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Adobe Issues Premiere Pro Fix for Bug That Caused Blown-Out MacBook Pro Speakers
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Well, if they are sending 1’s and 0’s to the analog speaker, there’s your problem right there
Whatever the bug was, it’s apple’s fault if sending bad data to the DAC can cause the speakers to blow.
Well, if they are sending 1’s and 0’s to the analog speaker, there’s your problem right there
Whatever the bug was, it’s apple’s fault if sending bad data to the DAC can cause the speakers to blow.
[JOKE]
Well... sending 1's and 0's to the speaker would probably produce a square wave. Should not be a problem either
[/JOKE]
But jokes aside, I agree, software is using Apple's API's and should never be able to damage the hardware.
Physical structures (such as a glass or the old Tacoma Narrows bridge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Narrows_Bridge_(1940) have resonance frequencies that causes catastrophic failure. I'm not sure all possible combinations of sound frequencies that cause failure can be determined analytically.
I think for the sake of good P.R. if nothing else, Adobe should step up and offer to compensate people for the repair cost if this happened to them. (It's such an odd repair, it'd be pretty difficult for Adobe to claim the people having new Macbook Pros in the shop for speaker replacement had nothing to do with their product causing it -- especially if those were the same people who own Creative Cloud active subscriptions for Premiere Pro!)
That said? I also think it's poor hardware design to allow software to blow the speakers on a computer. Loud distortion or feedback noises will damage any speaker -- but it has to be loud enough to push the speaker past its limits. I've heard of software blowing laptop speakers before in an instance or two, but I recall it being fixed via firmware that put an upper limit on the speaker volume that kept it under the threshold where it could cause damage.
In other words? Adobe caused the problem here, BUT Apple could have designed the MB Pro so the speakers weren't possible to play at levels high enough to risk physical damage if distortion was present.
That said? I also think it's poor hardware design to allow software to blow the speakers on a computer. Loud distortion or feedback noises will damage any speaker -- but it has to be loud enough to push the speaker past its limits. I've heard of software blowing laptop speakers before in an instance or two, but I recall it being fixed via firmware that put an upper limit on the speaker volume that kept it under the threshold where it could cause damage.
In other words? Adobe caused the problem here, BUT Apple could have designed the MB Pro so the speakers weren't possible to play at levels high enough to risk physical damage if distortion was present.
Every loudspeaker and enclosure have resonance frequencies as well, but this should never result in physical damage. Audible distortion? Probably. But physical damage: only when the speaker/amp/dac combination is so badly designed that it starts clipping (or the amplifier is to powerful for the speakers).
If what you imply is true, that should mean that every loudspeaker could be damaged if you play the wrong music on it. Clearly that is not the case.
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This is true, too. The entire design of the new Macbook and Pro line is a big slap in the face to anyone supporting "Right to Repair" laws, and I feel like Apple did it on purpose.
You can't have anything on these new machines repaired without paying a minimum of $500-600 for entire assemblies to be replaced. Bad trackpad? Whole new top case assembly? Bad keyboard? Whole new top case assembly? Touchbar stops working? Whole new top case assembly AND possibly new logic board. Bad microphone? Yep .... same.
You can't have anything on these new machines repaired without paying a minimum of $500-600 for entire assemblies to be replaced. Bad trackpad? Whole new top case assembly? Bad keyboard? Whole new top case assembly? Touchbar stops working? Whole new top case assembly AND possibly new logic board. Bad microphone? Yep .... same.
No, Apple should step up and dont even ask their customers to pay for it. It is absurb that speakers cannot be replaced easily and it is absurb that apple hasnt fixed the issue since they first noticed it in 2016 using their own code.
there is no reason to blame adobe. if apple has released documentation that certain code can explode their laptops, then you can blame adobe using that kind of code on purpose - otherwise apple should take responsibility of it. but hey, this is probably the first time they even hear about it!
If your software causes an unexpected full level output then I think you should be responsible for any damage down the line.
