Adobe: PC Preferred?

[MM2270]

NAB event?

I haven't read thru all the posts, so if this was mentioned already, please forgive me.
But I wonder if Apple's upcoming press conference at NAB about the future of their digital video strategy has anything to do with this? Is Apple going to present something that will definitively blow Adobe's video apps out of the ballpark? Considering FCP already beats Premiere on most tasks, it's not impossible to think that an upcoming release of FCP 4 at NAB will drive the final nails in Adobe Premiere's coffin.

I would also think that Adobe is aware of that, and this article could be a last attempt to salvage it's market - by showing users they can switch to PC's and get better performance with their apps, since, obviously FCP will NOT be available on the PC. Any outstanding new version of FCP on the Mac will effectively kill the market for Premiere on the Mac, so it would be in Adobe's best interest to tout speed as an advantage on the PC.
I'm not trying to say that speed isn't an issue, because we all know Apple's hardware is currently falling behind, but unless it took me hours longer to do things on the Mac as opposed to a PC, any features that FCP had that Premiere couldn't touch might be enough to keep me on a Mac (if I did digital video)

Just a thought... what does everyone think?

 

[cgmpowers]

Adobe & Apple

Being the conspiracy buff that I sometimes can be... I can't help but wonder if this is an Apple led compain to help launch the new Mac's coming to us that will have the Intel chip in them.

Think about it. We have hundreds apon hundreds of Mac users who've yet leaped to dual processor, let alone those still yet to embrace OS X, with the Intel chip touting dual 2.0+ ghz machines running OS X...wouldn't you jump at that??

I just can't help but wonder if its a dual effort (pardon the pun) to recount years of PC vs Mac warfare and build energy and excitement among diehard and long time Mac users...

It's also very tempting to those who'd never consider a Mac as well... Those who whine about their Dell P4 2.4 being so much better than a Mac Dual Whatever.. Hehe...a dual is a dual afterall...heh and a dual 2.x is a very cool prospect.

Christopher Powers

p.s...but this is also a message from a guy whose still waiting for my Mac Tablet (and don't flame me, hehehe).

 

[dstranathan]

Originally posted by jeffberg
Analogy Time

PC vs Mac is like Honda Accord vs. Range Rover

The Accord has more horsepower, creating more speed.
The range rover has more torque, creating more power.
just as a PC goes faster, a Mac can do more at once.

The accord is basic, featureless.
The range rover is leathery, woody, beautiful, and packed with every possible emenaty
just as PC's are hard to use and can't do anything out of the box. while macs are pretty and have all the software required for the basics of everything right out of the box.

The accord is small and hard to see out of, to see what your doing and what others are doing
the range rover has high seating with low windows to allow you to see everything that happens
just as the PC can do things without you knowing, viruses etc. while a Mac tells you or at least gives and indication of just about everything that it does.

the accord is loved by environmentalists and hated by republicans
the range rover is shunned by environmentalists loved by the republicans
the PC is used by most everyone, except the ones with taste.
the mac is used by the ones with taste and hated by the jealous ones.
(I meant nothing personal about the environmental / republican stuff)

There I think that is enough.

*Disclaimer - I mean no offense by this post, it is my personal opinion. It does not have to be your opinion, but I also have the right to say this according to the 1st amendment (I think it is the 1st, its the free speech one that I am referring to)*

What about the Honda Element?

http://homepage.mac.com/dstranathan/PhotoAlbum18.html

:0)

 

[rjwill246]

