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Adobe Debuts 'Wallaby' Prerelease Flash-to-HTML5 Converter

KnightWRX said:
Adobe has been talking about this since they introduced CS5. I don't get why the few vocal "anti-Flash" crowd is so surprised by this. This has been Adobe's goal for a long time. They make money on dev tools, not runtimes. Who cares that the run time is some proprietary plug-in vs your standard HTML5 browser.

Stop reading only Apple news guys, you'll be better informed of what's going on in the tech world in general. ;)
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Adobe is the single most hated company on macrumors. Google and MS don't even come close even though Flash performance has improved on Macs and the latest generation of mobile devices other than Apples.
 
infidel69 said:
Adobe is the single most hated company on macrumors. Google and MS don't even come close even though Flash performance has improved on Macs and the latest generation of mobile devices other than Apples.
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Why is this?
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148a Safari/6533.18.5)

Alright- I'll buy into it.
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148a Safari/6533.18.5)

They killed LiveMotion which was the only competitor to Flash. They killed PageMaker. They killed GoLive.
 
If Adobe sent a pretty chick to every nerd's basement to give 'em a pizza and a BJ, most of the people here on MR would find something to complain about ('she's not holding my balls right'; 'I wanted thick crust'; etc. etc)
 
KnightWRX said:
Because they get their opinion from Steve.
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Wrong. Steve stated what we all felt.

But thanks for the silly argument.

UTclassof89 said:
If Adobe sent a pretty chick to every nerd's basement to give 'em a pizza and a BJ, most of the people here on MR would find something to complain about ('she's not holding my balls right'; 'I wanted thick crust'; etc. etc)
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I hope the crust is a reference to the pizza.
 
ten-oak-druid said:
Wrong. Steve stated what we all felt.

But thanks for the silly argument..
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You do know that Knight and I along with I am pretty sure many others can site example after example of opinion here magicly changing based on anything SJ says.

Go back to Intel. Day before hand around here it was Intel sucks PPC better, IMB rules. 5 mins after wards. Intel rules, IBM suck, PPC is crap. Intel is the future and so on.

Lets go to the next example. HP started preloading iTunes on all their computers. Boy there was some HP love after Steve made that annoucement and how HP was the best PC you could get out there. If you had to go Windows and PC you went HP.
Lets go for on Google. Around here Google was loved. The 2nd Google annouced they were doing Android it became a Google hate fest here saying how much Google suck and greedy yet before hand they were loved.
Adobe was liked and boom steve hates flash and boom Adobe sucks. I will tell you this if Adobe dropped OSX support it would hurt Apple more than Adobe. Those people will just go to Windows because they need Adobe what it provides.

I can easily find more examples if I really want to.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
You do know that Knight and I along with I am pretty sure many others can site example after example of opinion here magicly changing based on anything SJ says.

Go back to Intel. Day before hand around here it was Intel sucks PPC better, IMB rules. 5 mins after wards. Intel rules, IBM suck, PPC is crap. Intel is the future and so on.

Lets go to the next example. HP started preloading iTunes on all their computers. Boy there was some HP love after Steve made that annoucement and how HP was the best PC you could get out there. If you had to go Windows and PC you went HP.
Lets go for on Google. Around here Google was loved. The 2nd Google annouced they were doing Android it became a Google hate fest here saying how much Google suck and greedy yet before hand they were loved.
Adobe was liked and boom steve hates flash and boom Adobe sucks.
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Can you show that any of those people that fit your examples are in this thread? Otherwise, you are just stereotyping based on your own biases. There are the fringe crazies in any group. Most of the time, people ignore them. With Apple, they assume the opinions of the crazies apply to everyone. Isn't it amazing how some people come up on the negative side of every Apple-related argument?

I will tell you this if Adobe dropped OSX support it would hurt Apple more than Adobe. Those people will just go to Windows because they need Adobe what it provides.
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That's pretty funny. It might have a small effect on a minority of Apple's Mac business. Macs are about 20% of Apple's revenues now and a smaller percentage of their profits. Adobe gets about 25% of their revenue from Mac users.
 
ten-oak-druid said:
Wrong. Steve stated what we all felt.

But thanks for the silly argument.
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Pssst, didn't you know, that this automatically makes you a mindless fanboy ;)

Personally, it is not so much a hate towards Flash, but what many Web-Developers make out of it. If you travel a lot like me and have to spend many days in hotels (often in Asia) where internet connection is slow and you visit webpages to look for some quick information but have to fight through a jungle of flash animations which are thee just to bling the website, it get's annoying.


Not so much about the Fash Plug-in but one thing I noticed a loooong while ago about .flv videos: I downloaded a few .flv video files and played it on my laptop with Adobe's Media Player and then played the same file again using (I think it was) VLC, the difference in CPU usage was VERY significant.
 
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BaldiMac said:
That's pretty funny. It might have a small effect on a minority of Apple's Mac business. Macs are about 20% of Apple's revenues now and a smaller percentage of their profits. Adobe gets about 25% of their revenue from Mac users.
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percentage wise I think Apple does not give a damage about their pro market any longer and those guys would be better of switching to windows any how.

But in total revenue and profit lost Apple would loss a lot more than Adobe would. While yes 25% of Adobe revenue comes off mac users I am willing to bet 20+% of them would go over to Windows in a heart beat if Adobe left OSX. They would go screaming and complaining but they would go to windows because that is were the tools they need are at.

We have several design people on these boards. Lee has even stated his entire company is thinking about switching over from OSX to Windows due to cost and better computers and support at this point in that world.

