Accidentally bought a working 1.5GHz G4 Mini

[MrCheeto]

I've been on a mission to "collect them all". I'm not looking for every Mac but to be able to run basically any Mac App or use any function.

This means I need to be able to run Classic Mac with OS 8 and 9, PowerPC OS X, Intel OS X, and current M1 architecture.

Today, I believe I've completed my journey.

While I was searching for a Mac Pro to run Leopard, I asked the community here what the best OS 9 and OS X Mac would be (except for Tower Macs). That left the Mac Mini G4 as the golden fleece to hunt down.

I got my Mac Pro and it is currently running Leopard. So I turned to searching for this G4. I expected a 1.42ghz config at best though I was strictly looking for the 64MB VRAM model. I found one for sale and it's described as "beeps three times". The seller gave me the specs as 1.42ghz, 64MB VRAM and 512MB RAM. This ticked all my boxes so I took a chance at $70.

I just got it home and plugged it in. Three beeps. I pulled the case off and re-seated the RAM and found that it is a 1GB upgrade! I also noticed that there is a disc in the optical drive and that somebody had certainly been here before. This didn't bode well.

I plug it in and press the Power button. GONG

It shows the loading wheel for a few minutes then loses power. I power on again and it boots to the last user's login. Not one for wasting time: I booted into Single User Mode and deleted the .AppleSetupDone file. I was greeted with the familiar hippie chant music and flying Leopard numeral. I setup my new temporary user, changed the old users permissions, and started browsing his Apps and Classic Apps folders for any treasure. This whole process was a matter of eleven minutes with bathroom break.

While I don't open personal files, I did search the system to see when it was last modified. It seems the last edit was October 22 2012 but then a single App (iTunes) shows it was modified in 2013... I opened a time-capsule almost ten-years to the date!

The previous user did not have any Apps installed; just Mozilla, Super Duper and Clean My Mac. This always leads me to believe they barely used it before realizing a G4 is not a good idea in, in this case, 2012.

I always try to collect deprecated Apps because they are getting hard to find.

This Mini also came with a genuine pressed Tiger DVD. Now to discover what is stuck inside the drive...

What do I do with my new toy? (Obviously Sorbet among other OS')

 

[SecretSquirrel]

I've been on a mission to "collect them all". I'm not looking for every Mac but to be able to run basically any Mac App or use any function.

This means I need to be able to run Classic Mac with OS 8 and 9, PowerPC OS X, Intel OS X, and current M1 architecture.

Today, I believe I've completed my journey.

While I was searching for a Mac Pro to run Leopard, I asked the community here what the best OS 9 and OS X Mac would be (except for Tower Macs). That left the Mac Mini G4 as the golden fleece to hunt down.

I got my Mac Pro and it is currently running Leopard. So I turned to searching for this G4. I expected a 1.42ghz config at best though I was strictly looking for the 64MB VRAM model. I found one for sale and it's described as "beeps three times". The seller gave me the specs as 1.42ghz, 64MB VRAM and 512MB RAM. This ticked all my boxes so I took a chance at $70.

I just got it home and plugged it in. Three beeps. I pulled the case off and re-seated the RAM and found that it is a 1GB upgrade! I also noticed that there is a disc in the optical drive and that somebody had certainly been here before. This didn't bode well.

I plug it in and press the Power button. GONG

It shows the loading wheel for a few minutes then loses power. I power on again and it boots to the last user's login. Not one for wasting time: I booted into Single User Mode and deleted the .AppleSetupDone file. I was greeted with the familiar hippie chant music and flying Leopard numeral. I setup my new temporary user, changed the old users permissions, and started browsing his Apps and Classic Apps folders for any treasure. This whole process was a matter of eleven minutes with bathroom break.

While I don't open personal files, I did search the system to see when it was last modified. It seems the last edit was October 22 2012 but then a single App (iTunes) shows it was modified in 2013... I opened a time-capsule almost ten-years to the date!

The previous user did not have any Apps installed; just Mozilla, Super Duper and Clean My Mac. This always leads me to believe they barely used it before realizing a G4 is not a good idea in, in this case, 2012.

I always try to collect deprecated Apps because they are getting hard to find.

This Mini also came with a genuine pressed Tiger DVD. Now to discover what is stuck inside the drive...

What do I do with my new toy? (Obviously Sorbet among other OS')

View attachment 2099366

That’s a very happy accident. If you’re collecting rarities, that’s one to have. Enjoy!

 

[barracuda156]

I always try to collect deprecated Apps because they are getting hard to find.

That is why I got a second PowerMac

Congratulations!

