And this is where we will have to agree to disagree. You really don't understand what I'm even arguing. Im not putting forth the opinion that flash doesn't require large resources or that good coders or bad coders have anything to do with that, and clearly for this reason it needs to be adjusted to work on a mobile platform. Despite your expectedly sarcastic remarks about power source differences between a mobile platform and a typical PC I do actually understand the differences in platforms and the particular considerations. The point I am making here is that flash content is created because there is a niche for it to fill, that for the moment, cant be filled by another product. If you don't believe that it has a niche, then I don't know what to tell you. Write a letter to Westin, Ford, Audi, MGM, Microsoft, Coke or any of the other huge fortune 500 companies spending millions of dollars creating the content because its getting them results and tell them they are stupid. The fact of the matter is, consumers want to view that content. So the bottom line is very simple, there is content users want that they cant get on the iPhone and just because you don't like it doesn't make the content irrelevant. If you seriously think that no one who uses an iPhone would want to see the Halo 3 site for example your smoking what you sell.
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Adobe and ARM Partner to Bring Flash to ARM-based Mobiles (Like the iPhone?)
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And this is where we will have to agree to disagree. You really don't understand what I'm even arguing. Im not putting forth the opinion that flash doesn't require large resources or that good coders or bad coders have anything to do with that, and clearly for this reason it needs to be adjusted to work on a mobile platform. Despite your expectedly sarcastic remarks about power source differences between a mobile platform and a typical PC I do actually understand the differences in platforms and the particular considerations. The point I am making here is that flash content is created because there is a niche for it to fill, that for the moment, cant be filled by another product. If you don't believe that it has a niche, then I don't know what to tell you. Write a letter to Westin, Ford, Audi, MGM, Microsoft, Coke or any of the other huge fortune 500 companies spending millions of dollars creating the content because its getting them results and tell them they are stupid. The fact of the matter is, consumers want to view that content. So the bottom line is very simple, there is content users want that they cant get on the iPhone and just because you don't like it doesn't make the content irrelevant. If you seriously think that no one who uses an iPhone would want to see the Halo 3 site for example your smoking what you sell.
In Japan, Flash on mobiles is quite a big business.
Back here, there's been some cool stuff written in Flash for Windows Mobile. A really decent iPhone Springboard clone (only better in some ways) was done using it last year. (Since it was a weekend project, the authors have stopped.)
As for battery. Not sure what people mean, unless they're talking about their limited experience with desktop Flash. Most mobile Flash apps are fairly static.
(Speaking of gratuitous battery usage, check out the animation effects on the iPhone. Sliding windows, rotating, zooming. Fun, yes, but they use extra battery too.)
I have no doubt that Adobe will come up with something useful... and popular. They have to, before Silverlight takes off.
Sooner or later, Apple could have to come up with their own standard, or buy into someone else's, or get left behind. Just as they had to do with licensing Exchange, waiting for MS to port Office tools, etc.
Back here, there's been some cool stuff written in Flash for Windows Mobile. A really decent iPhone Springboard clone (only better in some ways) was done using it last year. (Since it was a weekend project, the authors have stopped.)
As for battery. Not sure what people mean, unless they're talking about their limited experience with desktop Flash. Most mobile Flash apps are fairly static.
(Speaking of gratuitous battery usage, check out the animation effects on the iPhone. Sliding windows, rotating, zooming. Fun, yes, but they use extra battery too.)
I have no doubt that Adobe will come up with something useful... and popular. They have to, before Silverlight takes off.
Sooner or later, Apple could have to come up with their own standard, or buy into someone else's, or get left behind. Just as they had to do with licensing Exchange, waiting for MS to port Office tools, etc.
Change the could to will and you have the truth of the matter. Personally, I suspect Apple will adopt flash in time, and that they are just leveraging their early to market clout to get adobe to optimize and it appears to be working. This argument has as much to do with flash as it does mobile content in general, I am increasingly seeing clients ask about mobile content development. As mobile platforms continue to grow I suspect we will see more and more cross functional ubiquitous technology and developments standards.
If Flash gets added to the iPhone, I hope...
...it is in the following manner: when you open a site that has flash, you get a preview of the Flash animation/movie and an option to either view it or not.
Too much Flash content is ads or introductory screens that are more in the way than they are in-formation.
...it is in the following manner: when you open a site that has flash, you get a preview of the Flash animation/movie and an option to either view it or not.
Too much Flash content is ads or introductory screens that are more in the way than they are in-formation.
While I agree with the sentiment, this is a bit like saying to much content on TV is ads, and that if Apple made a very popular mobile TV they should give you the option to skip the commercials. Sounds great in theory, it just doesn't make any money for content developers and as a result they will never focus their efforts as devoutly on a platform that circumvents advertising.
