AdMob Chief Responds to Apple's New Developer Terms for Analytics Data Collection

[Rot'nApple]

AdMob founder and CEO Omar Hamoui today on the company's blog, acknowledging that the terms as written would prohibit developers from using AdMob and Google advertising products on the iPhone.

Just curious, it was reported to the effect that Google "swept-in" and bought AdMob right out from under Apple's negotiations.

If true, certainly the founder and CEO would have been aware of the negotiations between his company and Apple. If he is that quick on the draw with regards to dropping out of negotiations in favor of another, it certainly seems that AdMob wasn't so concerned about that "change threatens to decrease - or even eliminate - revenue that helps to support tens of thousands of developers. The terms hurt both large and small developers by severely limiting their choice of how best to make money. And because advertising funds a huge number of free and low cost apps, these terms are bad for consumers as well." with regards to Apple's iPhone customers and developers. Am I wrong?!

 

[thibaulthalpern]

Wall Street Journal. Old news:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703648304575212411500983040.html

Thanks for the link. I wonder what the actual prices are. These are all projections.

 

[splashman]

Well that was an intelligent and well considered response. Did my criticism of Apple somehow upset you? Because as far as I know, it wasn't aimed at you... Unless you're Steve Jobs, of course!

Aimed at Apple, but published here? I do not think the word "aim" means what you think it means.

Tell you what, slugger: You post something that is intelligent and well-considered, and I'll consider an intelligent response. All you've posted today is juvenile, petulant nonsense.

 

[IlluminatedSage]

so what does this mean?

Apple is getting tired of Google attacking it on all fronts. and frankly, i don't blame em. Google is hellbent on disruption of many different businesses. including shortly music to compete with iTunes.

so... why should apple play nice with them? i wouldn't

 

[Azurael]

Aimed at Apple, but published here? I do not think the word "aim" means what you think it means.

Tell you what, slugger: You post something that is intelligent and well-considered, and I'll consider an intelligent response. All you've posted today is juvenile, petulant nonsense.

I don't really want to get involved with a flame war with an Apple zealot, but please tell me what's wrong with wanting them to behave like decent, honest people?

Yes, okay, it's hypothetical. I'll forward it in an email to His Steveness if it would make you happy, but I don't honestly expect to achieve anything.

 

[danielo2]

In the many fights Steve is picking this is a easy one to pick :

1) he just jumped into the ads space for mobile and can return all of the money to the developers. adMob can scream all they want but their masters make their money by ads Apple doesn't and from what was told at D8 apple could and probably will run this as a zero profit unit to fuel their developers and create trouble for google. Apple will and can return more of the money back to the developers just as they did with the applications.

2) if admob or google complains apple just has to play the privacy card, like it or not google runs on the information we share to them and most people don't understand how thats harvested and what the effects are.

Not saying all the things Apple does are great but google's story and how it gains its money is open for attacks and the spin story Apple can provide aint a bad one. Google is already getting into more and more problems over their haversting of our data and this could add fuel to the fire.

Why again should i allow applications to send private data to someone i have NO contract with without it first asking me ?

Daniel.

 

[optophobia]

Dear Apple.

In the last few years, you have proven yourself to be a right bunch of arsewipes.

Instead of welcoming competition, and the innovation it brings, you have tried to make everything as awkward as possible for any and all competitors when they have made no such moves against you. You harass anybody who has even remotely similar technology to yours, even if (for the most part) they had it first, like HTC. Rather than allowing people to customise their hardware, you tell them exactly how they should be set up, exactly what software they can and cannot run, and your CEO's outbursts badmouthing other Silicon Valley companies get more and more ridiculous each day. All signs of the real, revolutionary innovation you are capable of have dried up since the original iPhone was released in 2007. More than anything else, I hate the fact that you believe that because you say something, it is gospel.