 

[MrCheeto]

I was actually pretty shocked to see 1.5GHz as Apple never distinguished the 1.42GHz from 1.5GHz in the information on the bottom of the Mac or on the box. Besides that, it's somewhat rare so I didn't have any hopes of finding it. I don't think that 800mhz really makes that much difference but this has been full of surprises.

I was wrong about the software the user installed. It was not Clean My Mac. It was TuneupMyMac which is an Intel app and so wouldn't launch.

The apps, limited usage, and another surprise tell the tale that I heard oh so often during the early Intel days.

Many people brought their G4 machines to me around 2008-2010 for repair and service. They were greatly disappointed to learn that the premium they had just paid for "a Mac" did not buy what they expected from Intel machines. I'd love to go into detail but some of the reactions were almost scary when I had to tell a customer that YouTube and Flash were just never going to be fluid on a G4 PowerBook, or that their version of FL Studio etc wouldn't run on PPC. This is where I recognized a pattern that I see with this Mini.

Purchase "a Mac" expecting the Justin Long experience from TV. Befuddled by the pitiful performance on the web and inability to play almost any media fluidly. Concerned about the heat and fan noise and abounding limitations, they turn to the web to search for solutions for a slow Mac. This is where apps like TuneupMyMac come in and suggestions like using "lighter" browsers like FireFox and Opera. Finding no solution, and seeing that some downloaded apps aren't even supported, they realize it is likely hopeless to continue trying.

In this case, though, I have a witness to the downturn.

I couldn't eject the CD and it wasn't even detected within the system. I ventured inside again to check the connection and just like the RAM it was not fully seated. I started and heard the disc drive whir. I pressed eject and expected to find an OS disc and what came out was but wasn't what I expected. See below/right.

I think this is the point the last owner just gave up and switched computers.

Thanks to our friends at OS9Lives, I have now been able to load OS 9, Tiger, and Leopard on this Mini tonight. I plan to swap Leopard for Sorbet Leopard.




You guys have any more suggestions? My only real goal is to keep the OS' accessible so that I always have "a Mac for that" and to keep the filthy Amiga fans from defiling yet another classic.

 

[Amethyst1]

You guys have any more suggestions?

SSD, anyone?

[…] to keep the filthy Amiga fans from defiling yet another classic.

What are they doing?

 

[MrCheeto]

SSD, anyone?


What are they doing?

Criminal Activity.

Not really interested in SSD's for slower ATA devices, though.

Downloading Sorbet now

 

[Amethyst1]

Not really interested in SSD's for slower ATA devices, though.

I'll let others share their positive experiences with mSATA and m.2 SSDs in ATA systems

 

[Dronecatcher]

when I had to tell a customer that YouTube and Flash were just never going to be fluid on a G4 PowerBook, or that their version of FL Studio etc wouldn't run on PPC.

You must have been living in a parallel universe - my PowerPCs in that era were fine online and ClickToFlash turned any Youtube hiccups into painless playback - or even better, use MacTubes or YouView.

As for FL Studio - who'd want to run that when you can have the vastly superior Propellerhead's Reason on Mac

 

[MrCheeto]

You must have been living in a parallel universe - my PowerPCs in that era were fine online and ClickToFlash turned any Youtube hiccups into painless playback - or even better, use MacTubes or YouView.

As for FL Studio - who'd want to run that when you can have the vastly superior Propellerhead's Reason on Mac

Try explaining that to somebody that can't understand what an operating system is and that not all computers run Windows.

I was well aware of the work-arounds for PPC Leopard of the day. I had too many G4's around that time to count and too many G4 service calls. Flash was the worst culprit of all. When HTML5 YouTube Beta became a thing, it was the easiest way to help a customer use YouTube as intended. Otherwise, the viewer apps like MacTubes was a major point of frustration for somebody that just bought a Mac expecting the "best" only to find they had to work around limitations.

There is no comparing online media streaming performance, app compatibility, and thermal performance between a G4 from 2006 and a Core 2 Duo MacBook from 2006 in the year 2008. PPC cracks started showing as app developers fled the platform and web 2.0 was being ramped up at a screaming pace.

 

[Dronecatcher]

Try explaining that to somebody that can't understand what an operating system is and that not all computers run Windows.

Fair enough if you were dealing with people buying PowerPCs in 2008 and thinking they're same as Intel Macs.

Personally, I found the switch to HTML5 video problematic - all my Macs could handle Flash video ok (with or without workarounds) but began to struggle with HTML5.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Purchase "a Mac" expecting the Justin Long experience from TV. Befuddled by the pitiful performance on the web and inability to play almost any media fluidly.

