ohh and adobe will never stop making cs for macs.. that's just insane, can we stop debating that at least.
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Adobe Acknowledges That Apple's Flash Prohibition Could Harm Business
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I am not sure I understand the question right but there are plenty of examples. Qt framework is a very good one. It's used by lots of companies to develop applications for Windows, Unix, Linux, OS X, Symbian and Maemo.
I will repeat it then.
What applications ( other than Flash ) do you write that is for both Windows and OSX using the same compile design ?
This is a great point. Why couldn't Adobe make an HTML5 based IDE for web apps? They could. They have dreamweaver-- it's not great. But they could do it.
Rubbish!
It takes years for HTML to progress. How long between HTML 4 and HTML 5? Many years.
Flash development is far faster than a new ratified HTML spec to come out... oh and then the time for browsers to support said spec.
Except now Apple and Google are promoting it.
BIG difference. In the span of only a few months, the talk is all about HTML5. That's pretty astounding. We've got some major powers backing the standard.
It isn't about *what* HTML5 is, its about *who* is pushing it. And when Apple sneezes, the rest of the industry grabs a Kleenex. SJ so much as whispers the word "HTML5" and it makes headlines the next day. This is no joke.
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Who has to?
If I ever came across a need, like the engineering drawing example a few posts back..which in my line of work I never have..I'll fire up an RDP to a host that can play it.
But..I think the biggest losers are the fancy restarants that have 100% flash sites that on a GOOD fast PC, are still slow and a PITA, and when I hear about em on the radio and look em up on my phone..and cant view anything at all, entirely their loss.
I think that the content creators will do the changing. They'll either have to build parallel sites (flash/html5) or just html5 as a standard.
The consumer chooses the content, the developers need to stop making those choices now.
This is the reality. There are few real world examples of people writing code once and using it succesfully on multiple platforms. From desktops to consoles, to mobile devices, it just does not happen.
That is one of the reasons why Flash has done so well though. It falls right in with my argument that those who use flash or either lazy or incompetent. In this case this would fall under the lazy category. Rather then do it right on multiple systems they will do a sub-par version that works on multiple platforms.
Never an approach I have ever supported myself.
I will repeat it then.
What applications ( other than Flash ) do you write that is for both Windows and OSX using the same compile design ?
Currently, I only develop for Linux. In the past, I did develop cross-platform applications for Unix and Windows. But this move from Apple is an affront to all software designers.
Adobe could actually be in the lead in terms of developing the next set of web-standards based development tools; it astounds me why they don't see that opportunity.
Thank you. A voice of reason in a thread full of ignorant fanboism.
I am developing a project at work now, with FLASH. Not HTML 5.
To all the armchair webdevs who want to jump on the 'bash Flash, love Apple cuz it's the hip, Woodstock rebellious thing to do' bandwagon.....
Where is the HTML5 IDE/dev kit for me to develop my project with?
Oh yeah. It doesn't exist yet.
Canvas? Ha!
Most people on this site will back Apple with this because they have Macs and read email, surf the web and occasionally edit their home movies with them.
They read the occasional tech blog and now feel fully versed on all technical aspects of web technology.
This superior attitude is hilarious. The Onion even spoofed it a year or so ago.
Sorry, to seem like I am bashing Apple fans on an Apple site, but in this case, the fanboism is causing blind allegiance on the Flash issue.
Every serious developer knows you can't do 'real' Web Development with a Mac, unless you are running Windows on it.
News flash. Apple isnt about "making your life cozier and nicer, cuz it's the right thing to do."
They are JUST as eager to make money as Adobe.
Do you honestly think they are trying to kill Flash because it's the "right thing to do?"
Its about the dolla dolla bills cash money.
Oh, but when you wrap it in 60's counterculture aesthetics and play a little Dylan at your keynote, you are all of a sudden the "Good guy."
Yeah, still. Tell me how I am supposed to develop my project now, not 2 years from now or whenever HTML 5 is supposed to be "ready."
Sure, I could do it now in HTML 5, spend 3 times as long and not have it looking nearly as good.
And yeah. I don't just read tech blogs and forums. This is what I do for a living.
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How so?
What statistic shows actual #s of people that would NOT buy a mobile platform that cant view flash?
The people harmed, are the people with something to sell, that are losing more and more of their market eyeballs, every day.
