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The only reason Flash seems like a resource hog is because we're running it on a Mac. My octo-core Mac Pro with 18 gigs of RAM can't handle even the simplest flash games......... Meanwhile my 5 year old HP laptop, running Windows XP does just fine.

This tells me that it's Apple that is lazy and unwilling to fix problems on their end which cause Flash to crash systems.

How can you take the one thing that runs poorly and say its Apple's fault? APple didn't write flash. Flash is equally bad on Safari, Firefox, and Chrome. Flash on Windows is great. Flash on Windows was great before h264 and buggy on Mac.

It all sounds pretty obvious the issue is with Adobe's flash. Not with Apple.

——————————————————————

As a side note, everyone here who thinks simply putting Flash on an iPad/iPhone is as simple as "allowing" simply doesn't get it. Look at the JooJoo - an "iPad killer" with Flash support. What's the verdict? It sucks because its so slow and unusable.

The only places I've seen Flash run well on a mobile device was Flash Lite, which doesn't even run most of the Flash sites out there. Yet people equate that with Apple lying that Flash is bad.

The amount of ignorance and disinformation from the people who want Flash is staggering here.
 
Supporting a competitor won't help them (but even if they try, 10.1 for Android is late and testers so far say it's still a resource hog. Not to mention that it's limited and isn't a full Flash implementation, anyway.) And there's the fact that other platforms (can you say Windows Mobile 7) don't support it, either.. If developers have to write a different version for mobile 10.1 apps, they might as well write a proper html version.



Based on what? I wish people would stop making inane comments based on nothing more than their own delusions. And don't try 'antitrust'. It doesn't apply because Apple doesn't have a monopoly.



That's possible. If they wrote a decent version of Flash, Apple would undoubtedly consider it - even though it would still violate the SDK terms.



Why don't you tell us what part of the Flash code was written by Apple? Flash is allowed on Macs - and it sucks badly. That's Adobe's fault, not Apple's. I have a Core 2 Duo 2.3 GHz, 4 GB MacBook Pro. Flash shoots the CPU to over 100% - and the fans come on within seconds. If it takes that much CPU power, how in the world do you expect an iPhone to handle it?



If Flash blows, why would you want to see it continued? Apple is pushing for good quality apps - it seems to me that you should be supporting that if you think Flash stinks.

As for making CS5 the last version for Macs, that would be an insanely stupid thing to do. Half of their revenues on most apps comes from Macs. Not to mention that it would simply encourage Apple to write their own pro image editing app - which would undoubtedly be better than Photoshop.



Well, CPU usage, security (one of the biggest security holes out there), performance, stability (top source of crashes on Macs according to Apple - and my experience supports this). Other than that, it's great.



That would be insanely stupid. If Apple allowed Flash, then lazy developers would simply continue to use it. HTML 5 would never be adopted. PLUS, every time a Flash app caused your phone to slow to a crawl, drained the battery or caused a crash, users would blame Apple, not Adobe.



Maybe you should read both sides of the story before passing judgment. The other side is that this type of environment was never allowed in the SDK and Adobe thought they could work around Apple's rules. Apple simply clarified the rules that have always been there.

How about reading what a Flash developer has to say:
http://www.bit-101.com/blog/?p=2410&cpage=2#comment-509066



Oh, yeah. No one is ever going to develop for the App Store. Those 185,000 applications all wrote themselves.

Android has some potential - they added something like 15,000 apps in the first part of this year. Unfortunately, Apple added 85,000 in the same time period. AND that's even after Apple threw out about 20,000 junk applications (many of which are now on the Android store).



At least SOME of the problem is with the Mac client (although there are plenty of Flash performance and security problems on Windows, as well). But even if what you say is true, who wrote the Mac Flash plugin? Do you think Apple wrote even a single line of code? As for restrictions, that's nonsense. Adobe has access to the same APIs that everyone else has. Other applications work just fine on Macs. Heck, even Microsoft is now writing decent (still not great, but decent) Mac software. Why is it Apple's fault that Adobe can't be bothered?



Not according to Apple's public statements. It's about performance, security, and stability. And, in the case of the Flash to iPhone compiler, ability to support Apple's new features.



