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Adobe: PC Preferred?

The Mac needs a heart transplant...

I think this thread boils down to this:

Apple (like Dell and others) is a reseller of sorts. They buy processors from Motorola, Hard drives from IBM or Western Digital, the Superdrive's from Pioneer and Sony, memory from Kingston, Etc... They design a case which is manufactured in Taiwan or China, assembled in Cupertino (maybe) along with the rest of the components.

My point is Apple has ultimate control over their product line - more than Dell in the sense that Dell does not design their primary OS. Apple makes design decisions down to the last nut and bolt... Apple has built a beautiful and battle-hardened (yet over-burdened) OS called Mac OSX. This is juxtaposed with the fact that at the heart of the Macintosh is a processor that is essentially EOL'd by it's own manufacturer.

The Mac needs a heart transplant because the rest of the body can't survive without it. :eek:
 
Originally posted by Foocha
the page links through to another page where they're trying to flog Dells. It's just one business unit at Adobe, and hardly represents their corporate policy.
Click to expand...

Charlie White's original article compared 2 Dells One Mac and an Alienware 2001DV Intel P4 2.53GHz, with which the Mac compares reasonably.

Adobe's rehash of the results slimmed down the list to 2 to sell Dells to Mac users.

Apple now competes aggresively with Adobe on video editing. It seems appropriate the Adobe fires a return salvo.

Watch NAB to see how Apple respond.
 
'Mac vs. PC III: Mac Slaughtered Again'

Terribly frustrating for me, a Mac user and lover for a long long time... The OS KILLS Windoze obviously, but again, the hardware is really crippled... One of the things that has frustrated me about Macs is the slowness in adopting the latest technology... I can live with the lack of Intel speeds at this point, however, why can't Apple push the envelope on the rest of the mobo architecture??? I mean, they OBVIOUSLY lead the way in industrial design; but if only they could make their machines as mean on the inside as they are on the outside... I would like to see Macs match PCs on all other specs, if not processor speed... Apple is indeed a LARGE company - they can do this...
 
Sour grapes

It's hard not to think this comparative is payback for Apple's pursuit of insanely good video editing software, resulting in total annihilation of Adobe's Mac Premiere/After Effects revenue...
 
The best way to push Apple

At first it sounds very, very negative... and it still is regarding the current line up of (Power ?)Macs. If Apple doesn't feature new gr8 PPC 970 (POWER !)Macs in the very near future, then this statement by "long time friends" Adobe could really be the final nail in the coffin of DTP on Macintosh. I can't imagine this "PC Preferred" page being on Adobe's site for a whole year without Apple suffering alot!
This MUST mean that Apple is going to have a really fast processor this year. Apple have read this, and let's hope that there will be a "Mac Preferred" page posted on Adobe's website before the summer has ended!

COME ON APPLE!
 
Adobe knows that when Apple gets the G5, if it is as good as everyone says, Apple will be able to boss Adobe around again and they just want to kick Apple around a bit before that happens.
 
about switching

hi apple-lovers (like me)

For the REAL work I had to switch to the evil empire already - it's so cheap that you can easily do that ... waiting waiting and still more waiting for better times on our preferred platform.

In the meantime wife and kids have a lot of fun with my old macs.
 
keywords...

have fun(macs)
real work; other system
On the serious side though, I read that Apple might be developing there own brand of Photoshop, some photo utilities already show up in iPhoto 2, Adobe has there own brand of iPhoto called Adobe Album, some jack within the company might be feeding negative vibes etc,
I dont know, but it has been within the last month or two that this animosity started, Adobe must be looking at how Safari is greatly outdoing its competitor browsers, They might be fearing a drawing or photo app, that might out-do PS7? I will also utilize the "car" metaphor to illustrate the differences in platforms, any fool with money can by a Ferrari,that does not make him a great driver, I know of a friend of mine who has a G4 and they only use it to surf the net, its like having that same Ferrari only to go get groceries!, To me PCS are like putting a Ferrari engine on a minivan, would it drive like a Ferrari? never!, thats the conundrum of pcs, its all horsepower but no handling no harmony within its sytems. now on a Mac you get less Mgz speed but much better handling and stability, have you ever tried to take a curve at 50Mph on a Isuzu Samurai? You roll over easy at 35Mphs, PC's OS are like that, a Frankestinian voyage into brute speed without thought or purpose, its OS has no stability, My iMac 400DV is like the mini Cooper;I can find parking anywhere, gets me from A to B, does not roll over at 35mph, save me gas and has speed enough!does not leave me stranded! lol, I think that the more people look at speed alone the better I feel, makes me think I know something, Ciao
 
Originally posted by ultrafiel
Ok. They all are quite consistant across platforms, although I do find myself hitting that stupid windows button for shortcuts if I don't think (why is that there? No one I know uses it.)
Click to expand...