Apple doesnt -have- to change, Adobe should CONSIDER it, but in the end, the content developers -must- adopt and support both to reach the broadest market..not to mention a relatively affluent Apple one.
Your knowledge is very limited. Here is one example. Qt framework is one very widely used tool. ere is a list of some of the applications that use Qt (from Wikipedia) (sorry for long post everybody):
Some popular examples of applications that use Qt include:
AcetoneISO, a software to mount most common images
Adobe Photoshop Album, an image organizing application[40]
Arora, a free and open source lightweight cross-platform web browser
Autodesk MotionBuilder, professional 3D character animation software
Autodesk Maya, 3D modelling and animation software
Avidemux, a Free Software program designed for multi-purpose video editing and processing
Avogadro, advanced molecule editor
BOUML,a free uml toolbox
CineFX, a cross-platform, open source, free, video editing, effects, and compositing suite
CoCoA, a software for computations in commutative algebra
DAZ Studio, a 3D figure illustration/animation application
Doxygen, an API document generator
Emergent, a neural network simulator.
FEKO, a software product for the simulation of electromagnetic fields
FreeCAD, a free and open source 3D-Solid and general purpose design CAD/CAE
Freemat, a free numerical computing environment and programming language
Full Tilt Poker, one of the most popular online poker programs
Gadu-Gadu, a popular Polish instant messaging client
Gambas, A free development environment based on a Basic interpreter
GoldenDict, an open-source dictionary software
Google Earth, a 3D map program
Hydrogen, an advanced drum machine.
ImageVis3D, a volume ray-casting application
Ipe, a free vector graphics editor
ISE Webpack, a freeware EDA tool for Windows and Linux developed by Xilinx
Kadu, a Polish instant messenger using the Gadu-Gadu protocol
KDELibs, a library base for many KDE applications including Amarok, K3b, KDevelop and KOffice
Last.fm Player, the desktop client for the popular internet radio and music community website
Launchy, the open source keystroke launcher for Windows and Linux
LMMS, a free open source sequencer and software synthesis package
LyX, a GUI frontend to LaTeX
Mathematica, Linux and Windows versions use Qt for the GUI front-end
Maxwell Render, a software package that aids in the production of photorealistic images from computer 3D model data
Mixxx, cross-platform open source DJ mixing software
MuseScore, a WYSIWYG graphical music notation editor
MythTV, an open source digital video recorder
Nuke, a node-based compositor
Opera, a web browser, uses Qt in the Linux-version
PDFedit, a free PDF editor
Psi, an instant messaging client for XMPP
qBittorrent, a free BitTorrent P2P client.
QCad, a CAD software package for 2D design and drafting
Qjackctl, a tool for controlling the JACK Audio Connection Kit
QSvn, a GUI Subversion client for Linux, UNIX, Mac OS X and Windows
QtCreator, the free software cross-platform integrated development environment from Nokia
Quantum GIS, a free desktop GIS
Quassel IRC, a cross-platform IRC client
RealFlow, a fluid and dynamics simulator for the 3D industry
Recoll, a desktop search tool
Rosegarden, a free software digital audio workstation program
SciDAVis, a cross-platform plotting and data analysis program
Scribus, a desktop publishing application
Skype, a P2P VOIP application[41]
SMPlayer, a multiplatform multimedia player front-end for MPlayer.
Stellarium, a free software planetarium
TeamSpeak, cross-platform voice communication software
Texmaker, a cross-platform open source LaTeX editor
TeXworks, It is a graphical user interface to the typesetting system TeX.
Tlen.pl, a popular Polish instant messaging client
TOra, a database administration tool[42]
UniversalIndentGUI,an application which helps the user to beautify, reformat or indent various kinds of code.
Valknut, a program that uses the Direct Connect protocol.
VirtualBox, a PC virtualization application
VisIt, an interactive parallel visualization tool for viewing scientific data
VisTrails, a scientific workflow management and visualization system
VLC Media Player, an open source media player.
VoxOx, a unified communications software.