It is clear that the speed issue for Apple is something that they must come to grips with even if it is only because of the comments now flourishing- and IMHO somewhat off track. For almost all of the world's users, the iMac is more than sufficient to do the normal taks that the average computer user needs. I too use Photoshop 7 for manipulating 3D ultrasound images and basically everything happens STAT! (its a G4 with dual 1.25s). That there are PCs capable of flooring Macs in some tasks is obviously true but the relevance of that to what? 95+% of users is immaterial, if the need for such power is limited to a few users. More to the point: bashing the Mac for its tardiness and ignoring the "bedazzling" Windows experience, indeed is a confusion of priorities of a very high order.
Apple it should be noted is not entirely to be blamed for this either and if they are in fact working with another chip maker (?IBM) then they are doing about all they can reasonably do? and if waiting until the WWDC is too far into the future for the complaining power user, then switching to the Wintel platform is the only logical thing for that person to do... though their impatience will certainly lead to an otherwordly experience that may cause them pause and rue the day they went sailing down THAT river.
So here's to Apple for fighting the good fight, for leading the industry in stunning innovations ( remember when only an idiot would use a GUI, mouse and suchlike?) and for making such great utility and revitalization of an old and stagnant OS (Linux users need not respond). This speed thing is truly an example of losing sight of the forest for the trees... and the more we go on about it, the more we might put off potential switchers who, unforunately for them, might just buy into this malarkey.

 

[jeffberg]

Originally posted by Stridder44
The PPC970 is the only way I can think of to go if I were in Job's shoes right now. Sure x86 would be great and the Mac OS would get great credit and Microsoft would have some serious compition, but an x86 Mac OSX wouldn't have a single application except those made by Apple (at least in the beginning). I think PPC 970 is a better way to go for Apple.

And as for Motorola, stick with phones. The G4 WAS great at one time...but they've done so little to make it better it makes one sick. Im only hoping that Apple has something great in plan for THIS summer (any later than summer might be, well..too late).

And, for the records, go Apple.

I was under the impression that Cocoa apps could be rebuilt for any system. Maybe Apple could create a drag and drop thing that would rebuild a cocoa app for X86, and an emulator for those installers that use Carbon. But then big apps like MS Office and Photoshop would be left in the dust because they are carbon.

 

[misterniall]

What about the video...?

I read through everything and didn't notice any mention of the fact that there is a difference in video cards for these machines...
ATI Fire GL E1 and GeForce 4 Ti 4600 ... I have yet to see a comparison of each of these cards ... the FIRE is generally compared the Quadra4. This coupled with the preformance of the harddrive and a no real details on setup at all.

I haven't read such a poor , dare I call it a review, in a while. Why not give us a more detailed breakdown on the testing and let someone try and duplicate it. This is clearly evident in the fact that there is far more detail given regarding the Dell setup than the Mac.

Shame on Adobe for copying data with no apparent verification. Send the testing to someone who knows what they are doing!! I would also be very curious to see how often you need to reboot the DEll versus the Apple ... to quote the article
"time is money". I guess as long as the Dell boots fast I suppose it could balance out . (XP vs OSX 10.2.4 maybe?)

I have done a fair bit of Video editing in both platforms.... and nothing grates my nerves more than the blue screen of death!

N.

 

[Vlade]

I hope in 4 weeks they post a news saying "Apples new processors are now faster than intels top Pentium 4, and we are back to prefering the Macintosh platform"

 

[hsilver]

Adobe promotion of PCs

After looking at this forum, I opened a copy of Film & Video magazine and there was a multipage advertising section for Adobe products leading with a pseudo article / advert in the form of a testimonial from a person in a big graphics shop touting the speed advantages of the PC and how that convinced him to SWITCH to PC Platform. Adobe is promoting the PC with a vengence.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Adobe's been in bed with Wintel for sometime now.

The thing is Apple will never really give Adobe it's due simply because Apple remembers Adobe as the "little" company that rose to power along with them as Desktop Publishing sprouted.

However now Adobe's portfolio is really filled with one crown jewel and that's Photoshop.

all who attempted to defeat teh reigning Photo Editor have died. Live Picture...TIFFany Xres. I'm not sure Photoshop can be beat now.

However Apple's going to kick Adobe's arse in Digital Video...mark my words. Apple wants it more.

