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I am calm.
Though you completely avoided responding to the obviously inconvenient points I raised. What a surprise.
So,when not making foolish and innacurate assumptions, it appears you prefer to run away. Heaven forbid you actually admit you may be wrong!

You're not calm

I didn't respond because you said the same hypocritical statement, but made it longer

And throwing words like foolish and inaccurate (two "C"s my friend) assumptions around doesn't make you correct about anything.

Like most posters, you are debating about my opinion using your own opinion. Then you claim that people that have not used an app are whining about, then give praise to the same app in the same situation.

Honestly, there is nothing to debate. You can love the image of CS4 all you want. It doesn't really matter to me, and I am not going to loose sleep arguing with some dude or dudette over a rumor forum. :rolleyes:
 
my biggest complaint with working on a 30" monitor is the visual clutter. I have to sit there and search for controls while I'm trying to concentrate on design.

Agreed 100%. The scattered, fragmented workspace is my only complaint with Apple. Stray windows and pallets floating all over the place, that have to constantly be moved out of the way from covering up the work, not to mention any other unrelated programs you have up in the background coming through making a visual jumble of it all. In a pile of twenty little pallets and windows, I'm constantly hunting for things. It's like working on a prototype on a cluttered workbench and all your tools and components in a big heap.

And yea, I like working with my "f" maximizing my document space too. Much like going to a museum and seeing a piece of artwork on a bare wall without a bunch of other visual elements around it distracting you from it, it makes it easier to visualize your work.

I don't understand why "Mac People" can't grasp this.

I'm glad it's at least an option.
 
I don't understand why "Mac People" can't grasp this.

I'm glad it's at least an option.

You do know that this isn't a "Mac"/"Non-Mac" thing.

It's more of an "unorganized inefficient worker"/"efficient worker" thing. Since I don't have an issue with that at all.

I personally don't understand how Windows People expand web browsers full screen on large displays leaving a lot of empty space. Also, their tenacity to have docs and shortcuts spread all over their desktop.
 
I agree, it's about being efficient. But for some reason, every Mac app I have has an interface that's scattered all over in a million pieces, and a quick search of "maximize, OS-X" illustrates how much Apple fans prefer this. Somehow, they seem to prefer to work in programs whose interfaces are fragmented and scattered all over the place, interspersed with documents of all types in a big pile as well. How that's efficient, I can't imagine.

I personally don't understand how Windows People expand web browsers full screen on large displays leaving a lot of empty space.

Well, sometimes, you just want a nice clear display with what your attention is focused on in the middle. On photo-heavy sites, often photos will be larger than the standard column with of the site, and it's a hassle to constantly have to resize your window. It's easier to just maximize it and have room. Anyway, when you're reading a site, what possible use would it be to have the corners of a pile of other programs jutting out from underneath? Anyway, if you need that, you at least have the option with the 'user' window size, as we have in osx. But in windows, you have everything open listed in the taskbar for instant access anyway, without requiring shuffling through open windows to find what you're looking for. If Safari would ever completely implement tabbed browsing, we wouldn't have every hyperlink opening a new page in a big pile on the desktop.

YAlso, their tenacity to have docs and shortcuts spread all over their desktop.

Agreed. Cluttered desktops full of a bunch of disorganized stuff buried back in C:windows/documents and settings/profile/desktop/etc... is bad form, yet de rigeur.

But I think the real reason windows users do a lot of this stuff is that they never really give any of it much thought. They buy a box with a stock win setup on it, and don't think, but just start doing, and before you know it, they've got a totally dysfunctional mess, which they don't even realize they made themselves, which they then complain about to their frustrated IT mgr.

The scattered interface is my only beef with OSX. And it's pretty minor, compared to everything thats backward about windows...
 
Well, sometimes, you just want a nice clear display with what your attention is focused on in the middle. On photo-heavy sites, often photos will be larger than the standard column with of the site, and it's a hassle to constantly have to resize your window. It's easier to just maximize it and have room. Anyway, when you're reading a site, what possible use would it be to have the corners of a pile of other programs jutting out from underneath?
My thoughts exactly.
My overwhelming impression of other people's Macs is that they are very cluttered as you have all these open windows overlapping each other, or you can see through programme to the desktop and programmes below, which the new version of PS [optionally] does away with, thank God. Messy. I prefer everything open full screen or full desktop, which is very fiddly to do on a Mac compared to a PC. Doubly difficult with multiple monitors.
A client I work with spends half his time dragging windows on and off screen with junk and shortcuts scattered all over desktop - oh and he's a Mac user. I cannot bear to watch him work as it's so painful.
As for transparency of Application structure which both Apple + MS are guilty of foisting on us :eek: - a good example of just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should do it. At least it was easy to turn off in Windows.


Anyway, if you need that, you at least have the option with the 'user' window size, as we have in osx. But in windows, you have everything open listed in the taskbar for instant access anyway, without requiring shuffling through open windows to find what you're looking for.
I use everything full screen on a Mac and have no trouble finding the Window I want as I simply Cmd+Tab to whichever app I want or Cmmd+` to cycle through Finder Windows, copied from the simpler/easier Alt+Tab on a PC. Though Expose is also very useful as is as you mention, the Taskbar in Windows.

If Safari would ever completely implement tabbed browsing, we wouldn't have every hyperlink opening a new page in a big pile on the desktop.
Like Opera has done for many, many years now? Opera is where FF nicks all their 'innovations' from BTW. Using other 'modern' browsers after Opera is like moving from OSX back to to OS7



Agreed. Cluttered desktops full of a bunch of disorganized stuff buried back in C:windows/documents and settings/profile/desktop/etc... is bad form, yet de rigeur.
So 90% of all computer users are disorganised and untidy? No lazy stereotyping there! :p
Besides as the desktop is errr... on the desktop, it's not buried but on full show.
Besides the obscure location you quote, doesn't even exist. It's actually
C:\Documents and Settings\NAME\Desktop
and on the Mac it's
MacHD/Users/NAME/Desktop
So no real difference. But hey why let facts get in the way of misinformation?