And that's really the bottom line. Flash serves not useful purpose that isn't served better by an open standard which doesn't bring your computer to a screeching halt or infect your system with malware.





BS. Specifically which APIs does everyone else have that Adobe doesn't? There are plenty of other apps that work just fine on Macs. What makes you think Adobe is the only one who doesn't have access to Apple's APIs?

And why should Apple be forced to fix Adobe's worthless code? Adobe has had years to fix it and has done nothing. The writing was on the wall 3 years ago with the introduction of the iPhone - yet Flash doesn't run one whit better today than it did then. Why is it Apple's fault that Adobe has simply ignored the problem for years?



Seems to me that you're more interested in making thing up than dealing with facts.

iTunes uses 11% of one CPU on my Mac. Flash uses 115% - even when it's not doing anything but displaying a page with some Flash menus.



And 50% of Adobe's sales of key products.



No, Apple's intent is clearly to provide an efficient, reliable, secure system - all of which are inconsistent with using Flash.



It is something of a de facto standard on destkops and laptops - but Apple has done nothing to block it there.

It is NOT a standard of any type (open OR de facto) on mobile devices. In fact, there is still not a full Flash implementation running on ANY mobile device that I know of. Even Flash 10.1 (which isn't out and still has performance problems) won't support your argument both because it only runs on Android and because it is a limited subset of the Flash 'standard'.

Far better to drop it know and go to an accepted standard that works on all platforms.

zzzzzzzzzzz
 
Everyone should read this

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ps_in_iphone_4_0_related_to_multitasking.html

Not saying this is legit since it didn't come from Apple but maybe attacks and other "Screw you Apple" comments should wait till, I don't know, more than one day has passed and the truth about why OS 4 and the "conditions" set for OS 4 are they way they are.

If the above reason is valid, I wonder how many would apologize or take those "Screw you Apple" comments back.

Cool article!

I am not dev so I can't say if statements in that article make sense but thinking logically they do...

Perhaps it really has to do with with certain new features under OS4 (like multi-tasking) rather than killing the Flash or Unity or whatnot...

We will soon find out anyway :)
 
Adobe is an awesome company but...

Some of you people really make me sick. Adobe is a huge honest company that employs thousands of people all over the world. Sure maybe they make mistakes and make some pretty bad software but they have never tried to dupe anybody or steal money from anybody. Some of you talk about Adobe as if they were Enron just because you happen to not like one of their products. Grow up.

Some of you would rather have the economy dive into another recession with the amount of people that could be laid off if Adobe went under. I'm not just talking Adobe employs but the ripple effect it will have in the entire design industry. There are tens of thousands of Flash designers alone that will be out of a job. Not to mention the amount of local jobs around Adobe that the current Adobe employs use every day such as food and gas.

Instead of shooting off your mouths think about what you are wishing for and hope Karma doesn't deliver the same right back you.

How sick and twisted are some of you to want to see that many people loose their jobs just so you can get your rocks off on a BS company feud?

I thought Apple users were supposed to be so liberal and open minded. Wishing the loss of well over 100,00 jobs doesn't sound very open minded to me. If you don't like Adobe you don't have to use them. Nobody forces anybody to use Adobe software. It's not like it is an OS or anything that you have to use.

I love Apple computers but I'm getting so sick and tired of all the hatred in the world. PC forums have morons bashing Apple and Mac forums have morons bashing PC and pretty much everybody else. Whatever happened to people just enjoying the tools they have and not being bothered with the tools they have no need for. How they heck did computers become like Politics where the masses become polarized?

This is so much bull! You are obviously NOT a designer or at least not a very good one. I own a production company and I can tell you that all of the people working for me, including myself, are always learning the newest and best technology to add to our skill sets. Any designer who ends up without a job because he's still using yesterday's technology is an idiot and it would be his own fault for not keeping up with the trends in his field that keep him employable and/or marketable.

With that said, I do agree that bashing Adobe is just plain stupid. I personally don't like Flash but Adobe does make a lot of awesome software, Photoshop, Illustrator (although I wish they's merge these two into one), After Effects, Lightroom to name a few and I think they are an awesome company. They just need to cut their loses on a dying technology and look toward the future instead trying to make everyone else live in the past. Flash is dead!
 
