOS has successfully used the No Confidence in the past when she was an agent so I felt comfortable giving it to her. WoodNUFC is the only person among us that I know with experience in this game and so it makes him either more helpful or more dangerous. By giving him the Establish Confidence I felt I was giving him a fairly simple role that ultimately will reveal more about me than it does about him, but I've already posted my thoughts on that earlier.
@ravenvii, in regards to the Establish Confidence card, should I send a PM to WoodNUFC or will you send him a PM to reveal my role? I won't do anything until I hear confirmation from you. I don't want to hold up the game, but I also don't want to send a PM if I'm not supposed to do so.
Why would we delay voting? Delaying is more a sign of guilt than anything. As an agent you have one choice: success. So why would we wait for a deadline to send in our votes?
It just seems to me that you are looking for things to get worked up over. He said he'll let us play the cards; let it go.
i agree that in future we should wait for the distribution of the cards -and their use- before casting votes, but in this case makes little practical difference.
no confidence can still be played
eavesdrop only gives infos on non-team members and mscriv (however, it was used on me, so that is moot).
establish confidence only gives info on mscriv.
if mscriv turns out bad, it is likely there is a single spy and qos can No confidence the mission. however, if he is bad he would have given it to the spy, so he would likely result cleared.
if he was a spy and somehow picked 3 agents than he would be found out and the mission would still be a success.
also consider that the cards must be given to different people, so each team member was going to get one no matter what.
no confidence can still be played
eavesdrop only gives infos on non-team members and mscriv (however, it was used on me, so that is moot).
establish confidence only gives info on mscriv.
if mscriv turns out bad, it is likely there is a single spy and qos can No confidence the mission. however, if he is bad he would have given it to the spy, so he would likely result cleared.
if he was a spy and somehow picked 3 agents than he would be found out and the mission would still be a success.
also consider that the cards must be given to different people, so each team member was going to get one no matter what.
In the OP the Plot Distribution Phase and the Mission Phase are two distinct and subsequent phases of the game. You are correct in that there is no specific mention of a time gap between the two, but thus far in all of our games, both this and WW, the GG has allowed players time to make decisions and send in information without penalizing us by rushing on to the next part of the game. Maybe I'm making an assumption here, but that's how I perceived what was happening.
I don't think Twietee is getting "worked up" as much as he is trying to analyze outside of the game data to see if there are any clues there. For example, I chose to get people's feedback before distributing the plot cards. However, if Twietee thought we were on a deadline he could have interpreted that as me delaying things intentionally so the plot cards couldn't be "played" before the vote. When did people receive their PM's to start the game, when did people send in their voting PM's, what time did someone post vs. when did they read the thread, etc. etc.. All of these factors are things not present in the live action version of the game and could or could not offer clues as to what someone is doing. In my opinion the problem with those clues is that they can easily be misinterpreted. For example, Twietee might not be doing this at all and I'm the one reading into things.
Edit:
I actually think having deadlines, whether it be voting or whatever, has the unintended side effect of leading to people overanalyzing "outside of the game" data. I know in WW games I always questioned why someone would wait until just before a deadline to vote or why would someone vote so early when a deadline was more than a day away. Was that a strategy or was that just how their real life schedule permitted them to interact? There's just so many factors with online forum games like this including time zones, etc.
I see Twietee's point - giving Establish Confidence to QoS would allow an eavesdrop given to DP to create a chain from Koodauw through to mscriv. Open Up would have the same affect though and we have an equal chance of seeing both of them - 1 of each card left.
I think you've hit on something that makes this game fun and challenging. We all approach the game with different strategies and levels of understanding. When someone doesn't do what you think should be done or approach the game the same way you do then does that mean they are a "bad guy" or just that they have a different strategy from you?
Well, you didn't bold your theoretical plot distribution and waited for people to comment on your plan. And so I did. Which you either ignored on purpose or missed it or whatever, but I think it's ok to ask why you did so when you asked for feedback in the first place. You did the same when you played the spy btw.
No, of course not. But see above. I think it's worth noting who rushed what decision during what circumstances. As for your list, I thought you had quite an idea in mind why you selected these agents, the reason I yay'd it immediately, but your plot distribution, which could have worked quite nicely within that framework, showed different imho. That's why I got curious and asked.
I'm not worked over by anything.
FWIW, mscriv giving me the No Confidence is a good sign for him on my internal notes - I'm an Agent, and it's a good card for us to have. It stands to reason that he'd try to give that to a fellow spy if he were a spy.
Not really - if he's a spy - its likely he'd have put 1 spy on the team and he'd give the Establish Confidence card to that spy so as to not reveal himself that early. So giving you the No confidence doesn't tell us anything about mscriv.
However, if we later find out mscriv is a spy and WoodNUFC doesn't tell us he is then it means WoodNUFC is a spy.