Emphasis mine... Are you referring to online media? The Mac Mini G4 can play a wide variety of media formats fluidly: from audio to video - including up to 720p. It has a CD/DVD drive as standard.

I'll let others share their positive experiences with mSATA and m.2 SSDs in ATA systems

I have an SSD in my Mini (along with other PPC Macs) and even factoring in the limitations of the ATA bus, the performance gains are drastic over that of an ATA drive - especially a stock Apple unit, which would've had a lower RPM than other HDDs of the era, thereby reducing the Mini's performance potential. I certainly don't miss the ATA HDD in my Mini.

 

[Slix]

I use one of these Mac Minis as my home Mac Server dishing up NetBoot images. Mine is still running it's original 80GB HDD, but when it dies I'll be sure to pop an SSD in it. It's a pretty good Mac, and one of the best PowerPCs, especially for its size! Nice find.

 

[SecretSquirrel]

I'll let others share their positive experiences with mSATA and m.2 SSDs in ATA systems

The ATA bus can handle a theoretical 133Mb/s (never saw it but hey-ho) but your HDD will only read/write 30-40 Mb/s. A SSD will far exceed what the bus can handle so you’ll definitely see a noticeable improvement in real-world terms. I installed mSATA cards in a couple of PB12s years ago and while it made a real difference in how the machines performed, I found in that particular application, the PB12s had a tendency to run hot. I eventually concluded that the mSATA interface was generating too much heat for the marginal PB cooling system to handle. Solved the problem with a commercially available ATA SSD. You should be ok however in a mini case- it’s a bit less cramped in there.

 

[GMShadow]

I've never cared for Leopard on anything without CoreImage support, but obviously that's not an option on the G4 mini.

Excellent find though - I lucked out finding a 1.5 on eBay a few years back, though it was a sorry situation - the owner had died, and family were selling off his possessions.

 

[Doq]

I'll let others share their positive experiences with mSATA and m.2 SSDs in ATA systems

Even if the difference in raw speed isn't the performance jump you're looking for, having an SSD even on the aging PATA bus gives a giant reduction in latency, which far better affects the perceived 'snappiness' of the operating system and applications than raw speed will. Files will be instantly accessible on an SSD as opposed to having the HDD's heads move back and forth to load the bits.

Putting an mSATA in my Companion was the best upgrade I could give it and it feels like a much newer machine just on snappiness alone.

There's also a bit of a power consumption reduction, though that may not be pertinent as much of OP's mini, being plugged in to the mains and all.

 

[barracuda156]

I've never cared for Leopard on anything without CoreImage support, but obviously that's not an option on the G4 mini.

Well, we have 10.6 for PPC. The only thing left is backport CoreImage from 10.6.8

 

[MrCheeto]

Are you referring to online media?

Mostly. I tried everything I could but most customers were never satisfied with the performance with web media. I can't blame them. The G4 PowerBooks would reach melting temps just loading Grooveshark. YouTube with flash was a slideshow. At a certain point, MacTube began to drop a few frames and downloading each video individually to play totally locally was the only option. Understand the kind of people that wouldn't understand the difference between architectures and then try to see how they need these things to "just work" without band-aids and work-arounds.

I've never cared for Leopard on anything without CoreImage support

It's OK. I already have Sorbet Leopard! That's three OS' on this new work-horse.

I wouldn't be interested in more performance than a spinning hard disk would offer. Some people like the Amazon LED plastic brake light on their 60's motorcycle. I won't argue that it is technically better but it is tasteless and betrays the intrinsic qualities. Spinning drives for my OS9 and System 7 machines. Floppies if I ever had an all-in-one Macintosh. That's part of the experience.


I've got OS 9 booting just fine. A few issues, though, if anybody can help. I can not get any audio out of the AUX. The "Speaker" tab is grayed out and if I adjust the Volume it just snaps back to zero. Secondly, my control strip is in the middle of the display, height-wise. How could I adjust it?

 

[Bug-Creator]

While it us a good find there was no accident involved. By limiting your search to 64MB VRAM you also limited yourself to the 1.5 GHz model as all 1.5s have 64 and vice versa…..

Now install MorphOS and browse the web with Wayfarer to see how useable this toy can still be today

 

[Dronecatcher]

I've got OS 9 booting just fine. A few issues, though, if anybody can help. I can not get any audio out of the AUX. The "Speaker" tab is grayed out and if I adjust the Volume it just snaps back to zero. Secondly, my control strip is in the middle of the display, height-wise. How could I adjust it?

Click and drag holding the option key to move the control strip.