I know this post was a while back, but here goes anyway...

the Win-key does actually get used a lot.

Win-M .. Min all windows (show desktop)
Win-R .. Run dialog box
Win-F .. File Search window
Win-E .. Open an Explorer window
Win-U .. Utility Manager
Win-I .. Favourites Pane in explorer
etc
 
Originally posted by acj
I put XP on an old dell laptop. It was a pentium 2 or 3 366MHz (I think) with just 128mb ram, and it was fast. It booted in 30 seconds, loaded photoshop, ie, and office fast. It even ran all three fine. XP is bad, but OSX is a resource pig.
Click to expand...

You have got to be exaggerating, pal. 30-second boot is just about impossible on anything prior to 800MHz for XP. Running all three "fine"? With only 128MB RAM? That's also a questionable assessment, since XP's base install eats around 70-100 megs of memory without any software running.

So, please, don't exaggerate THAT much. XP on my old Sony Vaio PCG-F390 (P3 500 notebook upped to 256MB memory) was a dismal, dismal performer. We're talking horrible, unusable Photoshop performance, OK Office XP performance, and slow slow slow rendering on IE. We're talking Jaguar on a first-gen beige G3 with low memory performance. Computers from 3-5 years ago choke on XP, period.

How can I be sure? Because I'm a lifelong PC user. I just bought my first Mac two weeks ago.

I agree that PCs have (obviously) overtaken Macs in the performance department. But, as some have mentioned, the overall experience is where Apple still wins. My Mac is not even remotely cutting edge. It's an older Quicksilver 800MHz. I've upped it to 1GB RAM and massive HD space. But it's only PC133 RAM. I'm running Jaguar.

YES my AMD Athlon PC renders faster than my Mac. But you know what? More often than not, I find myself just biting the bullet and dealing with 5-45 extra seconds of rendering time in PS or when I'm messing with 3D or audio software. Why? Because I love my Mac. Don't get me wrong, I adore Windows 2000 too, as the most stable OS Microsoft ever has released. (If you doubt me, come on over some time and I'll do some tasks then load XP and crash the computer doing the same tasks.) But it doesn't inspire me. I *want* to play with my Mac; I've been using it non-stop and went ahead and repurchased a lot of my software for it. Why? Because it's fun, it's stable, and YES, despite what nay-sayers say, it's fast.

(Give it gobs of memory and it's fast, that is.)

Not that my PC isn't fast! It just about smokes the LuqBox G4 in terms of rendering. But I'll be damned if Jaguar just doesn't seem to just fit in better with the way I think.

So, yes, I'm a working pro multimedia guy, and I'll gladly take 5-45 seconds longer rendering for the "user experience" that people seem to be minimizing. Luq out.
 
Unfortuneately Adobe's statements highlight the sad truth, even after taking the Mhz myth into account, Macs are slow. And for those that say that speed is not everything, i agree; it isn't everything, but it is very important. If you work in photoshop, or whatever other app, for a living, time = money. All those little bits of extra time spent waiting start to add up.

While everyone here loves the mac platform, i don't think that many can still claim to be particularly enamoured with the G4 anymore. It was a great chip about a year and a half ago, but now its simply being blown away by the competition. Even Altivec isnt the saving grace that it's claimed to be because it's being starved by the slow FSB.

Here's hoping the 970 makes a speedy sweep across the entire Pro line, so that the G4 can enjoy a well deserved retirement.
 
So what, the PPC970 is coming & spare me the x86 Apple nonsense

We will see the PPC970 in Apple desktops this summer so stay calm. This is along with the Athlon64 the only desktop CPU with 64 Bit. The Itanium 2 is as IBM well put it a science project, not a really marketable CPU.
The main reason I don't want an x86 is because its a crappy outdated chip design. It still carries all the old excess **** from the original 8086 and all the legacy crap with it. NO WAY, apple finally got rid of that! And spare me the FUD I rather take a slower Moto or IBM CPU than a GHz Monster that dies quickly because of electro-migration (as the 3GHz PVIs do) and that still can't calculate right...
Regards,

Ahmed Faisal :mad:
 
As for the G4, I'd ditch it and get faster G3s

Looking at where Moto is going with the G4 I personally would rather see Apple ditch it and use G3s again. IBM has repeatedly claimed it could come up with significantly faster G3s (2GHz & up) in a short period of time so the altivec advantage of the G4 should be easily compensated by that :D
The iBook 800 performed equally well if not better in a lot of non-altivec enhanced apps than the Powerbook 12"... :mad:
Just my 2 euro-cents,

Ahmed
 
Re: about deadlines and such...