 

[copperpipe]

for everyone who's threatening to leave the Apple platform

I'm calling your bluff! Go ahead, leave the platform! Good riddance! The thing is, you KNOW that your life will decrease in value dramaticly. Oh sure, you'll be on your crappy Dell computers getting your photoshop render done 30 seconds quicker than me, but you'll be spending the ENTIRE DAY (if you work in photoshop as much as I do) on this crappy computer that you really deep down just can't like. You'll try and like it. You'll say to yourself "This isn't so bad!", but it is. Especially on those days when things go wrong (AND THEY WILL) and you're pulling your hair out and tech support tells you to wipe the hard rive . THAT is a STANDARD solution for windows machines!!! I've worked with MAC's for 10+ years and I've NEVER had to wipe my hard drive. EVER! So you guys go and save your precious seconds just so you can say your machine is faster. YOU WIN! Now, go leave, get out of here...

 

[Mlobo01]

copperpipe has decreed!

thats the fighting spirit! Thats one reason I stick with my little iMac 400DV, even though Im getting to that stage that I need more speed, I will only obtain it through another Mac, hopefully by june-august. Maybe the new macs are out. I think working on a PC doing photoshop is Torture! just like my boy copperpipe said!
Its me and you buddy against them all! and whomever wants to join will be welcomed with open arms!
We few, we happy happy few, we band of brothers! Henry the 5th

 

[bigrock]

Re: What about the video...?

Originally posted by misterniall
I read through everything and didn't notice any mention of the fact that there is a difference in video cards for these machines...
ATI Fire GL E1 and GeForce 4 Ti 4600 ... I have yet to see a comparison of each of these cards ... the FIRE is generally compared the Quadra4. This coupled with the preformance of the harddrive and a no real details on setup at all.

well, actually, it would not have made much of a difference. after effects does not have any open gl support, so all the extra 3d capabilities don't matter. what matters in after effects is hard drive access speed, processor speed, and ram. at least until they put out a new version that has open gl acceleration.

 

[beatle888]

Re: copperpipe has decreed!

Originally posted by Mlobo01
thats the fighting spirit! Thats one reason I stick with my little iMac 400DV, even though Im getting to that stage that I need more speed, I will only obtain it through another Mac, hopefully by june-august. Maybe the new macs are out. I think working on a PC doing photoshop is Torture! just like my boy copperpipe said!
Its me and you buddy against them all! and whomever wants to join will be welcomed with open arms!
We few, we happy happy few, we band of brothers! Henry the 5th

ok before you upset me, but now your making me smile

 

[Mlobo01]

Hey Beatle sorry about the cold response yesterday...

I didn't catch any sleep yesterday so I was definetly not in my usual mode, for that I do apologize and all those who were subject to my thoughtless reaction, I know I must of misread some of you and just posted without regarding your prior posts, But after a couple of hours of sleep Im more objective today and less reactionary. This thread did take me by surprise
specially the Adobe part, but like someone else
said it can possibly be a PR stunt by Apple, it wouldnt be too far fetched, But its not an Apple style of advertising...Hmmmm...for the other topic; How did this difference in speed get out of hand? I now that convincing the general public
does not take much, you give them more numbers and basically they bait for what they dont understand but it seems more for their buck, its a sensitive matter getting caught between having to do what you like most doing and having to decide to use the other system other than your favorite Mac just cause the speed in the PC is higher, not better but
faster and economically feasible, just like Generic brand Raisin'bran is cheaper than the original, but trust me it does not taste the same! I think that as a research project for all of us that have been reading these"faster chips" posts; is that we should take a trip to the local computer store and instead of looking for the specs lets take a look at the details, craftsmanship and selection of materials, compare the obvious Dell, Gateway, Sony etc and then go the Apple side and see for yourself,
that there is thought and purpose behind every design element, I did this myself yesterday, and once you see a Powerbook 15inch, you definetly
see the difference, while the others look like plastic toy-like casings the PBook feels and looks like a well designed and developed item. remember when the first Sony Walkmans came out, their was a selection of materials, different types of materials to compliment the design, nowadays the amount of plastic used in todays Walkmans is excessive, they use metals for their Clie or MDs but eventually will become plastic as it gets more generic, they use the bait and switch. Now if you look at Apple products you can see that they have over the years improved their selection of materials, the starting point was the fruit colored iMacs and Monitors. My point is a general and objective view of any system is needed instead of just Mgz speed. Peace

