Add a New "Doom and Gloom" section?

[Brookzy]

Brookzy - you seem to have taken to posting a very thought out expression of a road better traveled. I enjoy a mix of folks from the sage technical to the "I just switched to Mac" folks. None of their language is going to be the same. We might also realize that the powers that be inject their opinions of what is acceptable and by whom. I think that while I would enjoy at times the "thumbs down," it might make people not want to post their thoughts in fear of being humiliated with having their name associated with a large sum of thumbs down.

Variety of debate is one thing, but the "Tim must go", and "Courage" type posts are popping up on every first page it seems. Many are removed but there are just so many.

I specifically addressed the concern you raise in my original post:

It would be anonymous and private (not visible on a per-post basis to any member), avoiding a public humiliation or 'pile on' effect, and preventing the down voted member from feeling abused/targeted/disheartened etc.

Perhaps a better term for it would be a "poor quality" button rather than a down vote. We have a report button for posts that violate the rules, but that isn't appropriate for all of the time wasting spam-like posts because they often aren't specifically contravening a rule.

This comment is negative as well.

I don't think anyone is for a moment suggesting that all negative comments should be somehow filtered or removed - the point is that so many new threads feature pointless "Apple is doomed", "Tim must go" style posts.

I mean, it must be bad when it's becoming a forum in-joke:

 

[pat500000]

Variety of debate is one thing, but the "Tim must go", and "Courage" type posts are popping up on every first page it seems. Many are removed but there are just so many.

I specifically addressed the concern you raise in my original post:

​

Perhaps a better term for it would be a "poor quality" button rather than a down vote. We have a report button for posts that violate the rules, but that isn't appropriate for all of the time wasting spam-like posts because they often aren't specifically contravening a rule.



I don't think anyone is for a moment suggesting that all negative comments should be somehow filtered or removed - the point is that so many new threads feature pointless "Apple is doomed", "Tim must go" style posts.

I mean, it must be bad when it's becoming a forum in-joke:

View attachment 678563

Yeah. They are just venting out.

 

[Weaselboy]

Variety of debate is one thing, but the "Tim must go", and "Courage" type posts are popping up on every first page it seems. Many are removed but there are just so many.

I mentioned this in an earlier, similar thread, but there is a forum rule against "frivolous" posts. I have been reporting posts like those you mentioned (along with "can't innovate my ass") with a note in the mod report explaining why I think these posts are frivolous and should be removed. So far, most of the posts I have reported have been removed by moderators. A handful, I think depending on context, were not removed. I think the more people report these posts the fewer of them we will see over time.

 

[Brookzy]

Yeah. They are just venting out.

I think some of them are being deliberately malicious. They tend to be accounts that are just a day or two old, with fake-looking profile pictures.

 

[Weaselboy]

I think some of them are being deliberately malicious. They tend to be accounts that are just a day or two old, with fake-looking profile pictures.

Agreed. Based on the user name, some of them are clearly just here to troll.

 

[pat500000]

I think some of them are being deliberately malicious. They tend to be accounts that are just a day or two old, with fake-looking profile pictures.

some maybe...but not all.

 

[Cineplex]

I created a merged/mega Tim Cook discussion thread, so people can use that instead of creating new threads about what he's done or how he must go or who should replace him.

I'll start looking over the other types of threads, complaints about Apple's product lines, and Apple corporation itself, to see if those are good candidates for merging and creating a mega thread.

That is a poor idea IMO. I had a poll going and you destroyed it. I don't think it is fair to have all the happy brainwashed Apple user threads go unchallenged, yet anyone that thinks Apple needs to changed and is unhappy with the current administration gets put into a single thread. Sounds like MacRumors wants less forum interaction and in turn less traffic. We don't drink the Apple Kool-Aid with everyone else so we get shoved into the back room. Run the place how you want....but with this mentality I won't waste my time on here. IT's funny....MacRumors treats it users just like Apple treats its customers.

 

[MechaSpanky]

Cineplex,

I think that you are taking things the wrong way. No one is saying that you can't critique, complain about, or suggest that things need to change at Apple. Anyone can do any of those things but it would be more beneficial for everyone if those things were done more tactfully and the arguments were made with reason and logic, not emotion (like anger, hatred, etc). Instead there are just too many overly negative posts that sound more like trolling than anything else. Sure I don't agree with everything that Apple does but it doesn't do any good being super negative about it. My recommendation is if you don't like something, make a good case for your idea or reason and then present it in such a way that is persuasive.