I think it's a powerful card for the Spies to have, more powerful than it is for the Agents. But I see your point. I think the risk in using EC the way you described is high - that could essentially out half of the spies in one go if one of them were exposed.
I'll do the PMing. I just don't want to do the mission status post on the phone so I'll conclude this turn at 8 PM when I get home.
"Koodauw, there's two men patrolling the hall!" mscriv shouted.
"I know! I see them! Oh sh --"
"What's going on?! WoodNUFC! What's going on?"
"He, uh, slipped on a wet puddle. He's being escorted out by the guards, claiming that he stayed in after hours."
"... great. This mission is a cluster -- wait, so there's no one in the hallway?"
"Uh, yeah I guess --"
"Queen of Spades! Get in there! There's no patrols! All clear!"
"Already there, cracking the combination now... damn... what the fu -- aha!"
"She's got it. She's carrying the diamond out! I'm going back on the roof for extraction!"
"Copy! WoodNUFC, up to the roof! I'll go down to the precinct to, ah, rescue Koodauw. Well done guys!"
***
"I told you, I just stayed in the closet after hours. There's a hot guard I wanted to ask out."
"I don't believe you. I'm the bad cop, and the good cop is out of town. So you --"
"He's clean. Let him go."
"Take your **** and eat -- FBI? Damn it. Fine. You can go. *******."
***
MISSION STATUS: SUCCESS
VOTES:
SUCCESS x3
FAILURE x0
***
"Well done, agents. Though the arrest is... unfortunate, you handled it adequately."
The new agents eyed each other, unsure of whether to be proud or shamed.
"This just came in this morning. A small crack team will be required for this one," the man at the end of the table nodded to another agent to his left.
"Right. So there was a major heist by one of our clients in Paris, France. There was a wrinkle, however --" he made a wavy motion with his hand "-- the leader of this heist was captured by an opposing group, also a client of ours. Our mission, should we proceed with this one, is to find and extract the leader for the first client. Then locate his body double, assassinate him, and present the body to our second client."
The table sat in bewildered silence.
***
GAME STATUS:
TURN 1 --
Leader: mscriv
Team: Koodauw, WoodNUFC, Queen of Spades
Mission: Success
Cards:
Queen of Spades [No Confidence]
Score:
Agents: 1, Spies: 0
***
@Koodauw, you're up next as team leader. You know what to do!
"I know! I see them! Oh sh --"
"What's going on?! WoodNUFC! What's going on?"
"He, uh, slipped on a wet puddle. He's being escorted out by the guards, claiming that he stayed in after hours."
"... great. This mission is a cluster -- wait, so there's no one in the hallway?"
"Uh, yeah I guess --"
"Queen of Spades! Get in there! There's no patrols! All clear!"
"Already there, cracking the combination now... damn... what the fu -- aha!"
"She's got it. She's carrying the diamond out! I'm going back on the roof for extraction!"
"Copy! WoodNUFC, up to the roof! I'll go down to the precinct to, ah, rescue Koodauw. Well done guys!"
***
"I told you, I just stayed in the closet after hours. There's a hot guard I wanted to ask out."
"I don't believe you. I'm the bad cop, and the good cop is out of town. So you --"
"He's clean. Let him go."
"Take your **** and eat -- FBI? Damn it. Fine. You can go. *******."
***
MISSION STATUS: SUCCESS
VOTES:
SUCCESS x3
FAILURE x0
***
"Well done, agents. Though the arrest is... unfortunate, you handled it adequately."
The new agents eyed each other, unsure of whether to be proud or shamed.
"This just came in this morning. A small crack team will be required for this one," the man at the end of the table nodded to another agent to his left.
"Right. So there was a major heist by one of our clients in Paris, France. There was a wrinkle, however --" he made a wavy motion with his hand "-- the leader of this heist was captured by an opposing group, also a client of ours. Our mission, should we proceed with this one, is to find and extract the leader for the first client. Then locate his body double, assassinate him, and present the body to our second client."
The table sat in bewildered silence.
***
GAME STATUS:
TURN 1 --
Leader: mscriv
Team: Koodauw, WoodNUFC, Queen of Spades
Mission: Success
Cards:
Queen of Spades [No Confidence]
Score:
Agents: 1, Spies: 0
***
@Koodauw, you're up next as team leader. You know what to do!
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Well, it's a point for the agents. But, as we all know there is a real possibility that one or more of the three I picked could be a spy in hiding. Let's see what the plot cards tell us.
imo, if there's only one spy, it would be a failure. The possibility of two or three spy are very low.
Wood was the only spy on the first mission last game and he voted success so its not a certain that a single spy would have failed the mission.
Have we had the results of the eavesdrop on DP yet? I don't remember seeing it - if we have and he's an agent this would seem to make sense.