I am aware that these APIs are not available to others, but how about Adobe's public plea to allow Apple to work with it to provide an excellent experience on the Mac. I am sure Adobe would even let Apple oversee the whole project. Jobs will not allow this as long as he's at Apple.

Because those APIs won't do squat to help Flash. This was a wonderful PR campaign by Adobe - no more or less. Flash was crap before h264 and its crap after. Yes on Windows it uses h264 and that helped it play high def video, but that's about it. What's the excuse for all the other poorly playing flash stuff?

Stop drinking Adobe's koolaid. Its not Jobs vs Adobe. Its Jobs sick and tired of Adobe treating the Mac as a second-class citizen and finally doing something about it.
 
Good. I'll be glad when flash is gone. But then I gotta see how to keep ads blocked on sites...
 
There better be Adobe CS5 for mac.. Otherwise I'm back to a PC..

I will admit, CS5 is pretty cool. Even a non-pro can make images look great in no time with its new killer feature (content-aware fill.)

Adobe won't cut development for Macs. In fact, we're getting to the point where they'll have no choice but to continue to support it, AND very likely develop an iPad version down the line, which would be interesting. It's certainly possible.


Adobe seems to be really angry, ahaha http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888

I guess it's time for Adobe to learn how to promote their product if they think it's so wonderful . . .
 
Some of you people really make me sick. Adobe is a huge honest company that employs thousands of people all over the world. Sure maybe they make mistakes and make some pretty bad software but they have never tried to dupe anybody or steal money from anybody. Some of you talk about Adobe as if they were Enron just because you happen to not like one of their products. Grow up.

Some of you would rather have the economy dive into another recession with the amount of people that could be laid off if Adobe went under. I'm not just talking Adobe employs but the ripple effect it will have in the entire design industry. There are tens of thousands of Flash designers alone that will be out of a job. Not to mention the amount of local jobs around Adobe that the current Adobe employs use every day such as food and gas.

Instead of shooting off your mouths think about what you are wishing for and hope Karma doesn't deliver the same right back you.

How sick and twisted are some of you to want to see that many people loose their jobs just so you can get your rocks off on a BS company feud?

I thought Apple users were supposed to be so liberal and open minded. Wishing the loss of well over 100,00 jobs doesn't sound very open minded to me. If you don't like Adobe you don't have to use them. Nobody forces anybody to use Adobe software. It's not like it is an OS or anything that you have to use.

I love Apple computers but I'm getting so sick and tired of all the hatred in the world. PC forums have morons bashing Apple and Mac forums have morons bashing PC and pretty much everybody else. Whatever happened to people just enjoying the tools they have and not being bothered with the tools they have no need for. How they heck did computers become like Politics where the masses become polarized?

This is the best thing in this thread! I agree times a million!!
 
Adobe could wint his!

There stocks would plummet like a turd if they did something that stupid.

Even as an an Apple fan boy, I need to ask...what planet are you on? Apple only has roughly 8% marketshare, lets say 50% of all Mac people use The Adobe tools (Probably more), so Adobe loses 4% of all potential users, This would devastate the Mac community. Then if Adobe announce a free crossgrade to PC and really stuck it to Apple, that would be it......do you know how many people rely on Adobe's tools as an occupation? I think Adobe should play hardball......This would villainize Steve Jobs over night.
 
This is so much bull! You are obviously NOT a designer or at least not a very good one. I own a production company and I can tell you that all of the people working for me, including myself, are always learning the newest and best technology to add to our skill sets. Any designer who ends up without a job because he's still using yesterday's technology is an idiot and it would be his own fault for not keeping up with the trends in his field that keep him employable and/or marketable.