Embed it in XHTML
run it on multiple OSes directly, without having to recode and recompile
I'm mostly joking, but this is a big issue.Unfortunately Flash is popular, and it has been used for a lot of content on the web, especially in my industry—motion graphics and animation, and other visual art. Unfortunately a lot of people's portfolios are designed in Flash. Generally I wish they weren't—unless it's something innovative. For that reason, I'd like to see flash come to the iPhone, I'd like to see this content. A lot of the sites I go to rely on Flash.
Flash can do some interesting things—and many times it's used to do things that could be done with standards based web coding—and while it's definitely better if a program can be made into a cocoa app, that's certainly not feasible for the web. It's not just about iPhones. It's not just about programs. Flash isn't a standard, but it's ubiquitous—and not in the bad Internet Explorer kind of way.
Also to any of you who feel the need to say that a company is doing something and decide to use "are" instead of "is" pay attention. Company names are singular. Even legally companies are singular entities, treated like individuals. Thus, it's "Adobe is" or "Apple is." Think about it. Would you say "Adobe are stupid?" Say that aloud if you said yes and listen to how retarded it sounds. I wish I knew who started this so that I could kill them.
Am I the only one that is tired of the whole "Flash coming to iPhone" rumors? It has been well over a year now since the initial release and there still is no flash, yet there are rumors on almost a monthly basis. I was once really in favor of Flash coming to iPhone, but after using the first gen and now the 3G since release day last year, I really don't care if flash ever comes to iPhone.
I will say this, though I want Flash, I want to be able to turn it off. It does run poorly, but there are sites that I go to that require it. I wish those people would have designed their sites to work without Flash as well, but that's not Adobe's fault.
Honestly it'd be nice to have everyone do away with flash, but I don't see it happening. If Firefox didn't support the Flash plugin, it might disappear. But I don't see that happening. It would also be nice if CSS3 specs would come out with full support on major browsers. It'd be nice if IE were discontinued, because MS just can't ever get it right. I wish, but I doubt.
Unfortunately good websites aren't always developed by good web designers. Content is king.
Honestly it'd be nice to have everyone do away with flash, but I don't see it happening. If Firefox didn't support the Flash plugin, it might disappear. But I don't see that happening. It would also be nice if CSS3 specs would come out with full support on major browsers. It'd be nice if IE were discontinued, because MS just can't ever get it right. I wish, but I doubt.
Probably not the only one. Good Web designers don't rely only on Flash to deliver the needed Information...
Unfortunately good websites aren't always developed by good web designers. Content is king.
Oh great, this is just what unstable, crash-happy Safari mobile needs.
How about Apple fix Safari mobile so it can display a standard web page without crashing or freezing first.
How about Apple fix Safari mobile so it can display a standard web page without crashing or freezing first.
Oddly Enough..
Oddly enough its been 2 yrs since Flash content in the S60 browser has been available and over 30different S60 Nokia phones.
Whats worse ALL have over 220Mhz ARM 9/11 application cpu's or multi-core cpu's with an ARM9/11 application processing unit. Here is the real kicker though. Nokia reached out to Apple almost 2-3yrs ago to collaborate on this OSS browser; commonly now known as Webkit .
Flash Lite 3.0 is on my E71.
Does anyone know of a site that has been made using Flash 10 that I can test on my mobile phone, please?
Thanks.
Oddly enough its been 2 yrs since Flash content in the S60 browser has been available and over 30different S60 Nokia phones.
Whats worse ALL have over 220Mhz ARM 9/11 application cpu's or multi-core cpu's with an ARM9/11 application processing unit. Here is the real kicker though. Nokia reached out to Apple almost 2-3yrs ago to collaborate on this OSS browser; commonly now known as Webkit
.Flash Lite 3.0 is on my E71.
Does anyone know of a site that has been made using Flash 10 that I can test on my mobile phone, please?
Thanks.
Flash = Air = Win
If truly rich desktop esque cloud comp internet apps which give you access to your data over multiple platforms isn't inticing for you then you should probably GTFOH.
Lets not forget, Adobe inherted Macromedia's "issues" (but also picked up dreamweaver). I'd give em atleast a year and some change especially gearing out for the CS4 release.
That, or Adobe could cater to the windows base of photoshop and completely forgoe mac consumption since Jobs thinks they can jerk dev's around and make them jump at every beck and call.
Infact, that would be pretty epic.
If truly rich desktop esque cloud comp internet apps which give you access to your data over multiple platforms isn't inticing for you then you should probably GTFOH.
Lets not forget, Adobe inherted Macromedia's "issues" (but also picked up dreamweaver). I'd give em atleast a year and some change especially gearing out for the CS4 release.
That, or Adobe could cater to the windows base of photoshop and completely forgoe mac consumption since Jobs thinks they can jerk dev's around and make them jump at every beck and call.
Infact, that would be pretty epic.