Originally posted by Mlobo01
The deadlines add an extra frisson to the mix,but never interferes in my enjoyment of it, but If it anyone feels that they have to sacrifice artistic integrity due to mismanagemnet of time or lack of talent then you are in the wrong business, consider that you CAN be doing things you enjoy while making a living at it, I know I do.
Click to expand...


have you worked with files OVER a gig? tradeshows kill macs. transforms can take an easy twenty minutes. it may be fine for you but i usually have too much to do than sit on my butt for twenty minutes thinking to myself how pretty the progress bar is.
 
time=money may not = quality

I think we are forgetting that at the heart of these so called faster systems still lies a week
OS, if we use the premise of time=$ re-booting the sytem a couple times a day or year does add
up! how about taking the PC thats in question the shop? that requires cash aswell, the gas that is waisted in getting there etc, I only re-boot my imac DV when upgrades require it, And when it comes to rendering on photoshop Im very confident in what I do and I dont experiment too much unless its my own personall exercise,
These threads when it comes to the mac will always tend to go beyond whats technological and will tend to go to whats metaphysical, its what fuels the general mac user to keep their poise even in the face of these trivialities that seem to want to pressure an already stable technological system into unsteady emotional frenzy, that in the end will prove nothing to the
people who are looking to do more with their machines than to serve the "Man". To go on the trail of a falsehood ideal is the tale of fools, sort of a techno-el dorado.
"Its upon my will I set my mind in motion" Dune
 
relax beatle

its meant in general, Only you know your qualities, whether this applies to you or not fall outside the field of the thread, this is my response, and no one here should take anything personal other than the responsability of their own experience, I'am not attacking no one here
nor condescending, I just read and respond, Im
backed by my experience in my field, and by my working with my computer, The point of my response should not trigger anything other than
an informed frame of reference, these threads provide many perspectives on a single idea, whether negative or positive they do provide points and show disticnt personalities and impetus towards the Machines. sometimes we are going to read things we may not like, but we read and go on, the world of computing will not
turn upside down on account of this thread, This is to express, read and move on but...
I have shot the arrow o'er the house
and hurt my friend, by this hand
it was not for you... Hamlet
 
speed does matter when you have an ae project that takes 40 hours to render on your mac but would render in 25 on a pc. Thats a lot of time and money lost. If apple doesnt get their **** together this user may have to switch to the dark side. And i'm sure i wont be the only one.
 
Concensus...

The general concensus I get is; yes there is a lot of fustration at the end of the day, due to that we are in some cases obligated to use other than what we want to use, Some here would honestly keep their Macs, but they are bound to their responsabilities, there is no fault in that, its just unfortunate. Some of the upper management changes in Apple this past week or additions may have been triggered by the lack of these decisions being made, to move to a faster processor and match intel and the rest, why stick to Moto? lack of proper leadership?bad consul? we will get switchers alright, towards MS! that is. I agree with person who says" apple needs a transplant" and quickly please, We need a new flagship Mac, hopefully there is changes around the corner, cause no matter what is out there in July im getting a G4, hopefully new stuff will be out, for those who have participated in this thread I appreciate your honesty, and opinion, and despite the differences of opinion I wish you all the oportunity to have your own Macs, and primarily to enjoy whatever you have regardless, just keep safe, And hopefully I will respond to some of you in some other threads.
"despite the chaos and separation of others in these times of war; the conflict of technologies
that we share is our own, which is what binds us" Me
 
Originally posted by NavyIntel007
Ok, first off I've heard Adobe isn't dual processor aware (forgive me if I made that up)

Second...

PC vs. Mac: which one ages faster.

Lets take a PC and a Mac that are 3 years old, put the latest OS (Win XP, OS X) in them and give them similar Hard drives, video cards and ram. Which one would perform faster?

If the Mac performs faster over time, it's a selling point saying that even though it doesn't run as fast as a PC the performance will not degrade as fast.