With that said, I do agree that bashing Adobe is just plain stupid. I personally don't like Flash but Adobe does make a lot of awesome software, Photoshop, Illustrator (although I wish they's merge these two into one), After Effects, Lightroom to name a few and I think they are an awesome company. They just need to cut their loses on a dying technology and look toward the future instead trying to make everyone else live in the past. Flash is dead!


you'd think someone that "owns a production company" would at least realize that flash is far from dead. I own an interactive agency, and we have more specialized flash work right now then ever. It has more capabilities than any other runtime environment, except maybe silverlight, and continues to provide the same experience across many operating systems. HTML5 is not a replacement yet, and I will welcome a replacement, because like you said, we always evolve with our environment.. but if you think that change is anywhere near, you're absolutely crazy.
 
That is NONSENSE! You can run Flash better on Windows on your same Mac computer because Apple will not let Adobe have API access to use the same tools that html5 uses. You are poorly informed to believe this is Adobe's fault. Adobe has begged publicly to work with Apple, but Jobs cannot stand them so it doesn't matter what's best for the end user.

I'm afraid you're poorly informed. Not meaning that in a bad way. Lets look at the facts:

1) Adobe has a great PR campaign where they are asking "publicly" for Apple to do something.
2) On mobile, only Flash Lite has ever been shown. Full Flash is so slow and bad that I think the Pre is the only thing that has it and nobody I know uses it on the Pre because of how bad it is.
3) On desktop, Flash was horrible before h264 (the APIs they are asking for) and are still horrible.

Its a classic case of misdirection. Adobe asking Apple publicly for some APIs that make no difference at all to how fast Flash can run except when decoding HD movies. And for that they can use CoreVideo - but they choose not to. The ability is there. But instead of using the really great APIs Apple does provide, they decided to be a**es.

And as far as Jobs is concerned, you guys put way too much stock into him. Its not that he has a personal vendetta against them - he is sick and tired of them taking Mac users for granted and I agree with him. Not only that but he knows that if Flash was put on the phone, people would complain how bad the iPhone was at playing flash. Its better to not have it on there.

And then this Flash to iPhone converter - there are some apps on the APp store today built with it and they are all slower and suckier than real iPhone apps. So its a matter of keeping apps out of the app store that can never be - in their prime - that great.
 
It's very scary.



Actually, they do.

You might still remember the time between 1990 and 2000 when Microsoft took over the desktop market?

Microsoft and Apple competed directly and Microsoft won, using strategies less dirty than what Apple use now.


ahah less dirty?
right
google a little bit the story how ms became (and still is today) the monopoly of OS in pc
maybe u change your mind

regarding flash
apple has the rights to do so, for at least 2 years apple has been askig adobe to fix bugs of flash cause it creates problems on macs
adobe never listened
after a while one gets tired right?
adobe should have listened, now it is too late
adobe had the leverage now apple has it
they made a huge mistake believing apple was too small market to bother to fix bugs
adobe came out with a lame statement saying yes we made a mistake, for the past few years we wanted to make a software update regarding the mac bugs...but somehow we forgot,,, lol
are u kidding me?
 
All I want to say to this whole thing is:

I somehow hope that Adobe won't release CS6 for MacOS, so all designers who use CS have to switch to Windows - and that is a whole lot.
Then Apple finally knows how important Adobe is for them, so Apple finally stop playing silly games with Adobe.

Actually most designers would just stick to using CS5 and wait until alternatives come available. I remember using Live Picture (where Adobe stole layers from) and xRes from Macromedia even Quark worked on an alternative. If Adobe removed itself from the Mac market, someone will come to fill that void, most likely with better performing software.
 
Even as an an Apple fan boy, I need to ask...what planet are you on? Apple only has roughly 8% marketshare, lets say 50% of all Mac people use The Adobe tools (Probably more), so Adobe loses 4% of all potential users, This would devastate the Mac community. Then if Adobe announce a free crossgrade to PC and really stuck it to Apple, that would be it......do you know how many people rely on Adobe's tools as an occupation? I think Adobe should play hardball......This would villainize Steve Jobs over night.

Apple may have 8% of the market, but it has nearly 50% of Adobe sales. Its been said many times on this thread.
 
