very true sorry was confused by thread title. You all continue your debate and let me add that HTML5 will never get off the ground unless Javascript improves. They go hand in hand .
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Adobe Acknowledges That Apple's Flash Prohibition Could Harm Business
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very true sorry was confused by thread title. You all continue your debate and let me add that HTML5 will never get off the ground unless Javascript improves. They go hand in hand .
you and your toy story demo.. Are you kidding me? do you know anything? that thing is nothing more than motion tweens and embedded sound.. come on, if you don't know anything don't open your big mouth. and that's 64% of MOBILE WEB HITS.. not all.. All mobile only makes up 10% of browsing. Apple is nothing compared to every browser out there.
agreed. Javascript speed has gotten better, but as a language, it needs advancement. I read that creating a javascript pureMVC architecture was a huge pain because of it.
The people who say that don't even know what HTML5 is. HTML is a PAGE DESCRIPTION LANGUAGE. It simply cannot be used to create interactive content as Flash can do it.
What people in the context of HTML5 are actually talking about, without knowing it, is a large bundle of various different technologies that have been labeled by the lobotomized marketing departments as "HTML5". It's actually stuff like WebGL, JavaScript and probably dozens of other technologies that are -- embedded -- into HTML code. And all that stuff must be provided by the browser.
Flash, on the other hand, is more comparable with the Java language and platform or with the .NET platform. It's a platform and browser independent runtime environment with an own language, ActionScript. But unlike Java, it works extraordinarily well on the web and only has a small foot print.
what's the difference. 80% of the apps on the app store are garbage anyway. There are plenty that are poorly coded, and I don't see apple rejecting them.
Here, let's tweak a few of your numbers so that they're reasonably accurate.
Apple's over-all market share: 9-12% (I'll give you 8% as a low-ball)
Unfortunately, that's the last number you had close. The platform share of Adobe's tools are approximately 50/50 Windows/Mac. I've see numbers of 40%-55% for Adobe's market Mac at various points. (We'll go with 40% as the lower bounds.)
That means that if Adobe were to drop OS X as a supported platform suddenly, they'd lose 40% of their market share right there. Sure, some people would move to Windows when the needed the next version, but there's likely to be a number of contenders ready to move into that vacuum, including some with Flash-esqe development kits which support HTML5 as the output, so Adobe won't get all (or probably even most) of that 40% back.
Let's pretend, for argument's sake, that they would get 30 of that 40% back after a year or two. That would mean they'd be short 10-40% of their market for a few years. During that period, they'll be bleeding money. (Not even Microsoft during its monopoly hey-day made 40% net profits.)
End result, Adobe dropping OS X as a supported platform without significant warning would result in Adobe taking a major financial hit for a couple years. Meanwhile, that same advance warning would simply serve to let Adobe's erstwhile competitors gear up for that day so they could make preemptive announcements allowing even more of them to claim the market share Adobe would be giving up.
thank god someone else knows what the hell he's talking about. All i see here are palin americans(google it) arguing about stuff that doesn't even make any sense. If I hear one more person say html5 replaced flash I'm going to snap.. and beyond that if one more person claims cs6 isn't going to be on mac os x, I'll kill them.
And if one more person compares the weak ass toy story demo steve jobs showed that used javascript and a tween class, as proof that no one needs flash. I'll kill steve jobs.
Because Apple doesn't expose the APIs for using the hardware decode?
Windows does expose the APIs, so Flash doesn't tax the CPU (and battery) running Windows on an Apple.
What part of "Apple Fail" isn't obvious?
The whole debate stems from the <canvas> tag thing is the canvas tag does just that which is places the canvas javascript is the paint (which I mentioned in another thread)
HTML is not a programming language those fancy demos people are looking at and think "Oh wow HTML5 is so great it's the future" is actually driven by Javascript.