I don't know this for sure, I just know that people are still using 3-5 year old macs with OS X, where 3-5 year old PC's cannot handle XP.
Click to expand...

I believe that is a myth. I'm running XP on a dual 266 PII, runs fine. I put that machine together back in Sept of 97 so it's about 5 1/2 years old. I'm running XP on a PII 366 laptop that is coming up on 4 years old, no problems. I sold my bondi blue in February last year because OSX was painful.
 
Originally posted by ewinemiller
I believe that is a myth. I'm running XP on a dual 266 PII, runs fine. I put that machine together back in Sept of 97 so it's about 5 1/2 years old. I'm running XP on a PII 366 laptop that is coming up on 4 years old, no problems. I sold my bondi blue in February last year because OSX was painful.
Click to expand...
Exactly.. that thing about macs lasting longer is completely made up by mac zealots.
On my friends 350 MHz/320MB ram PC Win XP runs just fine, interface is fast and usable, unlike Mac OS X on my 350 MHz iMac which is slow as crap.

As for Adobe, I think Apple needs to come up with application to replace Photoshop which will be faster and optimized for Dual CPU's and Altivec.
 
Adobe is nuts. They rig the test results to make it look like the PC is faster. When the

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/09.html

MTOPs ratings are taken into consideration

And developers fully implement

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2002/04/05/altivec.html

Altivec coding

The Mac is as much as 4 to 5 times faster. Look at RC5 tests and Genentech Blast.

Look at this page:

http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html

It is obvious that both Adobe's site, and this site can't be true.
Someone at Adobe is either:

1. Lying in their teeth.
2. Not optimizing their software for Altivec as Macdevcenter shows how above.

It is obvious to me that Adobe has basically faltered at its post as a Mac friendly developer. We should send a stern message to Adobe that while we'll buy InDesign because Quark won't make their Mac OS X native version soon enough, and we'll buy Photoshop we won't buy any of their other software until they optimize their Mac software for the Mac.

There is always Final Cut Express and Final Cut Pro.

And there is Corel Graphics Suite.
 
Boy did adobe start the flames, but really what they are saying is true. Macs crappy never moved forward g4 is and had been stuck in 1st gear. Just look at the fact that apple went to 2 cpu's and a heatsink that is a monster. Apple has done everything under the sun to get as much as they can out of crappy motorola crap. new architecture,2 cpu's a os that can use them but a zillion apps that dont know how. Bottom line is that the g4 is history. Thank you motorola. Sure we know the 970 machine is in the works but apple isnt talking. We also know that OSX is much better then windblows. We will just have to wait for a faster better cpu. The fact that Adobe is saying this publicly just reenforces the point. Mac hardware is again way behind. Thank god is still has the best style and software. This makes me wonder why the hardheads in the hardware division took so long to put together( the g4 was stuck and not moving.) Maybe they signed a deal with motorola saying we will buy a million g4s for the coming years even if they have no progress? If so then this is Apples fault for sticking with motorola. Maybe they need to move whoever is in charge of the software division over to the hardware division for awhile. It just pisses me off that motorola never cared about this aspect of their business and apple stayed with these clowns for so long.
 
Equal Footing

From the linked article:

"The computer still uses RDRAM, the same Intel 850e chipset and 533MHz frontside bus as its predecessor. But there’s more than meets the eye here, and it’s these certain modifications, along with a faster processor with its remarkable new hyperthreading feature, that are the reason for this newfound speed. "

If you check the tech specs of a last generation G4 at apple.com:

"Up to 167MHz system bus"

I would be appalled if a system with more than 3x the main bus speed couldn't win this show down. The main point is that this is not an equal comparison. The PC clearly has a major advantage. Now I have no idea what hyperthreading does to this study but on a pure hardware comparison, apples (pun intended) to oranges seems to be the way to phrase this. I would be interested at the results on comparitively speced hardware.

Yes, Apple needs to push for better harware. Now that they are working with IBM, let's hope that happens. Moto was a good partner, but they have become narrow in their focus to engage the embeded market, and that has hindered the PowerPC's progress.

The crux of this, as well as all of the post I see here is that what works for one does not for another. I have been working with PC's and Macs side by side for many years and I can say that each has their place in computing. Don't let some silly article tell you how fast a system is. Try one out. Go to the store and play. Use your friends machines. Only when you have a feel for the real time applications of what you do, will you be able to pick the machine that works best for you.

"Macintosh - we might not get everything right, but at least we knew the century was going to end. "

-Douglas Adams
 
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