You may make the best (and certainly amongst the most durable) hardware, and some of the best software on the market. I have been using Apple products since it became unfeasible to keep my Amiga running in the early 90s. I loved my Performa 630, I loved my PowerBook 1400, I loved my Wallstreet, I loved my iceBook, I loved my PowerBook G4 12" (Best machine you ever made?!), my second PowerBook G4 12", my 15" AlBook, my Mac Mini and I still love my MacBook. I love Mac OS. I loved all my iPods I even love iOS once it's jailbroken and I can do what _I_ want with it. However, unless your attitude towards business, fair competition and your customers changes dramatically, I'll be boycotting your products along with Sony's for the foreseeable future.

Peace. (by the way, if I were Google now, I would be very rapidly revoking Apple's search licensing. Two can play at this game, and without Google, Apple would definitely be in the mire. I don't think they appreciate that, but have you tried using Bing?!)

What rock have you been under ?

 

[in one ear]

+1

It's a waste spouting that here, brother. The shortsightedness found on these boards is nothing short of astounding. That's why there are very few pre-2008 users who are still active. At this point, I'm still amused there are so many people here who think SJ is the second coming of Christ. How many people would lie down in a muddy puddle so SJ wouldn't get his shoes dirty? Too many.

why do you hang around here then ? all you ever do is moan .. go and join your pre-2008 club and give everyone else here a break.

 

[gwangung]

I don't really want to get involved with a flame war with an Apple zealot, but please tell me what's wrong with wanting them to behave like decent, honest people?

Well, the problem is that it's not really clear who the decent, honest people are. Seriously, it's not that open and shut.

 

[gdbleb]

Looks like we need to learn a lot more about this.

I don't trust Google because they "accidentally" collected all of that wifi traffic while doing Street View.
I listen to Steve Jobs complain about Flurry's data collection and I know now that they must be doing the same to me.
What has AdMob been collecting on me and sending to Google?
I don't trust any developer to truly abide by Apple's privacy agreement.
Looks like Apple cannot enforce the privacy agreement at runtime.

Looks like we need Little Snitch for iOS. Good idea but a PITA.
Looks like we need ACLS for Apps on iOS. PITA.

The pitch at WWDC for iAD was increased revenue for the developer.
Increased value to the advertiser is more (and more and more) information about the customer. This places the privacy of the iOS device owner in direct conflict with the iOS app developer who is going to be tempted to violate Apple's privacy agreement.

We'll see how this plays out.

But I'm sure Android has this all covered already - right?

 

[jacobj]

Google sees this as blocking access to a platform and as such it is not normal within the industry. However I see it that apple views the iPhone in much the same way as google sees its web search: it is their product, their communication portal to the user.

When google standardises their search to HTML 5 and allows others to develop a way of building their own advertising engines into it, then we have an open world. Of course google will never do it because it would be commercial suicide. The fact that apple has opened up their portal at all is remarkable.

Before people argue that google has left open android, let us remember that were they to have made it a closed system, phone manufacturers would not have turned to it so willingly. Google's model of being a software only company has weakened their hand and HTC's model as hardware only has made their presence in an advertising world irrelavent. Apple has taken its age old position of being both and used it to its advantage: SJ cansay to himself that he was right. Good on him.

 

[some12b]

Google/ Apple love-hate aside, is anyone worried about the increasing prospect of a massive anti-trust law suit coming Apple's way?

Apple's way of integrating iAd could be seen along ther same line as MS putting IE at the core of it's OS. MS is open to third-party browsers too, but still got done for it.

 

[Criscoso]

Hahahahahahaha!

Hahahahahahaha!
This is amazing, Apple is overprotecting its platform in a new level of craziness.

No flash, no multi-platform dev, arbitrary elimination of apps, and now that!?
All those things are against developers, the base of any platform.
Developers, companies, people, families, depending on Apple wishes or with which feet Steve Jobs is waking up today.

Developers are eating this **** because there is no real alternative platform, but this wont be forever (Android is coming near!!).

Apple is totally done.
God bless Steve Jobs, he is digging his own tomb.

 

[MacDawg75]

No; competition is two companies striving to release products/services that outdo eachother, hence driving innovation and price and making things better for consumers.

