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I agree, debate, discussion and complaining are often very different things. Perhaps it would help if people would more often consider the impact their actions will have on others. I believe that would alleviate much of the problem.

Those people who are habitual complainers.. I wonder how long they've served as a CEO, or how well their corporation is doing.

Those that can't be CEO, habitually complain. I guess that's how the adage goes. </sarc> </grin>

We are here in a threat about doom and gloom. I certainly can see people come in to such a discussion with the need to say they are unhappy and the why of it all. I can see some people offering their views on technology and how Apple is moving forward or not and some folks might pick more colourful language while others prefer a dryer style of writing and all along, we have those that will judge inconsistently if we are following the netiquette supposedly required when we opt to express our PoV or refute another person's. Candidly, I see room for all of these types of comments and people. I cannot say what is within reason as that is subjective but we could have one person upset about a product, only to be answered by another who was able to explain that what upset them has an easy fix or they have a misunderstanding, we could have a "pro" who is heavily invested in Apple yet find the latest offerings not meeting the need and feels frustration because the cost to leave is painful to the pocketbook etc. Of course this is all about a subheadings under why Apple may lose some of its customer base.

So, to have some fun and cheer up the gloom and doom - let's think out of the box for a moment. Apple doesn't have to rely as much on the long term fan base of Mac computer yore. In fact, they may be considered these folks a liability. For a moment consider that the long term fan / customer of Apple computers is a bit savvy on what Apple has done and can do which doesn't exactly match what is going on today. Imagine also the relatively new Apple customer that is not aware of Apple's past fully nor experienced it. The latter group is most likely the larger group and growing. They are for all purposes Apple's target. This means that the long term user will be negative about Apple's new direction and offerings and be counter productive to Apple if they try to continue to offer them some dangled carrots. Ultimately, Apple is better off without that group of customers who (like me) find plenty of reason to complain, file protest and come to forums like this to share thoughts and read what is going on with others with Apple products. So in short, Apple would possibly like us all to go away and shut up so they can get on with their new company name, their new product lines, their major urge for thin (form over function to the extreme) and so forth. Okay, maybe some of us will fairly soon oblige Apple as we are not going to get amnesia any time soon.
 
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Complaining about a multi billion corporation and their leadership is not comparable to online harassment.
But I do agree, we should have a subforum for these discussions.
Including AppleCare, Apple Store experience, Hardware failures, discoloured screens, etc.
 
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Complaining about a multi billion corporation and their leadership is not comparable to online harassment.
But I do agree, we should have a subforum for these discussions.
Including AppleCare, Apple Store experience, Hardware failures, discoloured screens, etc.
I feel this is an excellent idea. This would allow people to complain all they want and still allow people like me, who are tired of the complains, to put such a sub forum on our ignore list where we would never see it.

I feel that software issues should not be included, however, since we can actually help with those issues.. so it's not a waste of time to have software-related threads.
 
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Including AppleCare, Apple Store experience, Hardware failures, discoloured screens, etc.
So what threads would go in the MacBook Pro forum, if you remove applecare, apple store and hardware issues from that forum? Seems to me that majority of the discussions will be removed.
 
This thread is getting ridiculous in my opinion. It sounds like people are asking for two versions of MacRumors:

iloveapple.macrumors.com (only happy people that can't fathom Apple does any wrong.)
ihateapple.macrumors.com (people who see the flaws and are upset with Apple)

It makes no sense. People want to discuss issues, and that includes praise and complaints. You can't just shove all the unhappy people in a corner because it hurts your utopian views and ideas of Apple.

Sub forums are also a HORRIBLE idea. What a way to destroy the forums discussions. Users will be really excited when nobody sees their threads. I am sure the moderators will love constantly moving around misfiled threads. It is not a good idea at all.

Things are fine the way they are. I hate reading what I consider "fanboy" comments. But it isn't such an inconvenience that I am going to start a coalition to rid the world of them. I'm sorry that you don't like negative Apple comments....but not everyone agrees with you. It would be a pretty crappy forum if there was only one viewpoint expressed. MacRumors isn't an Apple super fanboy club...its an Apple discussion forum to discuss Apple....that includes fanboys, Apple haters, and the general public. You can't cleanse the world of people unhappy with Apple. So just get over it and move on with life.
 
This thread is getting ridiculous in my opinion. It sounds like people are asking for two versions of MacRumors:

iloveapple.macrumors.com (only happy people that can't fathom Apple does any wrong.)
ihateapple.macrumors.com (people who see the flaws and are upset with Apple)

It makes no sense. People want to discuss issues, and that includes praise and complaints. You can't just shove all the unhappy people in a corner because it hurts your utopian views and ideas of Apple.

Sub forums are also a HORRIBLE idea. What a way to destroy the forums discussions. Users will be really excited when nobody sees their threads. I am sure the moderators will love constantly moving around misfiled threads. It is not a good idea at all.