Many music studios use active speakers. They only have a power amp, with no volume control. The volume is controlled by varying the level of output from your audio interface, which is often done by a software monitor controller. If that software fails and send out full volume, there is actually no way to turn down the active speakers.
I’ve since incorporated a passive monitor controller between my audio interface and active speakers for that exact reason, to limit the levels coming out of my audio interface if there is a software failure. But many many people don’t have that extra piece of equipment, which is really only being required if the software fails.
Many music studios use active speakers. They only have a power amp, with no volume control. The volume is controlled by varying the level of output from your audio interface, which is often done by a software monitor controller. If that software fails and send out full volume, there is actually no way to turn down the active speakers.
I’ve since incorporated a passive monitor controller between my audio interface and active speakers for that exact reason, to limit the levels coming out of my audio interface if there is a software failure. But many many people don’t have that extra piece of equipment, which is really only being required if the software fails.
“Right to repair” doesn’t mean “easily repairable.” It means the parts must be made available and you have to be allowed to have it repaired by someone other than the manufacturer. I’m aware of no laws that say that the design of the device has to be such that each piece is individually socketed for easy replacement.
The issue I have with “macOS” is it’s simply to stir nostalgia for The older originally 1.0-9.x Mac OS.
This system we’ve been using for 13yrs is OS X! Same kernel and core it’s NOTHINg like the older Mac OS and for good reason. It’s suposed to last for 20yrs according to Jobs before his passing.
It’s Mac OS X or OS X. Not a pig but same bird with different makeup on its face.
That is not how software works. I can ask my software to do whatever, the hardware is the limiter, not software. You can’t blame software when it’s actually doing a work around to fix a hardware bug.
If you still aren’t convinced, just go to the MacBook Pro forum to see how many people had speaker blow out issues which had nothing to do with Adobe. The hardware bug meant it was vulnerable to blowing out in many circumstances.
^maybe we are talking about different issues.
I have had bugs in software cause the audio output from my computer jump to maximum. As I said on my Metric Halo interface the monitor controller would do this. It was a repeatable bug.
Adding a character plugin to the master buss would trigger the bug. It wasn’t hardware related.
I have had bugs in software cause the audio output from my computer jump to maximum. As I said on my Metric Halo interface the monitor controller would do this. It was a repeatable bug.
Adding a character plugin to the master buss would trigger the bug. It wasn’t hardware related.
Does anyone know if Adobe Premiere uses their own audio drivers (kexts) or do they utilise hardware access via Apple's own drivers? If it is the former, and there is no Apple between Premiere and the hardware, then it could be said that Adobe is a fault. If however Adobe was utilising the hardware in a manner prescribed by Apple (by way of the Apple audio drivers, and using Apple's audio API) then it isn't as clear as to who should be responsible for the issue.
Going to max volume due to a software bug isn’t an issue, the speaker dying as a result of being able to be set to a volume the hardware can’t handle is a hardware issue, not a software issue 100%.
I can write poor software which sets volume incorrectly, that doesn’t justify the speakers blowing out.
There's a reason I'm hanging onto my late-2013 and haven't thought about upgrading.
I'm really hoping Apple releases redesigned better Macbooks before my 2013 bites the dust.
Then you miss out on lots of good professionals and you are severely limiting your choice. Something a true professional, hiring people, would never do.
I don't know any professional who would call Adobe 'junkware' either.
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There actually are two problems, both of which Apple should be faulted for.
I am fairly confident the speaker system Apple is using has to have been tested for how much SPL can cause damage. (If that wasn't tested, shame on Apple.) The idea that "loud audio" could damage the speakers still seems unexcusable. It's so easy to add a simple limiter or compressor to the audio chain such that audio that would exceed the maximum rated SPL is clipped or compressed. You mean to tell me Apple didn't consider that someone might want to listen to some heavy metal or hard rock at high volume on their MacBook speakers? Even my el-cheapo $200 HP laptop has obvious compression going on in the audio engine, such that when I try to play extremely loud audio it's clearly being limited when playing on the internal speakers.