All Apple are trying to do is totally stifle all of their competitors with injunctions, which doesn't help anybody except them.

Hmmm, must have woken up on the clueless side of the bed this morning. Apple and Google are competing...and Apple is leading in releasing products that not only are more innovative than Google...but RIM, Nokia, and MS as well.

AdMob's response is about releasing ad analytics. What Google wants is the ad revenue off of iPhones and iPads...it's not competition...it's ad money which is what drives their revenue stream. Wonder what AdMob's leadership is thinking now about taking the quick route to million$ and losing the war. Wonder how long before MS, Nokia, and others take the same route Apple is taking.

And injunctions....pleeeeeez. That is such a tired, wornout piece of FUD...please, innovate and come up with something new.

 

[blizaine]

our ads are better. it's no big deal.

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

 

[gwangung]

Google/ Apple love-hate aside, is anyone worried about the increasing prospect of a massive anti-trust law suit coming Apple's way?

Apple's way of integrating iAd could be seen along ther same line as MS putting IE at the core of it's OS. MS is open to third-party browsers too, but still got done for it.

I'd have to do some more reading on anti-trust law, and listen to some actual lawyers.

The legal "thinking" on this site is close to useless.

 

[kevinof]

To me this is plain old protectionism - plain and simple. Apple have their ad platform and want to cut out the competition by changing the t&c's. Are Apple also going to abide by the same rules - ie iAds can't collect analytics also.

Take this to the desktop and say Apple stopped any ad coming through on the browser ,that wasn't from their ad service, from showing to the user. How long would it take the DOJ to step in?

I think Apple have gone to far.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Google/ Apple love-hate aside, is anyone worried about the increasing prospect of a massive anti-trust law suit coming Apple's way?

No because people tout how Apple makes more money than anyone, has more cash, has this and that... but when the word anti trust comes up act like they are a mom and pop store.

Apple's secrecy is going to hurt it.

 

[muskratboy]

this doesn't stifle anything.

it just means there is now a bigger market for independent marketing analytics companies.

so now you need a 3rd party to gather your analytics. that doesn't sound like the end of the world to me.

i'm off to incorporate as an independent mobile ad analytics company! first sales call... google.

but then, half the geniuses out there think iAd means there will be ads all over every app, and all over the OS. these people are idiots.

All apple is protecting is data, not ad revenue. get a 3rd party to handle your numbers and everything is fine.

man people freak out about weird things.

 

[madmaxmedia]

2) if admob or google complains apple just has to play the privacy card, like it or not google runs on the information we share to them and most people don't understand how thats harvested and what the effects are.

...

Why again should i allow applications to send private data to someone i have NO contract with without it first asking me ?

Daniel.

Wrong.

Apple is not prohibiting analytics at all, it's only preventing companies that have competing mobile platforms from collecting analytics. This has nothing to do with protecting the public (besides iAds collect that information for advertisers too), and everything to do with competition between Apple and other companies.

I haven't completely formed a conclusion on this myself. My immediate response was that this was another anti-competitive practice that further closes off Apple's iOS platform, another sign that 'Think Different' is dead. OTOH it makes business sense to prevent competing mobile companies from collecting information that could help them compete against Apple's iOS and iAds.

I guess my conclusion is that this is not necessarily a dirty or anti-competitive action, just not one that I would expect to see from a company that pronounces itself to be at the "Intersection of Technology and Liberal Arts." I think they are more or less actually at the "Intersection of Technology and Making a Buck," which is of course what corporations exist to do.

Though it may be naive, once in awhile I would like to see a company of Apple's size, stature, and success to really, truly live up to their mission statement and PR.

 

[rish]

Is this a Convention

+1

It's a waste spouting that here, brother. The shortsightedness found on these boards is nothing short of astounding. That's why there are very few pre-2008 users who are still active. At this point, I'm still amused there are so many people here who think SJ is the second coming of Christ. How many people would lie down in a muddy puddle so SJ wouldn't get his shoes dirty? Too many.

