You know what, you guys are all right with me. Forget about 17 suicides within two months. Let's care more about the chickens and pigs and cows.
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ABC Previews 'Nightline' Visit to Foxconn's Chinese Factories
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You know what, you guys are all right with me. Forget about 17 suicides within two months. Let's care more about the chickens and pigs and cows.
I have to say, knowing how much Apple charges for their products, I am disgusted that they hire w/ a company like Foxconn that only pays it's employes $1.50 an hour. As much as I enjoy my Apple products, it makes me think twice about buying another.
People here would be even more excited about Apple as a company if they knew that the products were made right here in the USA. It would certainly help our economy too.
Made in the USA
Looks awesome and has a great ring to it.
and.. this is why you don't own a business. why are you going to make products in the US when you can get them made in another country for cheaper. this is the greatest business strategy since the beginning of time.
and $1.50/hr to them is MORE than minimum wage to the rest of china.
also, to the people complaining about work conditions. they need to calm down. first off, they weren't forced to work there. as far as i'm concerned, they wanted to work there. that's like me going to mcdonald's and complaining about the working conditions there... just no. shut up.
Ummm...
Defensive much???
You shouldn't assume that this person doesn't already have their own business in America. I have my own business here in the USA even though it isn't listed on my MacRumors resume.
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Excuse me but I DO OWN a Business in the USA!!!!!
Defensive much???
You shouldn't assume that this person doesn't already have their own business in America. I have my own business here in the USA even though it isn't listed on my MacRumors resume.
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Excuse me but I DO OWN a Business in the USA!!!!!
In America the suicide rate per million people is about 118 a year. That is 9.8 or about 10 people a month. There is less suicides there, ratio-wise, than here in America.
I obviously am not here to say that suicide is okay or anything like that at all. I am saying, though, that people getting their $1.50 an hour seem to be more content with life than the average American.
my school is worse than this, and we pay them.(No really, this is not in the USA. It's in Zambia where its signed as a learning centre so no government inspections. That means that they can even shoot us.) Really, every day I get genuinely farm animal conditions.
we must have taken different economics classes in college....
Someone, somewhere will be taking a HUGE pay cut (think Apple) if their products are manufactured in the U.S.
I don't care what the NY Times said, the math doesn't lie: currently Apple's margins are excellent (yes, because of the cheap labor), however if that same labor now is getting more pay, health benefits, dental etc. then those margins shrink or even go away. The extra costs will get passed on to the consumer, hence your $2,500 iPad (and yes I made that number up).
No one is claiming that Apple isn't making insane profits largely from the inexpensive labor force that manufactures it's products. But be careful if you start demonizing success because then you are applauding failure.
Being the most valuable company in the world, all eyes are set on Apple..they started the post pc era, others followed...why not establish better working conditions..maybe others will follow too?!
First, that is the nicest looking "sweat shop" I have ever seen. From all of the evidence over the years, it appears the factories are for the most part top-notch. Maybe the Nightline special will show us this isn't the case.
The main issue, in my eyes, seems to be the low-quality housing available (or is it mandatory) to these workers, and the low pay. Without hope of their hard work paying off, such as being able to buy a house, and any of the other things we take for granted in the western world, you could essentially call this slave labor.
I expect Apple to do their part in bettering the situation, but in the end this is down to Foxconn and the nation of China to provide better for these workers. If that means increased prices to Apple and the endless list of other manufacturers, so be it.
PS, it would be great if we could get an inside look at Foxconn Brazil, and see how the conditions compare.
The main issue, in my eyes, seems to be the low-quality housing available (or is it mandatory) to these workers, and the low pay. Without hope of their hard work paying off, such as being able to buy a house, and any of the other things we take for granted in the western world, you could essentially call this slave labor.
I expect Apple to do their part in bettering the situation, but in the end this is down to Foxconn and the nation of China to provide better for these workers. If that means increased prices to Apple and the endless list of other manufacturers, so be it.
PS, it would be great if we could get an inside look at Foxconn Brazil, and see how the conditions compare.
Look at the areas the workers come from. Either way, China's overall cost of living is less than USA/Europe for the average person.
Understand the point very well, like I said, let's just drop it; you don't care nor want to understand where I am coming from, so since there's no middle ground there's no need to keep beating a dead horse.
Realize when to call it quits.
Don't worry about it. Chickens and other animals with big eyes and cute faces drawn on them is greater than Chinese factory workers.
Why else would they be escorted around the facility instead of just having free reign? If they have nothing to hide, then they would have just opened the doors and said have at it. A simple non-disclosure agreement would have kept any secrets about the products under wraps, while still allowing them journalistic freedom to dig as deep as they want. They are trying to hide things, no question about it. Just what they are hiding is anyones guess.
If you want to glue yourself to your tv and drink the cool-aid they are going to serve thats fine. I'm looking at it from a different perspective, which is what i suggest most folks do whenever the media is involved in communist countries.
Most tech companies that outsource their suppliers have some reference to said suppliers responsibility to it's employees.
Apple (and I'm sure other firms) have been upfront on what those responsibilities are.
