Have you been following the linux video progress much recently? I seriously doubt any enthusiast would agree with your '10 implementations for everything'. Adobe using VAAPI would be great for many reasons, least of all the improvement of flash video cpu usage.
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Adobe Launches Flash Player 10.1 Prerelease Build
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Have you been following the linux video progress much recently? I seriously doubt any enthusiast would agree with your '10 implementations for everything'. Adobe using VAAPI would be great for many reasons, least of all the improvement of flash video cpu usage.
Api
And Apple has OpenGL & OpenCL APIs, and yes they are available to everyone. Adobe could offload code to the GPU on a Mac if they really wanted to, they just aren't putting forth the effort. I'm betting they just develop one set of code for Windoze and recompile for the other platforms. For Mac and Linux it would require re-writing the DirectX stuff, and I bet they're not willing to do that.
All of that is academic however, since offloading to the GPU does not solve Flash's inherent inefficiency. That's just moving the hog to another pen. Flash is a resource hog, slow and bloated. It needs a complete re-write from the ground up. Oh, hey, that's what H.264 is (joke).
And Apple has OpenGL & OpenCL APIs, and yes they are available to everyone. Adobe could offload code to the GPU on a Mac if they really wanted to, they just aren't putting forth the effort. I'm betting they just develop one set of code for Windoze and recompile for the other platforms. For Mac and Linux it would require re-writing the DirectX stuff, and I bet they're not willing to do that.
All of that is academic however, since offloading to the GPU does not solve Flash's inherent inefficiency. That's just moving the hog to another pen. Flash is a resource hog, slow and bloated. It needs a complete re-write from the ground up. Oh, hey, that's what H.264 is (joke).
I prefer the HTML5 one. YouTube is a video site, and the content should be a video tag - it's exactly how the page structure should be organized and in this regard, HTML5 should replace Flash.
But as a web developer, which would I implement currently? I would choose Flash because that's will guarantee delivery to 95% of the users out there. I might do a HTML5 branch, but I can't bill my clients for that (unless they specify in the first place)!
PS. The html5 demo's video quality is lower than the flash one. It's also broken on Firefox 3.6b1.
Here is the kicker, Apparently Safari 4 farms out the video tag to QuickTime( http://sandfly.net.nz/blog/2009/06/safari-4-is-pretty-good/), so I wonder how a GPU accelerated Flash would compare to QuickTime.
Again, video is not Flash's only redeeming quality. It has a good language, it pretty much guarantees compatibility across platforms, evolves faster, so it won't die any time soon.
At least Silverlight runs decent on a Mac. I'll take Silverlight over Flash content any day and that's saying something!hahah lol.
Now let's say Flash IS dead.. the first thing come up closer to Flash would be MS Silverlight. Hey that's another (un)original technology from MS.
zomg! for all people gather here, in this very "mac" forum, wishing Flash to die?
Same result here too - went from ~25fps to ~19fps after installing 10.1
Octo-core 2.8Ghz late 2008 mac pro 8gb ram, SL 10.6.2
typical bunch of crap I expect from Adobe these days..
Post your results guys:
http://www.craftymind.com/factory/guimark/GUIMark_Flex3.html
I can't since I'm on a venerable PPC machine (Powermac G4 - still going strong!).
I still don't believe the hype. The same they have said about the 10.0 version - better performance bla bla bla - and here we go 450% on a Mac Freaking Pro.
I have not updated yet, but my average FPS before are: 29.19 (10,0,32,18 installed). I also never have my fans rev up, or feel like the cpu has taken a hit. We'll see what happens after.
None, this is just the usual FUD spread by Apple haters...Adobe is simply incompetent or, better yet, in bad faith.
LOL @ People who use Click2Flash and say Flash is Dead.
Why don't you just UNINSTALL flash!!!???
Oh that's right you can't .. because you still wanna have it JUST IN CASE
Now, wait a minute. I've been reading this thread with a lot of patience, and amusement, but what you just said is unfair. I too use Clickt2Flash, mainly because I hate all those ads, but also because Flash is a resource hog. My Mac crashes once in a while when accessing a Flash-loaded page, otherwise it is very stable. This is certainly not Apple's fault.