I am just learning Javascript and it could do amazing things just needs some drastic improvements. Couple it w/ CSS3 animation and the <canvas> tag that would give Flash a huge run for its money but we are YEARS away.
Wow look at all of the adobe fan boys on here. There are alot of blind sheep when it comes to flash. Flash doesn't even support the mobile platform yet.
There is a rudimentary version of flash for WEB OS which doesn't work too good and is a battery hog. So all these chants of making flash seem like its such a big thing for the mobile platform. It's not because there are no real mobile devices that support it yet.
This so called "Open Screen" project is a pipe dream because there are no fruits from it. Wake me up when adobe actually has real support for the mobile platform. Because it doesn't
There is a rudimentary version of flash for WEB OS which doesn't work too good and is a battery hog. So all these chants of making flash seem like its such a big thing for the mobile platform. It's not because there are no real mobile devices that support it yet.
This so called "Open Screen" project is a pipe dream because there are no fruits from it. Wake me up when adobe actually has real support for the mobile platform. Because it doesn't
yyeesssss.. exactly.. it's going to be great... going to be. because tying them together, and efficiently, at that, is YEARS AWAY. You hear that everyone?
I'm confused.. did they not just release flash 10.1 for android? I am actually asking this. I mean as it is, I know on android you can just browse to a website with flash and have it work.
You can build AIR apps for Android and there are loads of demos out there already.
10.1 is currently in pre-release so it's as good as gold and I've been using it since the start and only had a few hiccups but it's gotten way better.
In a few days you will be able to build flash for IPhone but now we don't know whats going to happen.
If you guys want to get clued up as to who's supporting flash and whats going on in the mobile world please read here: http://www.openscreenproject.org/
And yes like everyone else said HTML can not compete with flash because the cool stuff is mostly made up of many other libraries that don't work well across all platforms, it'll be no different than the crap we have today and there is NO WAY IN HELL HTML 5 and JQuery or Ajax can handle as much data in real time as Flex can when using AMF just keep dreaming seriously HTML will never deliver like flash.
The App I am working on now will be compiled for Web and Desktop and Android from a single source base and some of our screens deal with 10K+ records all streamed seamlessly as you scroll Data grids and lists and much much more with the help of Adobe LiveCycle and if you don't know what that is then you should not be on these forums Arguing about HTML VS Flash until you go read, view demos and really get a feel for what you are talking about.
You must stop thinking of Flash as just a video player since the advent of Flex and AIR the game has changed big time, no one builds sites in Flash anymore only adverts and games, the heavy stuff is done in Flex/AIR.
10.1 is currently in pre-release so it's as good as gold and I've been using it since the start and only had a few hiccups but it's gotten way better.
In a few days you will be able to build flash for IPhone but now we don't know whats going to happen.
If you guys want to get clued up as to who's supporting flash and whats going on in the mobile world please read here: http://www.openscreenproject.org/
And yes like everyone else said HTML can not compete with flash because the cool stuff is mostly made up of many other libraries that don't work well across all platforms, it'll be no different than the crap we have today and there is NO WAY IN HELL HTML 5 and JQuery or Ajax can handle as much data in real time as Flex can when using AMF just keep dreaming seriously HTML will never deliver like flash.
The App I am working on now will be compiled for Web and Desktop and Android from a single source base and some of our screens deal with 10K+ records all streamed seamlessly as you scroll Data grids and lists and much much more with the help of Adobe LiveCycle and if you don't know what that is then you should not be on these forums Arguing about HTML VS Flash until you go read, view demos and really get a feel for what you are talking about.
You must stop thinking of Flash as just a video player since the advent of Flex and AIR the game has changed big time, no one builds sites in Flash anymore only adverts and games, the heavy stuff is done in Flex/AIR.
I'm gonna laugh my @ss off if Adobe goes down for this and Apple ends up consuming Adobe...
Adobe doesn't have enough that Apple would want.
