[A] The Agency - GAME OVER -- SPIES WIN

[Don't panic]

This makes sense apart from the 'Techgod as a Team Leader. At least he comes in without any baggage, unlike QoS'

QoS's original team suggestion FenrisMoonlight, mscriv, TechGod, twietee
QoS's final team choice mscriv, Wood, Fenris, Twietee

The only difference there being swapping TechGod for Wood - so if QoS is a spy the options for spies on the team are:
TechGod/Wood, Fenris, Twietee.

I know I'm not a spy, so

if QoS failed mission 2, TechGod/Wood and/or Twietee is likely to be a spy.

The next two team leaders if we Nay QoS are TechGod followed by Wood. If you think QoS is a spy, can you really trust either of the next two team leaders? If we Nayed both of those, we'd then have to Yay whatever team Sythas proposes as anything else would be instawin for the spies. It would certainly be interesting to see what teams they proposed though.

We're close to locking in this decision and I'd really like to see how some of the less active members vote so I'm going to hold off voting atm.

if you put it that way, than we are never getting a team together, since some argument can always be construed to make almost anyone a putative spy.

first off, i don't think QoS is a spy. I know she is one. And so does her, and 3-4 other people. (the other 3 spies and koodauw -who could be a spy himself-) for the remaining agents, they do know she has a 50% chance of being a spy, and that she was on two proven spy-carrying teams.
we don't know any of that of techgod. i don't trust him in the same measure that i don't trust you or twietee, or really anyone else except mscriv (although not everyone is on the same level).

 

[twietee]

TechGod/Wood, Fenris, Twietee.

There you have it: the fact that she easily switched Tech for Wood means that one of twietee/Fenris/Wood is a spy (assuming QoS is a spy). If we consider DP a spy, Koodauw is one as well. His list contained twietee/Fenris/Moyank, so

in all likelyhood, theres who? mscriv, Sythas and TechGod left who aren't connected to one of those. TechGod was brought into play by both, DP as well as QoS but got exchanged without much ado.

 

[twietee]

^meaning that there will be at least two others on the mission (in case TechGod is teamleader or one of the other two) who are inevitable somehow connected to either QoS or DP or to both anyway.

 

[Queen of Spades]

Well, I tried, and it looks like I'll be squarely in the passenger seat from here on out. So I'll just remind everyone that I'm an Agent. DP is lying to your face (screen) - yet again - but I trust the rest of the Agents will make some good choices and get us through.

 

[WoodNUFC]

Right now the only people I trust entirely are mscriv and myself.

DP is doing a masterful job at the hard sell, but I'm not buying it. I haven't seen anything that proves that QoS is a spy other than DP claiming it. I honestly think it's a bunch of bluster for the sole purpose of creating mass confusion.

Let's just remember that DP and QoS have voted the same number of times: once. That mission failed. One of them has to be a spy. The way this has played out, I trust QoS's claims, and I highly doubt that DP is who Koodauw says he is.

 

[twietee]

Well, I tried, and it looks like I'll be squarely in the passenger seat from here on out. So I'll just remind everyone that I'm an Agent. DP is lying to your face (screen) - yet again - but I trust the rest of the Agents will make some good choices and get us through.

don't give in, agent Spades! stay on board, we need you*!


* only in case you really are an successful agent

 

[Queen of Spades]

Right now the only people I trust entirely are mscriv and myself.

DP is doing a masterful job at the hard sell, but I'm not buying it. I haven't seen anything that proves that QoS is a spy other than DP claiming it. I honestly think it's a bunch of bluster for the sole purpose of creating mass confusion.

Let's just remember that DP and QoS have voted the same number of times: once. That mission failed. One of them has to be a spy. The way this has played out, I trust QoS's claims, and I highly doubt that DP is who Koodauw says he is.

I voted twice - first mission was a success with me on it. Second mission was not with me and DP on it. I'll leave the math on that one to you.

don't give in, agent Spades! stay on board, we need you*!


* only in case you really are an successful agent

I won't, abandoning the cause is never my style. I just feel like I'm repeating myself with no additional evidence, so I'll step aside and let my brilliant fellow Agents connect the dots about me and DP.

I still think mscriv, Wood, and twietee is a good place to start. But especially the first two.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

Right now the only people I trust entirely are mscriv and myself.

DP is doing a masterful job at the hard sell, but I'm not buying it. I haven't seen anything that proves that QoS is a spy other than DP claiming it. I honestly think it's a bunch of bluster for the sole purpose of creating mass confusion.

Let's just remember that DP and QoS have voted the same number of times: once. That mission failed. One of them has to be a spy. The way this has played out, I trust QoS's claims, and I highly doubt that DP is who Koodauw says he is.