I don't uninstall Flash because I don't need to. Thanks to Clickt2Flash!
As to the matter of Adobe being dead, the expression must be taken metaphorically. I think it is clear that CS applications are no longer as important and indispensable as they used to be. And Photoshop for once fails for some years to bring us real innovation. This is not a matter of Adobe being dead, it is perhaps a matter of no longer having the talent or the resources to drive the industry.
Anyway we shall see what tomorrow brings.
Peace.
[sorry for my broken english, it is far from being my native tongue]
LMAO at some people over here!
Hahahahahahaha
OK...
Lets imagine 100% of computer and mobile market first...
Then, lets imagine 5% of it (yes that's us Mac users)
Now - lets imagine handful of guys out of that 5% who are foaming on their mouth while talking about spinning fans on their machines, some problems they are having with animated adverts (as if they never had problems with animated GIFs before Flash replaced them!) and other nonsense such as unidentified flying sausages in their garden, lack of health care in their country and pot of melted ice cream in their freezer that clearly is all due to Adobe and Flash...
I mean ---> ROFL!
Flash rocked yesterday...
Flash is rocking today...
Flash will CERTAINLY rock tomorrow too - with or without you!
Have a bite of
and chill out guys!
Hahahahahahaha
OK...
Lets imagine 100% of computer and mobile market first...
Then, lets imagine 5% of it (yes that's us Mac users)
Now - lets imagine handful of guys out of that 5% who are foaming on their mouth while talking about spinning fans on their machines, some problems they are having with animated adverts (as if they never had problems with animated GIFs before Flash replaced them!) and other nonsense such as unidentified flying sausages in their garden, lack of health care in their country and pot of melted ice cream in their freezer that clearly is all due to Adobe and Flash...
I mean ---> ROFL!
Flash rocked yesterday...
Flash is rocking today...
Flash will CERTAINLY rock tomorrow too - with or without you!
Have a bite of
and chill out guys!
Anyone who buys into this BS knows nothing about operating system design.
Sorry Adobe, but you can deal with published public API calls both from Apple Cocoa Frameworks and from GNOME's GTK+ Libraries.
Your desire to use private APIs that are subject to change and binary code injected into the Kernel as Linus Torvalds would say, ``contaminate the Linux Kernel with proprietary binary code'' are both unprofessional and a security risk begging to happen.
Who in their right mind wants Flash running at a high priority, other than Adobe? Fix your garbage code you spent billions in acquiring Adobe.
This lame excuse that GTK+ and Linux doesn't have a Linux Standards Base set ready is a red herring. Apple will never compromise their design for this and Adobe is misinforming the public at a weak attempt of leverage.
Then again, Microsoft giving you access to their private APIs and injecting your code level at a higher priority is not surprising--they fundamentally have a different philosophy.
Oh, O.K., since you say so....
I suppose we should take the word of a fanboy, over what Anendtech explicitly states.
And I suppose you blame Adobe too, for the iPhone being the only major mobile platform for which Flash 10 is not coming....
Bleh.
As someone who infinitely prefers HTML5 to Flash, I still think it will take many more years for HTML5 functionality (from the developer perspective) to approach that of Flash.
BUT what amazes me here is that so few people are rightly criticizing Apple. Hardware accelerated H264 decoding has been available in graphics chipsets for years, and exposed and available to our Windows brethren. Apple has dragged its heels with driver development for years, giving us last-generation graphics cards with many features not available, H264 decoding being a prime example. And yet only a few people here are asking why, after years the latest OS can only support *****ONE***** GPU's hardware decoding. Windows has an exposed API anyone can hook into, and support from most graphics cards released in the last three years. Why aren't more OS X users angry that Apple, even with Quicktime, is still incapable of writing basic driver support for its hardware!!!???
And don't start trotting out GCD, OpenGL, OpenCL as if they are some magic lemon-balm rub that makes everything better. GCD is not relelvant in this case, OpenGL is supported much better in Windows (Snow Leopard is still on 2.1, not 3.x), and OpenCL is an open source CUDA alternative, which has been in a usable state for far longer for Windows users (they have several shipping consumer and professional products that uses CUDA for computation).