I'm a designer, I could never go without Adobe Apps, If for some reason Adobe decides not to bring Photoshop or Illustrator CS5 on the mac platform I would have to switch to a PC.. and I think the other designers would do the same.. It would also harm Apple's business :p
 
Even as an an Apple fan boy, I need to ask...what planet are you on? Apple only has roughly 8% marketshare, lets say 50% of all Mac people use The Adobe tools (Probably more), so Adobe loses 4% of all potential users, This would devastate the Mac community. Then if Adobe announce a free crossgrade to PC and really stuck it to Apple, that would be it......do you know how many people rely on Adobe's tools as an occupation? I think Adobe should play hardball......This would villainize Steve Jobs over night.

Apple moves some of its $40 billion. Steps in and buys up or creates an alternative suite, supporting current workflows or introducing a better standard within a few months.

Apple did Aperture and it's successful. Apple did FCP and it's successful. Apple came out of nowhere with FCP and in no time split the market with Avid 50/50.

Never underestimate what the most creative company in tech + $40 billion in cash + legions of hungry and enthusiastic developers can do. And if anyone can pull it off (plus create a killer UI while doing it), it's Apple.

Besides, Apple commands a huge chunk of Adobe sales. Adobe dropping the Mac would be like cutting off their nose to spite their face. Even Adobe isn't that stupid. They rely on software sales. They don't make hardware or an OS. Ultimately they are someone's bitch. Either Microsoft's or Apple's. Right now they're ~50% Apple's bitch, and it would be smart of them to keep it that way.
 
Auto / Apple / Adobe

Let's compare the situation with the auto industry:

Car fueled with petroleum are bad for the environment. Everybody knows that.
The vast majority of cars currently on the road are running on petroleum however.

While forcing automakers to build electric is a great step in the right direction, we can't ban highway access to the millions of drivers running on gas.

Yes HTML 5 is clean, open, versatile. Yes electric cars are clean, beneficial and economic.

But technology is in constant motion and it's evolution is meant to make this world a better one. You can't however, replace a widely spread technology overnight. This is just wrong that Apple is blocking the door to millions of users, web designers, advertising facilities...

I do agree that HTML5 will help everybody in the long run, but I can't accept Apple's attitude.

Finally, I don't know any Apple user who doesn't use Photoshop. Yes I know YOU might not have it, but the largest portion of Mac users are in the grpahic/video/audio industry. And politics aside, it doesn't make sense that apple is becoming such an enemy to Adobe. Well it does cause Apple is making money from it's toys (iPhone, iPod, iPad...) not computers anymore...

Everybody saying that Flash is obsolete, to refer one more time to the graphics industry, I'm not aware of one professional and recognized Photographer's portfolio not made with Flash.

+ Flash doesn't crash on Firefox and other browswers. The 1.4% of Safari users should consider switching.
 
As a side note, everyone here who thinks simply putting Flash on an iPad/iPhone is as simple as "allowing" simply doesn't get it. Look at the JooJoo - an "iPad killer" with Flash support. What's the verdict? It sucks because its so slow and unusable.

The only places I've seen Flash run well on a mobile device was Flash Lite, which doesn't even run most of the Flash sites out there. Yet people equate that with Apple lying that Flash is bad.

The amount of ignorance and disinformation from the people who want Flash is staggering here.

That's the point I keep making - and all the Flash shills keep ignoring it. Apple's not the only one leaving Flash off of mobile phones.

I don't really think it's ignorance. I think it's a well-orchestrated campaign from Flash developers who are too lazy to learn anything new. Look at the Adobe Flash Blog where they throw out a pile of inflammatory falsehoods - and then shut off the comment section specifically because they don't want to hear from Apple fans.

They know what they're doing - and it's despicable.


Even as an an Apple fan boy, I need to ask...what planet are you on? Apple only has roughly 8% marketshare, lets say 50% of all Mac people use The Adobe tools (Probably more), so Adobe loses 4% of all potential users, This would devastate the Mac community.

Strange math there. So you're assuming that half of all Mac users use Adobe products but 100% of Windows users? Aside from the obvious logical flaw in that, it's counter to reality. With 4-10% market share (depending on the time frame and geographical region), Apple accounts for about half of Adobe's revenues. If Adobe dropped the Mac, their revenues would drop by 50% overnight. AND, since they have a near monopoly on professional graphics editing software, they might well be the ones facing antitrust action and lawsuits.
 
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