QoS has voted twice - she was on the successful mission 1 with you as well.

 

[twietee]

I trust QoS's claims, and I highly doubt that DP is who Koodauw says he is.

What makes you say that? I don't trust DP either, but QoS isn't bad at making things up with what she writes at all. in fact, i believe she makes a fortune with that in real life..

so, any observation you care to share or is it just a gut feeling? i got that too, but i try to suspend it where possible.

 

[WoodNUFC]

I voted twice - first mission was a success with me on it. Second mission was not with me and DP on it. I'll leave the math on that one to you.



I won't, abandoning the cause is never my style. I just feel like I'm repeating myself with no additional evidence, so I'll step aside and let my brilliant fellow Agents connect the dots about me and DP.

I still think mscriv, Wood, and twietee is a good place to start. But especially the first two.

QoS has voted twice - she was on the successful mission 1 with you as well.

Doh! Of course. I was writing so quickly that my brain stopped there for a second. My apologies!

 

[twietee]

Ah, a new avatar..that changes everything!

"brilliant fellow agents" - i hope that 's not slang for morons!

 

[mscriv]

We have a great standoff at this point. Both QOS and DP are doing a great job pleading their case. It's also interesting how they are both utilizing similar players for their teams. Crafty, crafty...

 

[WoodNUFC]

What makes you say that? I don't trust DP either, but QoS isn't bad at making things up with what she writes at all. in fact, i believe she makes a fortune with that in real life..

so, any observation you care to share or is it just a gut feeling? i got that too, but i try to suspend it where possible.

Here are my observations:
1) There are only two ways to know anyone's role for certain in this game. The first, is to be a spy and have knowledge of everyone's role. The second is through a plot card. Since DP hasn't learned anything about QoS through plot cards, the only way he'd know anything about her is if he's a spy.

2) In this game--as in politics--the loudest person usually wins. If we look at the tone of the posts from each, in my opinion, it's clear that DP is throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. QoS seriously appears to be defending herself.

DP's claim that he knows QoS is a spy is only possible if they are both spies. More plausibly, DP is the spy and is trying to frame QoS.

Given that, I think this team should be approved.

 

[twietee]

DP's claim that he knows QoS is a spy is only possible if they are both spies. More plausibly, DP is the spy and is trying to frame QoS.

Ehm, she claims the same. And both actually have to do that (maybe both are right though, could be ): one of them voted failure on mission two - that's a fact. It's strange that you question that since it's only you and me that both know for a fact that mscriv is an agent.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

Here are my observations:
1) There are only two ways to know anyone's role for certain in this game. The first, is to be a spy and have knowledge of everyone's role. The second is through a plot card. Since DP hasn't learned anything about QoS through plot cards, the only way he'd know anything about her is if he's a spy.

2) In this game--as in politics--the loudest person usually wins. If we look at the tone of the posts from each, in my opinion, it's clear that DP is throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks. QoS seriously appears to be defending herself.

DP's claim that he knows QoS is a spy is only possible if they are both spies. More plausibly, DP is the spy and is trying to frame QoS.

Given that, I think this team should be approved.

DP's claim that QoS is a spy is based on him believing that you and Twietee are telling the truth about mscriv (i.e. its not the 3 of you that are spies) and that he himself is an agent. If you accept those two as being true then QoS has to be the spy.

QoS claim DP is the spy is based on exactly the same two things.

 

[WoodNUFC]

Ehm, she claims the same. And both actually have to do that (maybe both are right though, could be ): one of them voted failure on mission two - that's a fact. It's strange that you question that since it's only you and me that both know for a fact that mscriv is an agent.

You are right about the first thought. It is very possible that they are both spies, and both are telling the truth.

I'm not sure I follow that last sentence, though. Could you elaborate?
If I'm understanding you correctly, you are wondering why I'm not questioning who failed the vote. The answer is stated above. I know mscriv is an agent, who had no reason to fail the vote, and I voted publicly, you know how I voted. That leaves DP and QoS, like I stated earlier, and only of them voted to fail. So either both of them are spies or only one of them is a spy trying to frame the other.

 

[twietee]

I'm not sure I follow that last sentence, though. Could you elaborate?

Well, you said DP would have to be a spy to know about QoS. But why? One of them voted fail and one success, they know exactly what the other did - regardless the alliance. QoS also said that DP is a spy (what else can they say at this point anyway?) yet you only point into DPs direction and call him out for doing so. That's what I don't get.

 

[WoodNUFC]

DP's claim that QoS is a spy is based on him believing that you and Twietee are telling the truth about mscriv (i.e. its not the 3 of you that are spies) and that he himself is an agent. If you accept those two as being true then QoS has to be the spy.