At the same time, it's also BS that Apple designs their machines to be unrepairable. Designing any product such that a part which can be damaged cannot be replaced is just as irresponsible as not adding safeguards to help prevent that damage in the first place.
Imagine if you bought a car that has electronic adjustable seats. Now imagine that if you press the button to adjust the seat and you keep holding it down, it adjusts too far backwards and a part of the seat frame cracks and the seat is permanently damaged. Now also imagine that the seat frame is directly welded to the car's main chassis, so the only way to fix the broken seat is to replace the entire chassis. Not only should the car have prevented you from adjusting the seat to a point where damage could occur, but the seat should be replaceable should that preventative measure fail.
Honestly, I think Apple should cover these damages. It's easy to blame Adobe, but that's like blaming the driver for trying to adjust their seat too far back. There are two separate blunders Apple made in this situation - the speakers not being appropriately tested for their damage point and reasonable safeguards put into place for preventing that, and the design of the system such that it's not possible to replace the component which could be damaged.
At one time I used to say "software is incapable of damaging hardware". The one notable exception used to be certain graphics cards and CRTs, where the graphics card could drive the CRT into an overload, but even that was relatively farfetched and later CRTs added measures to prevent it.
I am fairly confident the speaker system Apple is using has to have been tested for how much SPL can cause damage. (If that wasn't tested, shame on Apple.) The idea that "loud audio" could damage the speakers still seems unexcusable. It's so easy to add a simple limiter or compressor to the audio chain such that audio that would exceed the maximum rated SPL is clipped or compressed. You mean to tell me Apple didn't consider that someone might want to listen to some heavy metal or hard rock at high volume on their MacBook speakers? Even my el-cheapo $200 HP laptop has obvious compression going on in the audio engine, such that when I try to play extremely loud audio it's clearly being limited when playing on the internal speakers.
At the same time, it's also BS that Apple designs their machines to be unrepairable. Designing any product such that a part which can be damaged cannot be replaced is just as irresponsible as not adding safeguards to help prevent that damage in the first place.
Imagine if you bought a car that has electronic adjustable seats. Now imagine that if you press the button to adjust the seat and you keep holding it down, it adjusts too far backwards and a part of the seat frame cracks and the seat is permanently damaged. Now also imagine that the seat frame is directly welded to the car's main chassis, so the only way to fix the broken seat is to replace the entire chassis. Not only should the car have prevented you from adjusting the seat to a point where damage could occur, but the seat should be replaceable should that preventative measure fail.
Honestly, I think Apple should cover these damages. It's easy to blame Adobe, but that's like blaming the driver for trying to adjust their seat too far back. There are two separate blunders Apple made in this situation - the speakers not being appropriately tested for their damage point and reasonable safeguards put into place for preventing that, and the design of the system such that it's not possible to replace the component which could be damaged.
At one time I used to say "software is incapable of damaging hardware". The one notable exception used to be certain graphics cards and CRTs, where the graphics card could drive the CRT into an overload, but even that was relatively farfetched and later CRTs added measures to prevent it.
This happened to my 2018 MBP 15", and I don't have Bootcamp or Premiere. As stated by others in this thread, it's clearly a hardware/driver problem, and Adobe has just issued a patch to prevent their particular software triggering the issue.
I guess it's just a matter of time until it happens again, unless Apple can issue a proper fix. Six months of warranty left, and I just realized that it's not possible anymore to add AppleCare+ to a new Mac later than 60 days after purchase…
Nice. We're talking about a 3 600 € professional laptop here.
I guess it's just a matter of time until it happens again, unless Apple can issue a proper fix. Six months of warranty left, and I just realized that it's not possible anymore to add AppleCare+ to a new Mac later than 60 days after purchase…
Nice. We're talking about a 3 600 € professional laptop here.