Ha ha people dont want Apple yeh right
Did you know an amazing statistic:
As of 2010 Apple holds 91% of the $1,000 and up computer market. In May of 2009, Apple reportedly had 88% of the $1,000 and over computer market and held 66% of the same market in Q1 2008.
Means their market is growing and people who want a cheap PC go get exactly that "A cheap PC" and you get what you pay for.
What end of the market would you want as a business .. the cheap end.. dont think so.
And as for the MP3 player market thats a no brainer .. there are many many cheap alternatives if you want an MP3 player .. but people want Apple
Apple is far from prefect , do they have some annoying restrictions in their ecosystem YES , but they do provide (generally) a great user experience , a solid OS and products that simply let people get on and do what they need to rather than spend their whole time stuffing about with the technology.
We have a company of Macs with a few PC's .. We rarely hear from the Mac users .. they just get on with their work.. on the other hand the PC users are always complaining, having problems or asking how the hell they can fix their PC's at home.
Our work place used to be 100% PC and 100% people using PC's at home. The workplace is now 99% Mac and at home 80% + have switched to Mac.
If you enjoy spending your day stuffing about with the computer go get a PC , if you just want to get your work done and the computer sits in the background not hindering you then get a Mac.
Did you know an amazing statistic:
As of 2010 Apple holds 91% of the $1,000 and up computer market. In May of 2009, Apple reportedly had 88% of the $1,000 and over computer market and held 66% of the same market in Q1 2008.
Means their market is growing and people who want a cheap PC go get exactly that "A cheap PC" and you get what you pay for.
What end of the market would you want as a business .. the cheap end.. dont think so.
And as for the MP3 player market thats a no brainer .. there are many many cheap alternatives if you want an MP3 player .. but people want Apple
Apple is far from prefect , do they have some annoying restrictions in their ecosystem YES , but they do provide (generally) a great user experience , a solid OS and products that simply let people get on and do what they need to rather than spend their whole time stuffing about with the technology.
We have a company of Macs with a few PC's .. We rarely hear from the Mac users .. they just get on with their work.. on the other hand the PC users are always complaining, having problems or asking how the hell they can fix their PC's at home.
Our work place used to be 100% PC and 100% people using PC's at home. The workplace is now 99% Mac and at home 80% + have switched to Mac.
If you enjoy spending your day stuffing about with the computer go get a PC , if you just want to get your work done and the computer sits in the background not hindering you then get a Mac.
Hey if Flash scripted, cross platform Reversi is your thing, go nuts.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/adobe-air-developer-demonstration-one-game-five-platforms-all/
But really this is too bad for Android. More lowest common denominator cross platform crapware for them.
Apple can only benefit by keeping the Flash Script kiddies on the Android platform.
Yes but then they will not be able to claim the platform with the most Apps. Imagine that! What's Apple without its [mostly false] commercials
Heh think what you want, they work, they perform well and they are usable and nice to use/look at so I don't see where the failure is. This just means more people will go to the platform because they will be able to reach a wider audience.
WOW, pretty easy to see the side you're on. Dude, Apple is on the side of the customer. As a Mac customer I get poor a poor Flash experience on the web. My 7 hour battery drops down to 3hours as soon as I go on YouTube and fire up on video. That just shows how horribly coded Flash is. As a Mac customer I have to wait damn near a 2 years before Adobe releases the Mac version of anything that was on Windows. FAIL.
So if Adobe drops Mac support on on future versions of their productivity suite they would be hurting the customer, not Apple.
So, in spite of rapidly dropping component costs Apple has not reduced their prices.
Fixed that for you.
Please use the [ strike][/nostrike] tags around the original text so that the original text that you are "fixing" can be seen - your point is lost if the original content is lost.
Dude, people (professionals) care about the software much more than about platform. Graphic designer spending 10 hours per day working in Adobe CS4 does not care about OS or the color of the computer. So, Adobe customers will have no choice but switch to Windows.