QoS claim DP is the spy is based on exactly the same two things.

You are right, you have to accept both of those claims to believe either one. Which is tricky, obviously.

We have no proof about QoS, but we have Koodauw vouching for DP. For all we know, Koodauw and DP are both spies, and Koodauw lied. We really shouldn't rule that scenario out. We really need another person to verify DP's identity.

At this point I'm going with my gut, which is telling me that QoS is being honest here.

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

You are right about the first thought. It is very possible that they are both spies, and both are telling the truth.

I'm not sure I follow that last sentence, though. Could you elaborate?
If I'm understanding you correctly, you are wondering why I'm not questioning who failed the vote. The answer is stated above. I know mscriv is an agent, who had no reason to fail the vote, and I voted publicly, you know how I voted. That leaves DP and QoS, like I stated earlier, and only of them voted to fail. So either both of them are spies or only one of them is a spy trying to frame the other.

I agree with Twietee. I found it odd that you were questioning DP's claim QoS is a spy. Since you both know if mscriv is an agent or not. If you accept the fact he is an agent (since he has been cleared twice) then the argument from both of them is that they are an agent so the other must be a spy - which makes logical sense. It didn't make sense that your saying DP can no nothing about QoS unless he's a spy.

 

[WoodNUFC]

Well, you said DP would have to be a spy to know about QoS. But why? One of them voted fail and one success, they know exactly what the other did - regardless the alliance. QoS also said that DP is a spy (what else can they say at this point anyway?) yet you only point into DPs direction and call him out for doing so. That's what I don't get.

Ah gotcha, sorry for the misunderstanding.

It comes down to game mechanics. What is the first thing that happens every game? The spies are told they are spies. You learn this as a group, not individually. So each game begins with 4 spies that know each other's role as spy. In knowing that, they then know that each of the 6 other players are agents.

So I'm pointing my finger at DP, because of semantics. He said he doesn't believe QoS is a spy, he knows that she is a spy. That is a very confident thing to say with no proof. For QoS it comes down to the fact that she knows her role, and she knows how she's voted. When she says that DP is the spy, it's because she alone knows that he is lying about her.

But then again, we are right back to square one. Both are making these claims, and neither can prove the other wrong, yet.

These are just my hunches. I'm not certain about any of these either, but this is my experience in the game. For what that's worth.

 

[twietee]

For all we know, Koodauw and DP are both spies, and Koodauw lied. We really shouldn't rule that scenario out. We really need another person to verify DP's identity.

At this point I'm going with my gut, which is telling me that QoS is being honest here.

Well, do whatever you deem the right thing to do, but this really is a bold statement re QoS and I see nobody giving DP/Koodauw a carte blanche at all either. We're now voting on QoS's team, not DPs, so I can't really follow your reasoning why we should just go with hers that easily. It's 50/50 (at best) but there are more possible teamleaders than just those two. And it would still be our 2nd nay'd mission so not THAT worriesome..

 

[WoodNUFC]

Well, do whatever you deem the right thing to do, but this really is a bold statement re QoS and I see nobody giving DP/Koodauw a carte blanche at all either. We're now voting on QoS's team, not DPs, so I can't really follow your reasoning why we should just go with hers that easily. It's 50/50 (at best) but there are more possible teamleaders than just those two. And it would still be our 2nd nay'd mission so not THAT worriesome..

I understand all of that. But my reasoning for supporting QoS's team comes from my belief that she is telling the truth. Obviously, we don't know if she's telling the truth, but I'm going with my gut.

 

[TechGod]

Nay

 

[FenrisMoonlight]

Mission Aborted

Votes
nay: 5 Koodauw, Moyank24, Don't panic, twietee, TechGod
yay: 1 WoodNUFC

Yet to vote: Sythas, FenrisMoonlight, mscriv

Voting Log
Post 610 Koodauw voted for nay
Post 612 WoodNUFC voted for yay
Post 613 Moyank24 voted for nay
Post 622 Don't panic voted for nay
Post 623 twietee voted for nay
Post 648 TechGod voted for nay

 

[Don't panic]

I voted twice - first mission was a success with me on it. Second mission was not with me and DP on it. I'll leave the math on that one to you.



I won't, abandoning the cause is never my style. I just feel like I'm repeating myself with no additional evidence, so I'll step aside and let my brilliant fellow Agents connect the dots about me and DP.

I still think mscriv, Wood, and twietee is a good place to start. But especially the first two.

this is an incredibly misleading statement.
we know for a fact there was an agent on mission 1, and that that agent voted success
therefore, the fact that you voted success does not in any way whatsoever help you.