 

[beatle888]

well i went back to view my post and realized i might have provoked your response. im just a bit sensitive about my work and having it pulled from me when im not even done with it. its happened. ive been asked many times to just sweep over images and not take the time to polish them as i like. i love the mac and i do think apple provides enough speed for the print industry so im fine...apple has already met my needs, now i just have to GET one of those top of the line systems. i know its a different story with people working in video and 3D. but within a couple of years...if we continue to support apple, speed will cease to be an issue in those industries as well. i say stick it out, we came this far. now all we have to do is wait a few years cause the day when speed is no longer an issue is on the horizon.

 

[MorganX]

Originally posted by nuckinfutz
Adobe's been in bed with Wintel for sometime now.

If you mean 28% of adobe sales are to Mac users and 72% to Wintel users then you're correct.

It is a business. Are you suggesting they slight 72% of their paying customers?

 

[Rocket_J]

AE is poorly optimized

I just ran a comparison between After Effects 5.5 for OSX and Final Cut Pro 3 for OSX. Using the same Media 100 source video and compositing multiple scrolling text overlays to Mpeg-4, AE took 4 minutes, 11 seconds. Final Cut Pro took 2 minutes 50 seconds. Adobe not only ticks me off by publishing this comparison, but loses points for poorly optimized software. What really bothers me is that Adobe knows AE is not fully optimized for OSX, but still publishes the comparison as if it was a meaningful comparison. What is their motivation here?

 

[365]

I just bought PC, a Compaq Evo D510 with 2ghz P4, 512mb RAM etc.. and a 17" Compaq TFT digital screen all brand new with three year Compaq warranty for £774!! (about $1000)

Compared to Jaguar, the operating system (XP Pro) is second rate but I can live with it because the functionality is very similar, it just looks crap. Speed though is another matter, my kids have a 700mhz G4 iMac (cost me £1200 - $1700) and the PC walks all over it, I don't mean slightly faster, I mean it batters it, it's embarrasing.

Why did I buy it? because I wanted a faster machine (I had a dual 867 but the noise was horrendous and I got offered a good amount by a friend so I moved it on) but don't want to pay the premium required for the current G4 towers, which don't cut it (the Powerbook is a different matter), so this is a stop gap (I feel guily using it). Will I stick with Windows, not on your life (I don't think) but I wish Apple had a policy of telling me when I could have expected a new machine that had the horsepower to live with the work of art that is OSX.

I know that Apple rely on Motorola but are you telling me that the lack of horsepower wasn't picked up on months even years ago.

 

[movabi]

I have been using macs for 12 years. I was not impressed when I ordered a shiny new 1.25 DP machine, and had to send it back twice, as a very clunky sound emitted from the guts of the thing. After a month of this I gave up. I still have no computer on my desk, and I doubt Apple can supply me with a reliable machine in a decent time. I was equally not impressed with the speed of this thing, and it really had two processors? I was hoping this machine would cut through processing and rendering times, but found that it wasn't much faster than my G4/400. I must say that I felt like I got shafted when I plugged the box in. Warning to all you serious users out there: Don't buy now- wait!

It is pretty sad when your family has a snappier machine, for cheaper, and all they use it for is email! I love Apple and the operating system, but there comes a time when speed and support do matter, and that time has passed.

---------------------

I have a very similar apple tale. Apple store/support has not made me love apple more. FASTER / CHEAPER machines NOW! I feel a 1997 deja vu moment all over...

suggestion to apple worry less about serving lawsuits & threats to small fry apple loyalists and worry more about your failing hardware line.