Snow Leopard has regressed its graphics performance considerably:
http://www.barefeats.com/nehal16.html
And Macbook Pros are still unable to use Hybrid-SLI even though NVidia clearly support it, and is available on windows Laptops, and would so clearly benefit OpenCL!
As a graphics professional, this story of Adobe being unable to find a usable API on OS X, irrespective of what little childish rants we may throw at Adobe, really is an indication that OS X is in serious need of some fundamental changes to its graphics driver technology. The best overall OS in existence really needs some serious critical appraisal over the state of its graphics drivers!
BUT what amazes me here is that so few people are rightly criticizing Apple. Hardware accelerated H264 decoding has been available in graphics chipsets for years, and exposed and available to our Windows brethren. Apple has dragged its heels with driver development for years, giving us last-generation graphics cards with many features not available, H264 decoding being a prime example. And yet only a few people here are asking why, after years the latest OS can only support *****ONE***** GPU's hardware decoding. Windows has an exposed API anyone can hook into, and support from most graphics cards released in the last three years. Why aren't more OS X users angry that Apple, even with Quicktime, is still incapable of writing basic driver support for its hardware!!!???
And don't start trotting out GCD, OpenGL, OpenCL as if they are some magic lemon-balm rub that makes everything better. GCD is not relelvant in this case, OpenGL is supported much better in Windows (Snow Leopard is still on 2.1, not 3.x), and OpenCL is an open source CUDA alternative, which has been in a usable state for far longer for Windows users (they have several shipping consumer and professional products that uses CUDA for computation).
Snow Leopard has regressed its graphics performance considerably:
http://www.barefeats.com/nehal16.html
And Macbook Pros are still unable to use Hybrid-SLI even though NVidia clearly support it, and is available on windows Laptops, and would so clearly benefit OpenCL!
As a graphics professional, this story of Adobe being unable to find a usable API on OS X, irrespective of what little childish rants we may throw at Adobe, really is an indication that OS X is in serious need of some fundamental changes to its graphics driver technology. The best overall OS in existence really needs some serious critical appraisal over the state of its graphics drivers!
Hey, good point!
Yes, couldn't agree more. But hardware accelerated h.264 is only for video. Not something like web gaming.
Slowed down? No, I can't feel a thing. If they indeed slowed down, it's better than dealing with ads I don't even know what they are selling. You installed click2flash but not ads blocker?
People will and always have problem with ads. Back then, Javascript abused by popping up a new window(s). And like I said, not just Flash ads. Those "Please help us by filling these form.. bla bla bla" are not Flash. It's build in Javascript and HTML/CSS alone.
Don't you think those advertiser will stop if Flash replaced by what you call HTML5 animation? No. Flash Dead or Alive, advertiser would do anything to attractive. Imagine only 3-5 code of lines you could occupied the whole page only by DIV tag! That IS annoying. Not the Flash.
What I mean is not every Flash is bad. Some people using it for something really annoying like ads and overuse Flash sites, that's bad.
Yes, couldn't agree more. But hardware accelerated h.264 is only for video. Not something like web gaming.
Slowed down? No, I can't feel a thing. If they indeed slowed down, it's better than dealing with ads I don't even know what they are selling. You installed click2flash but not ads blocker?
People will and always have problem with ads. Back then, Javascript abused by popping up a new window(s). And like I said, not just Flash ads. Those "Please help us by filling these form.. bla bla bla" are not Flash. It's build in Javascript and HTML/CSS alone.
Don't you think those advertiser will stop if Flash replaced by what you call HTML5 animation? No. Flash Dead or Alive, advertiser would do anything to attractive. Imagine only 3-5 code of lines you could occupied the whole page only by DIV tag! That IS annoying. Not the Flash.
What I mean is not every Flash is bad. Some people using it for something really annoying like ads and overuse Flash sites, that's bad.
Huh?! CS Suite no longer important?! Well, maybe, if you dig ditches for a living.