For Knuckleheads. What a naff statement. I mean reread what you're agreeing to and at least demonstrate the points you're agreeing to and provide your own wisdom on the matter.

Think before you consider spouting yourself.

 

[Criscoso]

...
Looks like we need Little Snitch for iOS. Good idea but a PITA.
Looks like we need ACLS for Apps on iOS. PITA.
...

Sorry, what is PITA?

 

[Poll Smoker]

..boycotts have proven the only ones they hurt are the boycotters.

They don't have history books where you're from?

 

[Peace]

The car theme.

Does anybody think it would be ok for GM to know everything about the Ford Focus ? All the tech behind it. WHO drives them. Where they drive to and what they buy ?

No.

 

[robbyx]

Like Apple cares. Apple has spent the better part of the past 10 years building a very strong, vertically-integrated mobile platform. Nowhere does it say that such a platform must be open to anyone and everyone. Nowhere does it say that such a platform needs to allow for endless user "customization" (read as: nerds with no life playing with their toys until 4am). If you don't like it, buy Android. Buy Nokia. Buy Windows Mobile, or whatever they're calling it. You have plenty of choices.

Do you really want the iOS platform to be another Windows, with all of the incompatibilities and problems associated with trying to ensure a quality user experience across all sorts of random hardware? What makes you (and these big tech giants) so entitled? Apple isn't strong-arming anyone. Apple isn't telling company X that you can't have an operating system license unless you do this, that, and the other.

Apple is simply building a walled garden, one that hundreds of million of people appreciate for its simplicity, elegance, and stability. I'm so sick of whiny nerds who think they have some right to tear down the garden wall just because. Well, I've got news for you. The rest of Apple's customers, you know, the other 99%, don't want that. We like the fact that our devices just work. If you want a more "open" (read: chaotic, uncontrolled) platform, go Android. Customize away. Download all kinds of apps from all kinds of sources with no guarantee that what you downloaded isn't a trojan or spyware. But just because YOU want this, don't assume that the rest of us do.

And suggesting that Apple's "revolutionary innovation" has dried up since 2007 is just stupid. Yeah, everyone is trying to catch Apple, trying to copy Apple, trying to out-Apple Apple, and you say they can't innovate. Why don't you go troll somewhere else? You obviously have nothing of value to add to this conversation.

Dear Apple.

In the last few years, you have proven yourself to be a right bunch of arsewipes.

Instead of welcoming competition, and the innovation it brings, you have tried to make everything as awkward as possible for any and all competitors when they have made no such moves against you. You harass anybody who has even remotely similar technology to yours, even if (for the most part) they had it first, like HTC. Rather than allowing people to customise their hardware, you tell them exactly how they should be set up, exactly what software they can and cannot run, and your CEO's outbursts badmouthing other Silicon Valley companies get more and more ridiculous each day. All signs of the real, revolutionary innovation you are capable of have dried up since the original iPhone was released in 2007. More than anything else, I hate the fact that you believe that because you say something, it is gospel.

You may make the best (and certainly amongst the most durable) hardware, and some of the best software on the market. I have been using Apple products since it became unfeasible to keep my Amiga running in the early 90s. I loved my Performa 630, my PowerMac 5400, my PowerBook 1400, my Wallstreet, my iceBook, my iceBook G4, my PowerBook G4 12" (Best machine you ever made?!), my second PowerBook G4 12", my 15" AlBook, my Mac Mini and I still love my MacBook. I love Mac OS. I loved all my iPods I even love iOS once it's jailbroken and I can do what _I_ want with it. However, unless your attitude towards business, fair competition and your customers changes dramatically, I'll be boycotting your products along with Sony's for the foreseeable future.

Peace. (by the way, if I were Google now, I would be very rapidly revoking Apple's search licensing. Yes, it would cut one of their revenue streams, but two can play at this game, and without Google, Apple would definitely be in the mire. I don't think they appreciate that, but have you tried using Bing?!)