Things are fine the way they are. I hate reading what I consider "fanboy" comments. But it isn't such an inconvenience that I am going to start a coalition to rid the world of them. I'm sorry that you don't like negative Apple comments....but not everyone agrees with you. It would be a pretty crappy forum if there was only one viewpoint expressed. MacRumors isn't an Apple super fanboy club...its an Apple discussion forum to discuss Apple....that includes fanboys, Apple haters, and the general public. You can't cleanse the world of people unhappy with Apple. So just get over it and move on with life.

I'm sorry but your post "triggered" me ... j/k. I agree pretty much with your entire take. Perhaps we need just one additional area and it is not for more intense and harsher comments but the "iSnowflake" section for those who just want the warm and fuzzies which is for some, a nice way to enjoy their Apple items and have positive echoes here. As for me, I like good dynamics where people share ideas, opinions, provide food for thought, some sly writing and style, humour, as well as some really good help provided by readers to other readers with some problems. Every once in awhile we see an old fashion help/support thread going on that reminds me there are adults in the room. Then again a break with some bawdy talk is a nice break too.
 
From reading through this thread, I think it can be safely said that what people really want is a well thought out discussion regardless of the "side" a person is on. I'm not so a sure doom-n-gloom subthread would funnel the less well thought out responses from the rest of the site, as nice as that would be. I made the point in another thread here that the internet is fueled by bitterness, resentment and nostalgia. Those things definitely drive clicks and this drives the current revenue model of sites such as Mac Rumors. And then the bitterness, resentment and nostalgia start to drive the "Apple is doomed" headlines (or whatever the topic is about). A fairly vicious circle. I've been using Apple News a lot lately and I've noticed how widely the same "Apple is Doomed" topics get propagated - but they drive clicks and clicks mean $, whether the articles themselves have any "fact checking" (apparently an evil phrase these days in our post fact world).

The best approach is to think before you write. The more we all do that, the lower the noise level, I think. Whether you feel Apple is doing OK or you think they're not doing enough to move the ball forward or have made serious missteps, if we engage using something other than our brain stems, the discourse is far more effective. With the current setup of the site and the nature of the beast, I don't see a way to reduce the level of noise other than to overwhelm it with quality :).
 
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Perhaps a forum called

Making Applesauce

It would be a spew and vent forum (almost anything goes) about Apple, Apple products, Apple Business model with respect to disdain, frustration etc. If an intelligent moderator feels a subset is worthy, it may be moved to the general population with a notification plus a reminder that in the general population, we can't speak freely but may still have a conversation.
 
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Separating positive and negative comments into sections would make real discussion impossible, and encouraging negativity by giving it a dedicated forum sounds like a slippery slope. Any good debate is made up of varying viewpoints.

Not all users will like all viewpoints, or even each other - but that's to be expected on such a large site.
 
One man's debate is another man's complaint......macrumors should not get into the business of deciding for its users....this will inevitably turn into an even scarier dogfight about censure.

verb
ˈmädəˌrāt/
  1. make or become less extreme, intense, rigorous, or violent.
 
One man's debate is another man's complaint......macrumors should not get into the business of deciding for its users....this will inevitably turn into an even scarier dogfight about censure.

verb
ˈmädəˌrāt/
  1. make or become less extreme, intense, rigorous, or violent.
To be fair, it's generally the second (or third) verb meaning that would be the more applicable one as far as how it relates to what we have here.
 
Or better yet, can we add a section under the "Doom and Gloom" that says I am leaving Apple, or Breaking Up With Apple, or Apple has lost it way and I am leaving them. Good lord. There seems to be inordinate amount of these posts popping up all over the forum.
 
Or better yet, can we add a section under the "Doom and Gloom" that says I am leaving Apple, or Breaking Up With Apple, or Apple has lost it way and I am leaving them. Good lord. There seems to be inordinate amount of these posts popping up all over the forum.
That should be named the "I worshipped Apple and they refused to reward me for it so I'm leaving them as a form of revenge" section.
 
That should be named the "I worshipped Apple and they refused to reward me for it so I'm leaving them as a form of revenge" section.

Ha. Or they are stagnate because they haven't released anything that is "cool" or forward thinking. I am now leaving and there is nothing you can say or do to keep me, but I will continue to post in the thread even after I have said I am leaving, just to stir the pot that much more!
 
Ha. Or they are stagnate because they haven't released anything that is "cool" or forward thinking. I am now leaving and there is nothing you can say or do to keep me, but I will continue to post in the thread even after I have said I am leaving, just to stir the pot that much more!

I think of all this somewhat like the topic forums in the days of BBS's. You can have sub forums that cover more specific things and then general rant areas. Its all good to me its all days of Pompeii.
 
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