In this day and age it's almost impossible for any company to keep abuses hidden.
As the most valuable tech firm in the world Apple must have the strength of their convictions to ensure that this is seen or, at the very least, perceived. In this respect Apple is very much under the spotlight.
You're setting yourself up for an almighty fall if you're found lacking or lying.
But I think it's incredibly negligent of any legitimate journalist, or blogger, to focus on just one company. Surely the best way to effect change is get all companies to face up to their responsibilities?
One could see the use of ABC as a cynical manoeuvre of the Apple/Disney connection. Personally I'd be more interested to see the Fair Labor Association report, and then let the other tech firms strive to prove their quality before throwing stones at that glass house.
Apple (and I'm sure other firms) have been upfront on what those responsibilities are.
In this day and age it's almost impossible for any company to keep abuses hidden.
As the most valuable tech firm in the world Apple must have the strength of their convictions to ensure that this is seen or, at the very least, perceived. In this respect Apple is very much under the spotlight.
You're setting yourself up for an almighty fall if you're found lacking or lying.
But I think it's incredibly negligent of any legitimate journalist, or blogger, to focus on just one company. Surely the best way to effect change is get all companies to face up to their responsibilities?
One could see the use of ABC as a cynical manoeuvre of the Apple/Disney connection. Personally I'd be more interested to see the Fair Labor Association report, and then let the other tech firms strive to prove their quality before throwing stones at that glass house.
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Same here (missing the point). And my numbers on Foxconn were way off too BTW. Nobody is trying to downplay the tragedy of suicide, but to suggest that Foxconn is above average is just plain wrong. You look at any group of that size and there are going to be suicides. You can work on reducing them but it's not something to be all that outraged over. Again as it has pointed out, thats why we use suicide rates and not just raw numbers - it is far more valuable since it allows us to derive more context.
Content with life? Who ever said they were content. They are trained from a very young age not to think for themselves and to act like robots. Do you think the civilians of North Korea are content and love their leader? Do some research, they have been brain washed. They though kim jong il was god, not a god, but the god. They also think america needs to be destroyed by any means possible and we are the root of all evil. So don't mix low suicide rates with being content, they just take orders and realize very early they have no shot at anything better. They know very early on you go to work, come home and have 2 kids. They might as well be living in cages.
In the US, we rarely complain about the salaries of fast food and retail employees. Those jobs are paid relatively low compared to a white collar job.
Foxcomm jobs are essentially unskilled labour assembling parts for Apple... hence the low pay.
Foxcomm jobs are essentially unskilled labour assembling parts for Apple... hence the low pay.
This is why they increased wages just this last week. The problem i have is you have the richest company on this planet who is notorious for making incredible profits off its products employing human robots in other countries at a fraction of the price they can get elsewhere due to the fact they don't need to pay them the amount of money they are worth or any of the benefits the rest of the world enjoys.
It's a state of mind. Humans should always have the hope that they can better their own life through hard work. That's exactly why there are so many workers at the ready for Foxconn. But that hope quickly fades away when they are stuck in these living conditions.
If you were essentially stuck in a dorm with suicide nets installed outside the windows, wouldn't you feel a bit stuck, or like a slave?
Concerning this
My friend and I had a conversation about this, and the main point is this has been going on for years. So now, after Apple is so successful, people are bringing it up? By the way, isn't it FOXCONN that operates and is being paid by Apple to build its products? Why is Apple responsible all of a sudden for how a completely separate company runs its factories?
Is this slave labor? Are these people being forced to work for nothing while working with a gun pointed at the back of their heads? Why are so many people waiting in line for a "job" if these are such horrendous conditions??? I can't believe the atrocious idea that those people committing suicide off of that roof are a direct result to Apple's success of its products. This whole thing is being blown way out of proportion in my view.
My friend and I had a conversation about this, and the main point is this has been going on for years. So now, after Apple is so successful, people are bringing it up? By the way, isn't it FOXCONN that operates and is being paid by Apple to build its products? Why is Apple responsible all of a sudden for how a completely separate company runs its factories?
Is this slave labor? Are these people being forced to work for nothing while working with a gun pointed at the back of their heads? Why are so many people waiting in line for a "job" if these are such horrendous conditions??? I can't believe the atrocious idea that those people committing suicide off of that roof are a direct result to Apple's success of its products. This whole thing is being blown way out of proportion in my view.
Yes, lower, but some areas like Shanghai, Beijing, it is getting quiet expensive to live in.
I understand what you're saying, and we are fortunate to be in a rich country. But these workers are better off, and their children will likely do even better. It's not realistic to compare them to the Western middle class.
This will be interesting to see. I just hate how they only focus on one company even though there are multiple companies that pretty much do the same thing. Did you see all those people hoping to get a job? While it may not have amazing pay, there are lots of people that are willing to do the job.
Get them better chairs, that might help
Get them better chairs, that might help
They could probably build the machines, but then lots of people will be out of work. You'll then need people to watch the machines to keep them consistent and efficient. But, when a new product is released they probably would have to reconfigure and/or design and build new machines. This might be the cheaper route.