If Adobe stopped developing CS and Flash for the Mac, the Mac platform will drop to 0.01%.
Flash's future depends on how successful the iPhone becomes: if it hits market share in the 40~50% range, Flash based websites and web videos will become untenable and the switch over to HTML5 will happen.
IMO that's what Apple is counting on, otherwise they would have used some of that $34 billion in cash they have floating around to buy Adobe, and kill flash themselves.
IMO that's what Apple is counting on, otherwise they would have used some of that $34 billion in cash they have floating around to buy Adobe, and kill flash themselves.
If Apple bought Adobe websites would simply convert to Silverlight. Which btw works very well.
The day after Adobe, stopped Mac CS development, Apple would buy them and fire their entire management team. Tell me again how likely they are to stop it? Of course considering the percentage of revenue Adobe gets from Mac sales, Adobe's board would replace their management faster than Apple could take any action.
Well, the HTML5 one was 33% processor and the flash was 75%…then I realised that the flash wasn't in HD…so…110%. (not flash 10.1)
What is the percentage of revenue for mac sales of CS? It couldn't seem like much considering support seems to be a lot worse than on Windows. I'm just curious.
here we go... a company that has 9% of the US market and under 5% of the world market is going to kill FLASH - nonsense - APPLE just need to sit down with ADOBE and get it fixed. Flash has stable, mature development tools that run well in 95% of computers - it is not going away.
you guys want to emails the agency that makes the Apple advertising and tell them that Jobs hates flash? that flash is dead?
http://www.tbwa.com/
A high-end media company entire front page is flash, if this thing is so horrid you think they be afraid it would scare off clients.
It has more to do with how it is used - I am on a MacBook Air 1.6 with a crap Intel GPU right now and that one CRUCIAL RAM flash banner on top of MacRumors is not killing my machine.
you guys want to emails the agency that makes the Apple advertising and tell them that Jobs hates flash? that flash is dead?
http://www.tbwa.com/
A high-end media company entire front page is flash, if this thing is so horrid you think they be afraid it would scare off clients.
It has more to do with how it is used - I am on a MacBook Air 1.6 with a crap Intel GPU right now and that one CRUCIAL RAM flash banner on top of MacRumors is not killing my machine.
I'm using the Mid-2007 MacBook listed in my signature. I'm using the new Beta Flash plug-in at a little more than 21 FPS.
As far as uploading screenshots goes, TinyGrab is extremely easy to use.
http://tinygrab.com
Because Silverlight works on the iPhone? Did you even read what I wrote? The point is that the future is portable devices. There will soon be more smartphones than PCs. Having your website or video be invisible to on the top mobile platform will be untenable. So no, they won't switch to Silverlight, they'll switch to HTML5. Indeed Google will be leading the HTML5 charge.
Perhaps you should, oh, I dunno, wait until Flash is actually available on iPhone competitors (and available for evaluation) before counting this as some sort of selling point?
I now know why it's a prerelease build, it's crashed all 3 of my browsers. Good thing I'm at work!
The sad truth is that many companies, government agencies, and ridiculous bloated corporations are hard locked into old browsers (they even run XP still, like 70% of the windows world) which do not support HTML5. For now, Flash has significant use for these companies in e-learning and video capabilities.
And the flash haters can complain about flash ads (who doesn't hate ads?
), but if flash is gone, you'll just start seeing HTML5 ads that do the exact same thing. Or sliverlight ads. Or whatever. Flash is just a platform for something you hate: crappy ads. The death of flash won't bring online advertising down with it.P.s.- the HTML5 video on youtube someone posted was awesome, but I liked the content of the demo video even more: a recording real time 3d built into the browser! Cool stuff!
MorphingDragon said:
str1f3 said:
And 90% of all internet statistics are made up.
You guys both have your points, and perhaps you hate flash, but you can't agree on your stats for hating it. Are you guys secretly US Senators or representatives? str1f3 said:
Flash plays back h264 encoded videos. It has been able to do that since at least 2007.
http://labs.adobe.com/wiki/index.php/Flash_Player:9:Update:H.264