So yes it would hurt Apple more.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
So yes it would hurt Apple more.
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Based on what? What percentage of Mac revenues come from professional users? What percentage of them are tied to Adobe products? How long would they wait to upgrade their Adobe products to maintain their current Mac workflow? What percentage of their Macs will they keep anyway?

You seem awfully sure of your claim for not knowing the answer to any of these questions.
 
BaldiMac said:
Based on what? What percentage of Mac revenues come from professional users? What percentage of them are tied to Adobe products? How long would they wait to upgrade their Adobe products to maintain their current Mac workflow? What percentage of their Macs will they keep anyway?

You seem awfully sure of your claim for not knowing the answer to any of these questions.
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do not need to know those.

25% of Adobe like you said goes to OSX.

So that means roughly 25% of Adobe users are mac users.

If 20% of them leave for windows that means out of every 20 out of ever 25 pro level users are gone.
Total revenue profit loss will be higher for Apple than Adobe. Simple as that.
We are talking gross numbers here. Just because Apple no longer cares about Pro level users and it is a fraction of their business Apple is still loosing more profit and users than Adobe is.
The only group we are conserned about is that 25%.

20 >5.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
do not need to know those.

25% of Adobe like you said goes to OSX.

So that means roughly 25% of Adobe users are mac users.

If 20% of them leave for windows that means out of every 20 out of ever 25 pro level users are gone.
Total revenue profit loss will be higher for Apple than Adobe. Simple as that.
We are talking gross numbers here. Just because Apple no longer cares about Pro level users and it is a fraction of their business Apple is still loosing more profit and users than Adobe is.
The only group we are conserned about is that 25%.

20 >5.
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That's some messed up logic. Starting with the fact that you made up the 20% number. And that 20% of 25% is somehow 20%. And your assumption that a user is of equal value to Adobe and Apple.

And since "we are talking gross numbers here," why would we ignore that Adobe's gross margins are three times Apple's margins on Macs? So even with your made up numbers, we are talking about "20" compared to "15," not "5."
 
Rodimus Prime said:
Adobe was liked and boom steve hates flash and boom Adobe sucks.
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I have been using OSX for the last four years. For that entire time I have heard complaints over the quality of the Flash plug-in. FlashBlockers weren't invented as a result of Steves comments last year, but rather out of a need that pre-dates any statement from SJ on the topic.
If anything, Apple's position seems to have inspired Adobe to "try harder" in the non-windows space.

Unless you want to claim that Flash does not have a legacy of poor and unstable performance on OSX, your claim of flip-flopping is meaningless.

Also, this discusion is about Flash, not Adobe products in general. Please let's try and maintain the proper context.

BaldiMac said:
That's some messed up logic.
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Careful... Your being goaded into a strawman argument attempting to equate a dissatisfaction with Adobes handling of the OSX Flash plug-in with a generalized statement of "Adobe Corp Sucks".
 
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stationstops said:
the legacy flv video format, which any sane content provider abandoned long ago
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Ummm, when I download a video from Youtube, it's still usually a .flv file so this notion that all websites have abandoned .flv format files is bunk.

However, the good news is they will now have the ability to.

While I was accused of being a FLASH apologist, my biggest gripe with Apple & Adobe was that there are/were still so many websites, news, weather radar sites, cartoon sites, commercial sites like Nike, etc. that simply are totally designed from the ground up in Flash or were and simply were not viewable on an iPhone or iPad.

This changes everything hopefully.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
You do know that Knight and I along with I am pretty sure many others can site example after example of opinion here magicly changing based on anything SJ says.

Go back to Intel. Day before hand around here it was Intel sucks PPC better, IMB rules. 5 mins after wards. Intel rules, IBM suck, PPC is crap. Intel is the future and so on.

Lets go to the next example. HP started preloading iTunes on all their computers. Boy there was some HP love after Steve made that annoucement and how HP was the best PC you could get out there. If you had to go Windows and PC you went HP.
Lets go for on Google. Around here Google was loved. The 2nd Google annouced they were doing Android it became a Google hate fest here saying how much Google suck and greedy yet before hand they were loved.
Adobe was liked and boom steve hates flash and boom Adobe sucks. I will tell you this if Adobe dropped OSX support it would hurt Apple more than Adobe. Those people will just go to Windows because they need Adobe what it provides.

I can easily find more examples if I really want to.
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I can see you are very upset about your perception of others' opinions. You have apparently spent a very long time on this site cataloging these opinions that bother you so much. I think what you need to do is ask yourself if it is worth your time doing this regardless of whether you are wrong or right. Think of the other things you could have done.

Consider counseling. Sometimes it is difficult to modify behavior. It is almost an addiction.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
You do know that Knight and I along with I am pretty sure many others can site example after example of opinion here magicly changing based on anything SJ says.
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You might want to try citing actual specific examples (i.e. provide links to supporting quotes, sources, etc.) rather than your summarized, non-specific examples in order to properly bolster your argument.
 
dejo said:
You might want to try citing actual specific examples (i.e. provide links to supporting quotes, sources, etc.) rather than your summarized, non-specific examples in order to properly bolster your argument.
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Keep in mind; even if he can provide specific examples of people waffling over other issues as a result of comments from Jobs, it doesn't change the history of the Flash plug-in on OS X.

In order to establish his claim that people are simply following Apple's on THIS issue, all he needs to demonstrate is a general satisfaction with the Flash plug-in from the Mac community prior to Steve's letter on Flash. However this could be a difficult task. :rolleyes:
 
I hope the code isn't as bloated as Dreamweaver HTML was... That said, this is a step in the right direction for Adobe. Supporting web standards is the only way forward.
 
"bloated Dreamweaver code" is another myth that for some reason has traction around here.
Dreamweaver is renowned amongst WYSIWYG editors for its clean HTML.
 
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