Adobe Executive Kevin Lynch Discusses Flash on Mac, iPhone, and iPad

[MisterK]

Flash will probably never make it to iProducts

We'll probably never see Flash on the iPhone or iPad and it has nothing to do with how great or lousy Flash is. It has everything to do with Apple monetizing. They want you playing Farmville and Bejewelled APPS (where they get a cut from the App store) and not playing them online for free. That simple.

I hope Apple and Adobe can make peace, in spite of this, because the worst thing in the world would be for Adobe to stop making products for the Mac. I'm one of the biggest Mac lovers in the world, but I'd have to stop using it if they stopped making Illustrator and Photoshop (and Dreamweaver, Acrobat, Lightroom and Flash) on my Mac. I hope Apple doesn't forget their design roots with all the consumer level success they're having. I'd have to switch to Windows.

 

[TheSlush]

I hope Apple and Adobe can make peace, in spite of this, because the worst thing in the world would be for Adobe to stop making products for the Mac. I'm one of the biggest Mac lovers in the world, but I'd have to stop using it if they stopped making Illustrator and Photoshop (and Dreamweaver, Acrobat, Lightroom and Flash) on my Mac. I hope Apple doesn't forget their design roots with all the consumer level success they're having. I'd have to switch to Windows.

As a designer, I rely on Adobe software in my work too. Despite all these jabs about the Flash runtime, I can't imagine we have anything to worry about on the major creative software packages disappearing from the Mac. These two companies directly enrich each other too much (via their overlapping consumer audience) for their spat to get to that level.

 

[pubwvj]

Adobe is missing the point.
It is not just that Flash is a resource hot.
I don't want Flash because there is no content to justify it.
Almost everything that I see using Flash is advertising or useless distracting glitz.
Flash takes away from the real content.
Ick.

 

[drake]

Tried to watch the video but it crashed.

 

[devinci99]

Seriously. How ridiculous is it going to be when silverlight AND bing are the defaults that work well on our macs over adobe and google?

I can't believe he has the balls to say flash doesn't crash macs. I've NEVER in the past 5-10 years, as far back as I can remember, had a single full mac crash where flash wasn't present. At first it would just crash safari and I could force quit that, but more and more recently it's actually been crashing my entire computer, something that never was an issue with Mac since, I don't now, 12 or 15 years ago????

If it crashes the browser, it may likely be an issue with Flash player.

If it crashes your entire MacOS X system then it's a combination of the 2. The O/S kernel is suppose to offer a trap that prevents programs from causing an O/S crash. Especially a BSD kernel! It is suppose to prevent this then isolate it problem process and kill it, hopefully with a core dump. In general anyway.

Being that it crashes the kernel (therefore the O/S) could also means the kernel needs some patching to better handle this.

 

[Compile 'em all]

If it crashes the browser, it may likely be an issue with Flash player.

If it crashes your entire MacOS X system then it's a combination of the 2. The O/S kernel is suppose to offer a trap that prevents programs from causing an O/S crash. Especially a BSD kernel! It is suppose to prevent this then isolate it problem process and kill it, hopefully with a core dump. In general anyway.

Being that it crashes the kernel (therefore the O/S) could also means the kernel needs some patching to better handle this.

Snow Leopard sandboxes Flash now.

 

[JackAxe]

For mobile devices like the iPad and iPhone, it's all about battery life.

Flash causes increased CPU usage.
Increased CPU usage causes a faster battery drain.
Faster battery drain causes end-users to complain about the device.

Hey, that sounds like any application I download from the App store that's a bit more than just boring.

 

[devinci99]

Snow Leopard sandboxes Flash now.

wooohooo.

he can upgrade to snow leopard!

 

[macUser2007]

The reaction from Apple regarding Adobe is the pure definition of hypocrisy:

1. They say "we don't wan't flash because they are lazy and we're forward thinking with HTML5" > A week after Jobs declare "It's too early for us to adopt Blu-Ray as we feel the market isn't ready" when most platform, devices and more over Adobe Platfrom is compatible with Blu-Ray

2. They say "they are ahead of the game and just making a move others will do after" > Flash is coming to Android, Palm and Windows7 Mobile...

3. They say "we don't need flash today thanks to HTML5, for exemple on Youtube"> 75%+ of videos and games are still in Flash, like thousands of websites, because developpers choose this plateform and should be forced to do otherwise if they don't wan't too.

3. They say "Flash is obsolete and is buggy" > Heck they couldn't even a proper internet page during their own presentation and had to fake some picture of the iPad !