 

[Mlobo01]

about speed and other OSs

I recommend we all need to read some of the prior posts here, some of the recent post have been addressed to in prior ones, We have discussed here design and speed, yes we all agree that Apple's dependancy on Moto has been overstayed, or has been complacent, however These tests are sort of like making an eating contest with an overweight man and a skinny man, lets see who eats the most fastest! the overweight man(XP) will eat faster but he will have trouble standing up, he might choke and have trouble breething, meanwhile the skinny man(OS X) might take his time, He wont have trouble getting up or need to loosen his belt, and afterwards be very comfortable, lets hope the skinny man knows CPR! The skinny man can eat, read, or do many things at the same time! which means that if your computer is properly optimized with RAM it will run multiple apps at the same time and better. you cannot do this on Windows! turn one app, off another on, on, off, on, off, this is the time that is waisted which is not taken into consideration due to it being simple tasks, these tests are no big deals since not everyone uses AE or PS7, most just use the basic apps. which in MS are still stiff and unrefined, the overweight man needs to loosen his tie! if you take into consideration that Mac users look forward to updates and are more aware of them, they spend more time on their machines because they want to! coming from work a Mac user looks forward to his desktop, and its not only about looking pretty its about quality, quality, quality! My Mac looks and feels like a design not a design from Fisher-Price, I loved them when I was a kid but now Im an adult! I need a grown-up design, sorry but I left my "Simon Says" toy a long time ago I dont need to revisit it in an MS OS or desktop, nor the other companie's tacky designs, I need more than just a box that has a TV on it.
2)In a network any Mac is a server or client, the interconnection is easy and quick, while in the overweight man's you need to do ten thousand things, theres time well spent there! or try and understand .NET, yet another concept looking for definition bahh! . Another test of time that Adobe does not take into consideration is the Crash time windows are prone too, while the Unix based OS X you can Force quit the app in question and Voila! no need to clean re-install
the hardrive, If they want to make it fare lets re-do the same tests with all apps open! and lets see whos fastest, oh Im sorry windows cant do that, that wouldnt be fare, not even if I use my trusted iMac DV 400mgz.

 

[Mlobo01]

email sent to Adobe PR dept...

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=22920
these threads are from Macrumors forum, I recently ran into this thread about Adobe posting an article about PCs preferred over Macs, if you read any of the articles mentioned in the link there is a lot of shock and a sort of betrayal factor that this article has caused, Im an avid Mac user and I don't think this message was appropriate since your company is a software company, Adobe makes software for both platforms, so why the interest in these distortions?, is it that ignorance runs rampant at Adobe today? does Adobe have an ulterior motive behind these tests? It was not wise and it was also a spit in the face of mac users, If there is political melodrama from management between the two companies it should stay behind the scenes, but let your management know its not taken lightly because its not civil and its the users who are subject to these anomalies, I can understand these kinds of statements coming from folks who do not know the difference between Unix and MS platforms but from a software company? from Adobe?
also these tests cater to the Mgz misconceptions, that most people don't fully get, but they think that its only good to have more, Im disturbed to think that the makers of my favorite application have even considered taking these tests seriously.
So before we go on comparing performance issues on platforms lets take into account the things that are flaky and don't work in some of Adobe's own applications, for example
why does "magic wand" does not work in illustrator 10.0? etc. I thought that Adobe was a company of integrity but now its left me with a lot of mistrust and a sense of loss.

 

[groov']

mlobo01 is wrong ...

hey mlobo,

i hink you have never worked with xp

my experience:

1. almost no crashes, my OSX crashes more often (especially since 10.2.4)

2. xp as an OS is faster, at least on 2.53 Ghz

3. you can do all sorts of prograams at the same time. I always have (with 512MB memory) dreamweaver, fireworks and flash open at the same time. Plus these days I look at the same time in one of my big screens corners with windows media player to tv-channels like bbc world and euronews to know whaT'S going on in Iraq. Plus MySQL server and PHP are constantly on in the background for creating database sites.