I understand that these forced OS9 installs lose audio on some models - you'll need a USB audio dongle - but if you're true to your LED on a motorbike analogy that won't be allowed

 

[Amethyst1]

The ATA bus can handle a theoretical 133Mb/s (never saw it but hey-ho) but your HDD will only read/write 30-40 Mb/s. A SSD will far exceed what the bus can handle so you’ll definitely see a noticeable improvement in real-world terms.

Even if the difference in raw speed isn't the performance jump you're looking for, having an SSD even on the aging PATA bus gives a giant reduction in latency, which far better affects the perceived 'snappiness' of the operating system and applications than raw speed will. Files will be instantly accessible on an SSD as opposed to having the HDD's heads move back and forth to load the bits.

I’m aware of that and have seen the benefits of an SSD in older systems using slower buses. I didn’t mean to question these benefits but “invite” others who have done the same to corroborate my experience.

Well, we have 10.6 for PPC. The only thing left is backport CoreImage from 10.6.8

Which won’t help if the GPU, such as the mini’s, doesn’t support Core Image.

It's OK. I already have Sorbet Leopard!

…which is still Leopard.

 

[weckart]

I don't think that 800mhz really makes that much difference but this has been full of surprises.

It's actually only 80MHz difference but the compromise is the increased VRAM on the silently upgraded Minis against the non-working audio in Sorbet Leopard, so you'll need an audio dongle, losing one of the two USB ports.

 

[Amethyst1]

I wouldn't be interested in more performance than a spinning hard disk would offer.

If you’re interested in having a speedy spinner, the 2010 Samsung HM160HC and WD WD2500BEVE are the ticket. 5400rpm but still the fastest 2.5” ATA drives out there.
If you want something period-correct, the 2005 Hitachi 7K60 was the first 7200rpm 2.5” ATA drive to hit the shelves. I had one in my G4 mini and it was much better than the stock 4200rpm thing.

 

[SecretSquirrel]

If you’re interested in having a speedy spinner, the 2010 Samsung HM160HC and WD WD2500BEVE are the ticket. 5400rpm but still the fastest 2.5” ATA drives out there.
If you want something period-correct, the 2005 Hitachi 7K60 was the first 7200rpm 2.5” ATA drive to hit the shelves. I had one in my G4 mini and it was much better than the stock 4200rpm thing.

I had both the Samsung and the Hitachi mentioned at different points and can confirm they were both excellent spinners 👍

 

[weckart]

And if you want the most storage and don't want to go the mSATA +adapter route, this is your best bet

Western Digital 320GB WD3200BEVE 5400RPM PATA/IDE/EIDE 2.5" HDD Hard Disk Drive 2001698109004 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Western Digital 320GB WD3200BEVE 5400RPM PATA/IDE/EIDE 2.5" HDD Hard Disk Drive at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.

www.ebay.co.uk

This was the largest capacity IDE 2.5" spinner ever produced. There are still a few sellers left on eBay, mostly from China. Just pick the cheapest one closest to you if that is your priority.

 

[MrCheeto]

Now install MorphOS and browse the web with Wayfarer to see how useable this toy can still be today

You're on the list.

Click and drag holding the option key to move the control strip.

I understand that these forced OS9 installs lose audio on some models - you'll need a USB audio dongle - but if you're true to your LED on a motorbike analogy that won't be allowed

Perfect! I knew it was possible to move the strip but forgot this one simple trick!

Why is USB audio unkosher? They had plenty of adapters in the OS 9 era. Besides, peripherals are not "mods". I don't have to ride my bike on contemporaneous roads to get "the experience".

…which is still Leopard.

It's not Pardus Leopard. Installing Pardus on a PowerPC, IMO, is doing it a disservice. I think many people agree that 10.5 was a hindrance to their system when upgrading from Tiger. 10.5.9 "Sorbet" thoroughly enhances the experience. A car with the spinning hood and doors, jumping hydraulic suspension, and back seat converted into six subwoofers is still a "Civic" but are we really talking about the same thing as a Civic?

non-working audio in Sorbet Leopard

Huh?

If you’re interested in having a speedy spinner, the 2010 Samsung HM160HC and WD WD2500BEVE are the ticket. 5400rpm but still the fastest 2.5” ATA drives out there.

And I'll come back to this post when I'm ready for the upgrade. I won't wait until the drive fails. I'd rather just know it's going to work.

There are still a few sellers left on eBay, mostly from China.

Woah.

Huge thanks, also, to the MacintoshRepository and MacintoshGarden. I'll have to make a donation or just become a paid member, as they're doing for older OS' what I wish would be done for Leopard etc. Store it. Share it. Keep the experience alive.