But I think the real reason windows users do a lot of this stuff is that they never really give any of it much thought. They buy a box with a stock win setup on it, and don't think, but just start doing, and before you know it, they've got a totally dysfunctional mess, which they don't even realize they made themselves, which they then complain about to their frustrated IT mgr.
Just like most Mac users who also do not know what they are doing or give the workings much thought. I'd say Mac users tend to know even less about tweaking, as the Mac marketing is all about ease of use and not having to think, which will obviously tend to attract those who don't like to think.
I've had to sort out Mac users computers for them as they've made a complete mess of everything, just like an equally ignorant Windows user. I'd say only Linux users will generally be computer savvy and that's because you have to be ito use it in first place.

As for the 'stock Win set up' comment. Well apart from the fact it's less stock and more varied than the standard Mac setup, Windows users can and do customise their interface a lot more that Mac users can or seem willing to do so. Besides most computer users have zero interest in computers inner workings and then why should they? Do you also mock drivers who do not fiddle with their stock engine management setings?

The scattered interface is my only beef with OSX. And it's pretty minor, compared to everything thats backward about windows...
I find both systems backward and clumsy in places, just in different places. My pet hate - Finder :eek: Complete garbage, Apple sometimes confuse simplistic with simple. Finder is the worst thing about any OS. I use a File Manager on my PC over the network to deal with File Management on the Mac as it's so much easier and waaaaaay faster in use.
It would be so nice to take the best of both systems and customize it to make one very good OS. I use both and I always think it the worst of al worlds as you are always thinking, 'damn I wish the PC/Mac did this like the Mac/PC did'.



You will also get less shortcuts/aliases on a Mac desktop simply as it is much fiddlier to do shortcuts compared to on a PC. Also shortcuts can be very useful time saving devices. Hence the term, shortcut.
 
It doesn't really look that much different from CS3. It does launch a lot faster, though.
 

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Yeah, just read that as well. I understand re-writing all that code takes time, but why wouldn't they get a 64-bit version out for OS X? I mean isn't Photoshop used mostly on Macs anyway?

I don't think so. I work for a gaming company with over 300 emp. And over half of those are PC base 3D system and they all have photoshop installed in their system for texturing, so our company alone has over 150 PC photoshop license. Previous game company I worked for had 1200 emp., so that company had over 600 photoshop licenses. When I was in VFX, all the companies I worked used PC photoshop license. The only time I worked on Mac license was a web company with we had 3 Mac licenses.
 
Yeah, just read that as well. I understand re-writing all that code takes time, but why wouldn't they get a 64-bit version out for OS X? I mean isn't Photoshop used mostly on Macs anyway?
Apart from the fact that PS is very common on PCs as mentioned above!
The reason why PS is not going to be 64 bit on the Mac is because Apple changed their mind about how apps should be written and there wasn't enough time to completely rewrite the planned 64bit Carbon version of PS as a 64bit Cocoa version in time for CS4.
Same as when Apple moved to Intel. Adobe had to rewrite their software to accomodate Apple's sudden change of direction. Being secretive to the point of not telling the people who write the major applications for your platform, only harms the end user. So yet again Apple users will be at a disadvantage compared to [64bit] PC users. Though for most people, it'll make no difference.
 
i absolutely hate that interface. seriously

That is awful.

I was thinking the opposite. Don't most users with multiple monitors work on one screen and keep their palettes on the other? There are a lot of things wrong with this.

Amen. I hate it. Not just because I am "used" to CS3, but because it makes the program very "windoze-esque."

Hey, does anyone know if CS4, or whatever adobe is planning on calling the next photoshop, will have the ability to use the new multi touch track pad on the macbook pros?

Wouldn't that be nice?

Correct it's impoosible to debate with a blinkered bigot who appears to have reading difficulties.

Ha- That's spelled impossible.:apple:
 
As for poor coding - Leopard is buggy, very buggy, one of the Geniuses in my local Apple store says he never uses a new Mac OS until update 4 or 5, now there's faith in your product. Other Mac using friends, have removed Leopard and gone back to previous version, because of the problems. I'm not saying Windows is bug free, far from it. But pretending Macs are perfect, only shows the extent of one's delusion.

What problems?? I've been using Leopard in a professional environment since November with no problems.

Who wants to use the old OS for a year just because you're scared of a few little bugs?
 
What problems?? I've been using Leopard in a professional environment since November with no problems.
Lucky bleeder. Well today's new issue was various Apps open, but not accessible and then beachball of doom until manually powered down. Last week's was Finder not being able to find 850G of data for two days. Currently Boot Camp assistant says my computer architecture is not supported. I had redraw problems [fixed by 10.5.4], Disk Utility weirdness.....
Also if you look at the bug fixes for the 4 updates so far, it's a big list.

Who wants to use the old OS for a year just because you're scared of a few little bugs?
Someone who works for Apple as an expert, fixing computers it seems!
 
Just thought I'd add [as NDA has expired] that the new interface is much nicer to use on both the Mac + PC, though it can still be improved upon. The PC interface has much better vertical screen estate usage, albeit with a weedy type that looks a bit well awful.

And for those who condemmed before even trying, try opening your minds a little. Change is how we progress, feel free to make an informed critique once you've learnt how to use it. And if you still don't like it, use the old interface, no problem.
 
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