 

[ardchoille50]

Cineplex,

I think that you are taking things the wrong way. No one is saying that you can't critique, complain about, or suggest that things need to change at Apple. Anyone can do any of those things but it would be more beneficial for everyone if those things were done more tactfully and the arguments were made with reason and logic, not emotion (like anger, hatred, etc). Instead there are just too many overly negative posts that sound more like trolling than anything else. Sure I don't agree with everything that Apple does but it doesn't do any good being super negative about it. My recommendation is if you don't like something, make a good case for your idea or reason and then present it in such a way that is persuasive.

I'd like to add that, if the complaint is about an Apple product, the best way to resolve that problem is to take the complaint to the people who can solve the problem, in this case Apple. Complaining here about Apple products wont solve the problem and your message won't be seen by the folks who need to see it.

 

[Cineplex]

I'd like to add that, if the complaint is about an Apple product, the best way to resolve that problem is to take the complaint to the people who can solve the problem, in this case Apple. Complaining here about Apple products wont solve the problem and your message won't be seen by the folks who need to see it.

You are incorrect. Apple has people in the PR department that look around places like this. They look for leaks, complaints, and potential liabilities such as exploding batteries. Apples feedback site is a black hole to help get angry people to stop posting negative opinions on the internet. It's part of the PR control system. Your best place to be heard is place like this. I worked for them aroun 00/01. I know all the tricks.
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Cineplex,

I think that you are taking things the wrong way. No one is saying that you can't critique, complain about, or suggest that things need to change at Apple. Anyone can do any of those things but it would be more beneficial for everyone if those things were done more tactfully and the arguments were made with reason and logic, not emotion (like anger, hatred, etc). Instead there are just too many overly negative posts that sound more like trolling than anything else. Sure I don't agree with everything that Apple does but it doesn't do any good being super negative about it. My recommendation is if you don't like something, make a good case for your idea or reason and then present it in such a way that is persuasive.

You can't take emotion out of Apple discussions. That is impossible. The loathing for Apple is growing everyday. Especially for the old school user base. Before long you will have a lot more of this on your hands. People are slowly realizing Apple is not the company it used to be or the company it tells you it is.

 

[theluggage]

My recommendation is if you don't like something, make a good case for your idea or reason and then present it in such a way that is persuasive.

True - and if someone wants to rebut those negative comments, they should address those arguments, rather than complaining about negativity, accusing the poster of being a Microsoft shill, pointing out their option not to buy the product, saying "works for me" or going on about a "sense of entitlement" (if you've paid a premium price for a product from a company that endlessly congratulates itself about its design genius there's no "sense" about it).

...I'm also seeing a lot of pre-emptive "Stand by for all the negative comments from haters" posts...

Personally, I'm happy to just ignore those along with all the "Fire Tim Cook - Steve Jobs would never have allowed this" nonsense - but anybody who feels motivated to go through reporting posts might want to extend the same courtesy to the trolls on both sides of the bridge.

 

[Cineplex]

True - and if someone wants to rebut those negative comments, they should address those arguments, rather than complaining about negativity, accusing the poster of being a Microsoft shill, pointing out their option not to buy the product, saying "works for me" or going on about a "sense of entitlement" (if you've paid a premium price for a product from a company that endlessly congratulates itself about its design genius there's no "sense" about it).

...I'm also seeing a lot of pre-emptive "Stand by for all the negative comments from haters" posts...

Personally, I'm happy to just ignore those along with all the "Fire Tim Cook - Steve Jobs would never have allowed this" nonsense - but anybody who feels motivated to go through reporting posts might want to extend the same courtesy to the trolls on both sides of the bridge.

That side of the bridge is welcomed with open arms. As long as the post is defending Apple to the death....it will never be taken down. Mac users didn't get called the cult of Mac for nothing. Emotions with Apple have always been extreme on both sides.

But, I agree with your post 100%.

 

[MechaSpanky]

Negative-posters,

I'm not saying that you guys don't have legitimate concerns because I think you do. I just think that you need to think of a better way to present your message. I do agree with many posters concerns about Apple, especially in regards to how they seem like they have abandoned the Mac. What I don't agree with is how many posters here present things, which is overly negative.

I'm not advocating that logic and reason be used only by one side. I think that both sides of any argument should keep their emotions in check. I find it telling that you guys refer to people who are unhappy with Apple as "haters". I do feel that a discussion about Apple can be had without emotions flaring and using a term like "haters" seems to make emotions run high.