It's good to see that they work on this, but to be honest, I don't really miss flash support. I didn't had a single situation in which I did't got the information I needed because of flash... But perhaps I'm the only one
Flash is not only used for information and ads, it is used for websites like USTREAM, STICKAM and JUSTIN.TV multimedia content that uses FLASH for webcam streaming. There are people who want to view content like Leo Laporte broadcasting on Stickam while on the bus, train or away from the PC on their iPhone or Video chat using embedded flash to their family and friends.
As an alternative. These cam sites should convert to quicktime as their player for cam viewing.
For those of you complaining about Flash on the iPhone: Don't. If you don't want it, don't use it. There's ALREADY a way to turn Flash off and it hasn't even been released yet! Open Settings on your iPhone/iPod touch and go to Safari. Notice the Plug-Ins switch. Once Flash comes out (if it ever does), turn that off and you'll be fine.
P.S. If you're wondering what that switch does now, I'm pretty sure it turns off the ability to open embedded YouTube videos as well as the ability to play QuickTime over Safari.
P.S. If you're wondering what that switch does now, I'm pretty sure it turns off the ability to open embedded YouTube videos as well as the ability to play QuickTime over Safari.
i'm kinda coming around on this. at first i was way against flash on the iphone for the reasons most have pointed out - slow loading, compatibility, etc.
but then . . . i have, on a number of occasions, come across sites that i really needed it. for instance, i was car shopping and wanted to look up on the manufacturer's site info on the car but it was all flash and couldn't load it. other times restaurant menus have been in flash, etc. the few times i've needed it, it has been annoying not to be able to load it.
so now, i'm in the camp of it would be nice to have it.
but with one caveat - the ability to turn it on and off as needed. there's plenty of sites that use it needlessly and slow things up for gain other than they think it is making their site look pretty. so, in those cases, it would be nice to disable flash. in other cases, where something is necessary in order to get the info from the needed page, being able to turn flash on to load the page correctly would be great.
and lastly, would this allow for the ability to watch tv shows from hulu.com, should flash work? that alone might be a reason enough!!
but then . . . i have, on a number of occasions, come across sites that i really needed it. for instance, i was car shopping and wanted to look up on the manufacturer's site info on the car but it was all flash and couldn't load it. other times restaurant menus have been in flash, etc. the few times i've needed it, it has been annoying not to be able to load it.
so now, i'm in the camp of it would be nice to have it.
but with one caveat - the ability to turn it on and off as needed. there's plenty of sites that use it needlessly and slow things up for gain other than they think it is making their site look pretty. so, in those cases, it would be nice to disable flash. in other cases, where something is necessary in order to get the info from the needed page, being able to turn flash on to load the page correctly would be great.
and lastly, would this allow for the ability to watch tv shows from hulu.com, should flash work? that alone might be a reason enough!!
I wouldn't say "Flash = AIR" since AIR can be made without any Flash integration what so ever. I am also quite surprised that most of the talk in this thread has been about Flash. Sure, flash is good and all, but really, Flash is a fairly old technology at this point (FutureSplash in 1996).
Adobe AIR, on the other hand, is quite the development platform for web authors that want to create desktop, no-constant-internet-connection-required applications without having to learn Cocoa, ObjectiveC or even having to be bound to the Safari browser on the iPhone (if this rumor becomes reality that is).
Adobe AIR, on the other hand, is quite the development platform for web authors that want to create desktop, no-constant-internet-connection-required applications without having to learn Cocoa, ObjectiveC or even having to be bound to the Safari browser on the iPhone (if this rumor becomes reality that is).
If and when they implement it, it will be as others have said. Off by default, and when you come across a site that has a flash file, you'll click into it to engage it. (a la that active X garbage)
I don't buy it though. Adobe has not even seen fit to make a proper flash player for OS X, ever. And Apple will want to make sure apps/games go through the app store.
I don't buy it though. Adobe has not even seen fit to make a proper flash player for OS X, ever. And Apple will want to make sure apps/games go through the app store.
Therefore, the content needs to always be accessible, on any platform, in any way
I'm not disagreeing, but you can't stop people from designing in Flash, and for some things Flash is actually better suitednot often, but it happens.
Also, if it needs to always be accessible on any platform in any way, one could say that means the iPhone needs to have Flash.
Ever notice that there has been a youTube app built into the iPhone from day one? And also that it shows a Quicktime logo?
The youTube app is opened when you click on the embedded videos and if there's an h.264 version of the video it plays, otherwise it doesn't. This was mentioned a lot when the first iPhone came out. youTube has been converting videos to Quicktime H.264 so that iPhone users can see themand I believe that's how they offer their HQ videos since Flash can play H.264s.
I agree, the long wait is actually even longer now, and sooner or later we should be focused on the next best technology beyond flash...
I would like to know why watching a crappy quality flash video consumes 95%+ of my cpu time, while watching a DVD quality video in quicktime or vlc uses less then 50%?
That's bullcrap.
That's bullcrap.