4. They say "We already have youtube and the appstore, especially for ebook" > Most digital and interactive magasine and ebooks are in Flash or developped for Adobe Air as showed recently by WIRED

PS: Otherwise I agree HTML5 is the best alternative but when you know that 75% of people still use Internet Explorer, some people are just being has hypocrit as Apple

This is a great post, as opposed to all the whining from the "I turned off my Flash and I am so cool now" basement-dwellers.

Good points, all on target. HTML5 is a good step forward, but Flash is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

Flash and HTML5 are complimentary in many ways, and together can make the web experience even better for most of us.

Apple really needs to get its head out of its a$$ and work with Adobe to get us Flash.

 

[Darkroom]

while Flash CS4's runtime inverse kinematics is amazing, HTML5 is MIA.

 

[bossxii]

We'll probably never see Flash on the iPhone or iPad and it has nothing to do with how great or lousy Flash is. It has everything to do with Apple monetizing. They want you playing Farmville and Bejewelled APPS (where they get a cut from the App store) and not playing them online for free. That simple.

I hope Apple and Adobe can make peace, in spite of this, because the worst thing in the world would be for Adobe to stop making products for the Mac. I'm one of the biggest Mac lovers in the world, but I'd have to stop using it if they stopped making Illustrator and Photoshop (and Dreamweaver, Acrobat, Lightroom and Flash) on my Mac. I hope Apple doesn't forget their design roots with all the consumer level success they're having. I'd have to switch to Windows.

Have you even looked at Apple's financials? The app store revenue is less than 15% (I think 1.2b of 15.7b revenue last Qtr 2009) of Apple revenue stream. If they were only blocking flash to protect app store profits, why would they allow any developer to give away FREE apps? The app store is there to SELL HARDWARE. Apple is a hardware company, if they felt adding flash would not kill battery life, cause crashes, resets and create a less than stellar user experience it would be there.

Just as Mozilla has disabled flash from Firefox mobile due to subpar performance. I'll have to find the source, but a recent article they were quoted saying flash degraded the performance to a point they felt unacceptable for their mobile browser.

 

[jettredmont]

I'd like to know who the "top websites" are, and how many there are of which 85% use flash. It seems a bit of a throw away statement.

I think that if you include the use of an ad network which allows Flash-based ads in its rotation, then that 85% figure is most likely accurate.

If you are talking about web sites where flash is central to the experience, the only one I visit with regularity is Hulu. YouTube comes in just fine without Flash wrapping the video in a CPU heating element.

So, yeah, I think the "85%" figure comes from a very generous definition of "use" and "site".

 

[iMaggot]

I hate flash as much as the next guy, but the problem is most of the sites i like run on flash and that makes the iPad useless to me.

 

[petsounds]

If it crashes the browser, it may likely be an issue with Flash player.

If it crashes your entire MacOS X system then it's a combination of the 2. The O/S kernel is suppose to offer a trap that prevents programs from causing an O/S crash. Especially a BSD kernel! It is suppose to prevent this then isolate it problem process and kill it, hopefully with a core dump. In general anyway.

Being that it crashes the kernel (therefore the O/S) could also means the kernel needs some patching to better handle this.

I've never seen Flash cause a kernel panic. I've seen some open source software do that (which is probably accessing the hardware directly), but generally this is a symptom of a hardware defect. Usually bad/cheap RAM on the mainboard or the video card.

 

[Maserati7200]

I don't know who is to blame - Apple or Adobe, but it's good that this "discussion" is getting a lot of publicity. We might, finally, see an improvement.

Is that a joke? It's obviously adobe. Apple didn't write the buggy/resource happy flash plug in, Adobe did. Therefore, it's Adobe's fault. Since Adobe isn't fixing it, they should try and phase it out .

 

[jettredmont]

Everyone is so against Adobe, but I'm not siding with Apple on this one. I've read that Flash isn't as good on the Mac because Apple hasn't programmed the right API's or given the right level of access for Flash to use hardware acceleration. Of course the CPU is going to take a hit if Flash can't do that. The iPhone, iPad, and all Macs have nice graphics chips, and I bet if they made it possible for Adobe to use them, Flash would be a non-issue.

No.

First, Apple has an acceleration API, it's called QuickTime or CoreVideo. You want acceleration, you use the API. Adobe wants to have direct hardware access like Microsoft gives them on Windows. That's a system stability nightmare, and I'm glad Apple isn't giving it to them.

Second, hardware acceleration is VERY new on the Windows side, as in: not even shipping in general release yet. It's just available in a beta 10.1. Performance of Flash on the Mac has sucked for a good decade, and the gap has gotten wider with every release. Adobe just hasn't put any development effort into optimizing for the Mac. Way back when, the explanation was that the PPC just couldn't handle it. Today they claim that it's lack of access to the video card. But, what has the reason been for the past 3 years, Flash running on Mac/Intel without hardware acceleration on Windows either? Why has the Windows side been many times less demanding for simple apps and videos, and less likely to crash the browser?