So i don't know where you are talking about.

You are right about windows 95 and 98. And yes XP is ugly, but it is a good OS in terms of getting your work done...

 

[Mlobo01]

I stand corrected then...

no problem...I just woke up, and I think the email I sent to Adobe is what really simmered me down, I think theres enough displacement in the world right now to start with more differences, what ever gets your work done, and if your happy its all good. I dont know if you have read prior posts in this thread but there seems to be more shock that a company like Adobe who is a software company who has had a long relationship with Apple, and I means its users mainly has come up with a statement of this kind, I dont mind if it came from a neutral, non software group, but we all enjoy Adobe products no matter what platform it is,
its sort of a betrayal in our eyes. Im a classical painter and speed is never taken into account in whatever I do, it takes me at least 4-5 days to finish a pencil rendering, does the Adobe filter come close to what I do with my own hand?
I dont think so, maybe a future photoshop 25.0
so my point is speed for me is one thing but not all, and I think that the statement or test coming from Adobe is the bigger upset, at least for me.
One of my closest friends has XP, which is my closest experience of it, and you are right I should of asked him for these nuances, but for some reason I take a quick look and Im sorry
I cant deal with looking at his computer let alone pretend I wanna know what makes it tick.
Another factor that I thought was unfair about Adobe is that its aware that Apple has only a 5%
share of the market, this makes the statement
redundant but it also makes it a backstab, I know some of the XP non Apple users dont get this but I get it, and I dont like it mainly because its unjustified and unfair, I though that Adobe was a company of integrity now Im just filled with mistrust and a sense of loss, Just imagine a close friend of yours bad mouthing you just because she or he is seeing someone with MONEY! and they want to look good for them on the account of this?
once you picture this you might get a sense of what this article has provoked. Thanks all and sorry for the prior statement. Mario

 

[ColdZero]

Adobe and Apple aren't friends, they are in business for themselves. If going with x86 because it makes them more money then all the power to them. Adobe doesn't "owe" Apple anything and Apple doesn't "owe" Adobe anything.

Even though I think the friend thing is a bad idea, here is a senario:

What about if you and your friend Steve like to play nintendo together *cough edit DV* at your house because you have a nintendo *cough Premier*. Then one day Steve gets a new and better nintendo *cough FCP* and then starts making fun of you to all your friends in public because his is faster. What then?

Another thing about these tests. How many times does Apple do Photoshop tests by themselves and then use them as a benchmark at MacWorld or on their site to say that Macs are faster than PCs? They never give any specs save for processor speed. They are done by Apple....so you know they are unbiased. Yet people will take those benchmarks and tout them as valid evidence that Macs are faster than PCs. Here somebody has provided way more information on the tests than every Apple benchmark combined and the results are torn apart. Does anybody think this is just a little hypocritical?

 

[beatle888]

Re: mlobo01 is wrong ...

Originally posted by groov'
hey mlobo,

i hink you have never worked with xp

my experience:

1. almost no crashes, my OSX crashes more often (especially since 10.2.4)

2. xp as an OS is faster, at least on 2.53 Ghz

3. you can do all sorts of prograams at the same time. I always have (with 512MB memory) dreamweaver, fireworks and flash open at the same time. Plus these days I look at the same time in one of my big screens corners with windows media player to tv-channels like bbc world and euronews to know whaT'S going on in Iraq. Plus MySQL server and PHP are constantly on in the background for creating database sites.

So i don't know where you are talking about.

You are right about windows 95 and 98. And yes XP is ugly, but it is a good OS in terms of getting your work done...

your OSX crashes all the time?
that is very strange. are you talking about an APPLICATION crashing or the OS crashing? i cant remember the last time i had a system crash.

p.s. heres my application load on my ti with 512 of ram i can have Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash, Safari, ichat, quickbooks AND itunes open and ive heard of people having even MORE then that open.