In the end you have to use some common sense, this is a Mac centric website so things that favor the Mac and cast the Mac in a positive light would be better viewed than say tons of people saying how much they hate Apple, right? Think about it. You wouldn't go to a Ford website and say how much you hate Ford. That just wouldn't make sense and people would say you are trolling. What would make sense is to go there and point out weaknesses and make suggestions as to how things could be improved. There are many people here who complain just to complain. Instead maybe they should be pointing out weaknesses and then suggesting good ways that those weaknesses can be resolved. I'm sure that some posters do actually do this but many don't and that is the rub. At the end of the day you have to realize that you are not in control of the company and that no matter how much you complain, it isn't going to change. As well, I think you also have to realize that not everyone shares your opinion.

Best of luck,
Mecha

 

[ardchoille50]

You are incorrect. Apple has people in the PR department that look around places like this. They look for leaks, complaints, and potential liabilities such as exploding batteries.

No, they don't. One of the administrators here has previously stated that this is false. The only way Apple could rely on the info herein is to have full access to the forums database, which they do not. Apple would need full access to more than just the text.

What you're doing is making false assumptions in order to justify behavior and that directly contributes to the problem itself. Please stick to the facts.

I'm sorry, but there's no way I'm going to believe you worked for Apple. That claim is made in an attempt to impart authority on someone's statements, and it is made far too often to be believable.

 

[belvdr]

I don't see how it can be proven or not whether anyone from Apple peruses these forums, unless you hear it from Apple directly.

 

[ardchoille50]

I don't see how it can be proven or not whether anyone from Apple peruses these forums, unless you hear it from Apple directly.

I think it is safe to believe the statements of a forums admin. But, that is beside the point. The point is if you have a complaint with Apple take it to Apple. There is no guarantee Apple will ever see they your complaint if it is posted on these forums.

 

[belvdr]

I agree with the latter. Apple needs to hear the complaints for sure.

I am not sure a forum admin could definitively say whether Apple visits this site. There's so many ways to do that anonymously.

 

[ardchoille50]

I agree with the latter. Apple needs to hear the complaints for sure.

I am not sure a forum admin could definitively say whether Apple visits this site. There's so many ways to do that anonymously.

True, there are ways to do that anonymously. But, therein lies the problem.. we don't have any assurance that the grievance will ever be seen by Apple. That assurance can be had if we take the grievance directly to Apple. We cannot be sure that Apple will fix the problem to our liking, but we have the satisfaction of knowing that we've done our best.

 

[Elbon]

I was a long-time daily MacRumors reader, but I recently stopped visiting the site regularly for this very reason. The volume of negative discussion just got to the point where I couldn't enjoy it anymore.

 

[StayPuft]

Let's add a Whining section while you're at it.

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
The thread is getting derailed by bickering, a couple of posts were removed to keep it on track.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I think that part of the challenge from a management - or mod - perspective might be how one can differentiate between the genuine complaints, or concerns, of some customers, and supplying a space where some posters can vent - or let off steam - safely (the auto spell suggested 'sadly' for some inexplicable reason).

 

[phrehdd]

I think that part of the challenge from a management perspective might be how one can differentiate between the genuine complaints, or concerns, of some customers, and supplying a space where some posters can vent - or let off steam - safely (the auto spell suggested 'sadly' for some inexplicable reason).

Agreed. I would write a bit more but I am on the Saint Nic Moderator "naughty list."

 

[maflynn]

we don't have any assurance that the grievance will ever be seen by Apple

Many times, people are posting opinions of what they think of an apple product, direction of Apple or how Tim Cook is handling Apple. If I may be so bold and say, many of the people posting issues, are not looking to engage apple but rather communicate their opinion. There are definitely circumstances where a person is better off calling, emailing, or using Apple's feedback system, but there are other times where they want to have a discussion on a topic, i.e., Tim Cook is good/bad/ok CEO.

 

[ardchoille50]

Many times, people are posting opinions of what they think of an apple product, direction of Apple or how Tim Cook is handling Apple. If I may be so bold and say, many of the people posting issues, are not looking to engage apple but rather communicate their opinion. There are definitely circumstances where a person is better off calling, emailing, or using Apple's feedback system, but there are other times where they want to have a discussion on a topic, i.e., Tim Cook is good/bad/ok CEO.

I agree, debate, discussion and complaining are often very different things. Perhaps it would help if people would more often consider the impact their actions will have on others. I believe that would alleviate much of the problem.

Those people who are habitual complainers.. I wonder how long they've served as a CEO, or how well their corporation is doing.