No, Adobe is spinning here. It's not about acceleration, and it never was. It's all about Adobe having written off OS X a few years back, downsizing their Mac dev teams, and not wanting to devote resources to the "minor" market share.

That's fine. That's their prerogative. But if you're going to write off Apple, don't be surprised when Apple writes off you.

 

[danny_w]

I think that if you include the use of an ad network which allows Flash-based ads in its rotation, then that 85% figure is most likely accurate.

If you are talking about web sites where flash is central to the experience, the only one I visit with regularity is Hulu. YouTube comes in just fine without Flash wrapping the video in a CPU heating element.

So, yeah, I think the "85%" figure comes from a very generous definition of "use" and "site".

How do you setup youtube to not use flash on the Mac? It always uses flash on mine. On the TV, iPhone, and iPod Touch it uses H.264 but not on the desktop Safari.

 

[gibbz]

How do you setup youtube to not use flash on the Mac? It always uses flash on mine. On the TV, iPhone, and iPod Touch it uses H.264 but not on the desktop Safari.

http://youtube.com/html5

opt into their beta

 

[*LTD*]

Flash is DEAD.

 

[kdarling]

I don't want Flash because there is no content to justify it. Almost everything that I see using Flash is advertising or useless distracting glitz.

Flash is important to parents. Almost every kids' game site runs off Flash.

What are these websites that you guys visit all the time that have so much Flash advertising? I never see much.

Besides, I'd rather have something I could turn off than have them switch to HTML5 based ads that I can't. Be careful what you wish for.

For mobile devices like the iPad and iPhone, it's all about battery life.
Flash causes increased CPU usage.
Increased CPU usage causes a faster battery drain.
Faster battery drain causes end-users to complain about the device.

End users understand portable battery issues. It's part and parcel of everyday life, from a flashlight to a portable radio or iPod.

People already have to manage battery via 3G usage, Bluetooth on/off, WiFi on/off, backlight brightness, and push on/off... not to mention deciding if they want to use Slingplayer or other streaming apps.

Good points, all on target. HTML5 is a good step forward, but Flash is here to stay for the foreseeable future.

Exactly. Interestingly, Microsoft's MIX meeting is going to be having many conferences about the importance of HTML5 in the future... yet they're still working with Adobe for the present.

 

[*LTD*]

Apple really needs to get its head out of its a$$ and work with Adobe to get us Flash.

Apple has decided not to, and users don't care.

If you're using Flash to publish media, it's time to consider other options.

Flash is dead. The iPad is its tombstone.

 

[satcomer]

Well watch the Sublime HTML 5 video and see if it performs as well on your Macs as it did on my Mac Pro.

 

[ungraphic]

Flash is DEAD.

Don't kid yourself, flash is far from dead. Last time I checked (today) an impressive amount of website use flash.

 

[ikramerica]

It's all about Adobe having written off OS X a few years back, downsizing their Mac dev teams, and not wanting to devote resources to the "minor" market share.

That's fine. That's their prerogative. But if you're going to write off Apple, don't be surprised when Apple writes off you.

Best summary of the day. Adobe's Mac support has been pitiful. They took forever to move to PPC native, forever to add G4 acceleration, forever to go OS X native, forever to go Intel native, etc. They honestly don't give a damn about the speed of their software on the Mac, just continue to upgrade it "eventually" to satisfy those silly diehards who refuse to leave the OS X platform, throw out all their investment in hardware and software, and simply switch to Windows already.

With Flash plug in, because there is no money in it for them, they really don't care about optimizing flash decoding on OS X. It's ridiculously cumbersome. Just compare Silverlight, QT streaming and Flash video. On my Hackintosh netbook, flash video crawls, QT does well, and Silverlight works well enough (despite being "fooled" into working on the Atom). Sure, on more powerful software, Flash runs without stuttering, but it uses most of the processor, drives the fans of your macbook hard, makes multitasking difficult, etc. That's Adobe's fault. This doesn't happen with any other software I have...

It's so bad that Apple has a special error window that pops up when Flash apps are going off the reservation. It warns that the flash app is using ridiculous amounts of resources and asks if you want to quit it. No other application/plug-in for OS X has such a custom warning written for it. Or if it has, I've never seen it. What does that tell you about how well Adobe optimizes their software?

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Well watch the Sublime HTML 5 video and see if it performs as well on your Macs as it did on my Mac Pro.

Yes.