WordPress, based on Qt for Maemo and Symbian
wpa_supplicant, a free software implementation of an IEEE 802.11i
Xconfig, Linux Kernel configuration tool
It's not about APPLE
If APPLE gave people what they wanted we'd still be using command lines, 5.25" Disks, and Parallel Printers. What Adobe needs to do is Modify their Flash Creation Program to output HTML5 just like DreamWeaver generates the HTML for standard pages let them do the same for Flash designed applets. If it wasn't for APPLE, Adobe wouldn't exist (remember Pagemaker)
If APPLE gave people what they wanted we'd still be using command lines, 5.25" Disks, and Parallel Printers. What Adobe needs to do is Modify their Flash Creation Program to output HTML5 just like DreamWeaver generates the HTML for standard pages let them do the same for Flash designed applets. If it wasn't for APPLE, Adobe wouldn't exist (remember Pagemaker)
There is no basis other then petty grievances to justify this decision.
And to argue it was done to prevent poor quality Apps from reaching the App store, we have already seen that Apples approval process has nothing to do with the quality of the App.
Apple needs to learn fast, that it's Developers who make their products great, and preventing Developers from using different tools other than their own to create Apps that can run on multiple platforms, will do nothing more then hurt consumers in the end.
And to argue it was done to prevent poor quality Apps from reaching the App store, we have already seen that Apples approval process has nothing to do with the quality of the App.
Apple needs to learn fast, that it's Developers who make their products great, and preventing Developers from using different tools other than their own to create Apps that can run on multiple platforms, will do nothing more then hurt consumers in the end.
No, its not a big difference.
Any sort comings in HTML5 is not going to be addressed until the next new HTML spec.. which isn't going to happen any time soon.
No, it is about *What* - because if HTML 5 doesn't support functionality, then its not going to happen anytime soon.
Apple ( not sure about Google ) have been on the HTML standards committee for a while now and still took a while for HTML5 to see the light of day.
HTML5 has been work in progress for a while.. it just didn't 'happen' because SJ said so. SJ is not a freaking god!
So, going back to your original statement "HTML isn't standing still"... not it doesn't stand still, it just takes an age for the next HTML spec to be created. Its more than just Apple. its a freaking committee!
Have any of you flash haters actually tried youtube's html5 player? it often don't start and you have to play manually, caches forever, and the resource usage? have you actually looked at it? flash has NEVER crashed my safari, it actually never crashes.
Playing with the flash I get 70% idle time and flash starts with 12MByte of memory and grows to 40MByte (properly cache). Compare that to safari's own usage of 185MByte. And thats without access to the acceleration API's.
HTML5 ... 82% idle time, so i save 12% on the same material. Give access to the acceleration API and i bet its 0%.
Playing with the flash I get 70% idle time and flash starts with 12MByte of memory and grows to 40MByte (properly cache). Compare that to safari's own usage of 185MByte. And thats without access to the acceleration API's.
HTML5 ... 82% idle time, so i save 12% on the same material. Give access to the acceleration API and i bet its 0%.
Wow, history has really shown the exact opposite of what you are suggesting. Most developers will go to the dominant platform where the money and users are, because most developers want to sell their product and are not caught up in spite games like you are suggesting.
And I say this as a developer / manager / exec who built a career on Java and HTML during the Microsoft dominance days. Write once run anywhere is a pipe dream that has been crushed into oblivion.
An affront? Ridiculous. You jest, right?
I don't see it that way. And Apple doesn't build their products for designers, they build them for end users. Microsoft on the other hand did build a big developer community, and look where it got them.
Hmm.. I heard they let 40 people go from the FCP team but I don't think that includes ALL of there developers and staff. Please unless you have a link to correct this, do not spread fud.
Do you have a list of Qt programs that are actually popular and high quality?
I could produce a similar list of "popular" Java applications that hardly anyone ever uses, too.
It has obviously has nothing or very little to do with Adobe seeing that it affects a lot of other compilers as well. The multi tasking theory makes sense. There's gonna be some real explanations soon anyway.
As far as Adobe goes. Just give up already.
As far as Adobe goes. Just give up already.
this is a weird argument...
This is a strange argument for why they should have flash on the iphone. Why not make that little cartoon for your niece in flash, or after effects, or a ton of other programs for example, and then export a quicktime, post it to youtube and voila? no programming needed.
This is a strange argument for why they should have flash on the iphone. Why not make that little cartoon for your niece in flash, or after effects, or a ton of other programs for example, and then export a quicktime, post it to youtube and voila? no programming needed.