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People will like this once they get used to it.

You're confusing "being forced to use it that way" and "indoctrination" with "getting used to it." They're different.

So far the only people complaining are those who don't like the price. I don't hear complaints about the functionality.

i have.

So what if it costs $50 a month. If you are using this suit to make money and not making $50 it's time to look for other work.

It's an ADDED expense to any existing business. Especially one that does not currently upgrade at every version (nor SHOULD they HAVE to).

If you don't like the price look at other options, Gimp is free as is Inkscape. There is Open Office and Google Docs and so on. You can do everything you want with free software.

That is utter nonsense. Inkscape is buggy and incomplete. Horrible. Gimp is a pain in the ass to operate and is missing professional features. Open Office and Google Docs aren't even relevant to this topic (though both ARE clumsy).

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... Adobe have been quite clear about this: Creative Cloud is about normalising the peaks and troughs in their own cash flow and is only about piracy in as much as it's a means of gouging the poor saps that actually pay for their software. It's a very bad deal for the vast majority of their customers but, because Adobe have a de facto monopoly in the design industry, they just don't care.

Time for a class action lawsuit (to make lawyers richer) or a antitrust lawsuit...?

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Other things you pay for by the month but don't get to own:

Your cable bill
Your Netflix bill
Your cell phone bill

And now your Adobe bill

If you stop any of those payment... you don't get to use the product anymore.
...

Your analogy is fatally flawed. You should be comparing to tools, NOT services.

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Creative Cloud has been available for some time. In that time Adobe has tested it's business model. The model of subscription holds up well again a user/company who upgrade at every cycle. I'm one of those and find cc to be a beneficial upgrade. Regular updates, cloud storage. Looks like the new apps have a more integrated approach. I don't think adobe sees a future in having their software ripped of by anyone with little snitch and/or access to their mac host file. Can you blame them?

Yes, i CAN blame them for treating PAYING customers as if they are potential pirates, instead of treating pirates as potential customers. Good service means that you give the benefit of the doubt to people; you don't presume guilt.

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For those who don't support the CC, please sign this petition. So far it has over 30,000 signatures. Not sure if it'll work, but it couldn't hurt.

Done. Frankly, i think online petitions are useless, but it doesn't hurt me to sign it.
 
Acrobat is still not optimized for retina? I thought with the CC release it would be.

Could it be that hard? They got Photoshop retina optimized and that would seem to be a much more complex app. This is disappointing :(

Completely different code base.

But you'd think they would have gotten to it, instead of putting developer time into anti-consumer stuff like regular check-ins and software bloat in products that don't need all the new junk they throw in every new version. Retina support is a worthwhile pay-for improvement. The rest, is not.
 
Some people do have a problem with that. And guess what, telecoms providers recognise this and offer other options, like 'pay as you go'. Besides, telecoms has always ever been charged on a metered basis. Because it is an actual service and there is no other viable way to charge for it.

Adobe, on the other hand, have completely reneged on a prior arrangement. Subscription is not being offered as an additional option for those who prefer it. It replaces the prior purchase arrangement of paying a lump sum to purchase versions for indefinite use. The two models are not intrinsically mutually exclusive. But Adobe are attempting to redefine their software products as services, by muddling them up with some actual cloud services. The services are in fact cloud based offerings but the programs are still products that have to be downloaded and hosted on the users computer. To describe it any other way is nothing more than flim-flam.

That said. Many are happy to rent the software, no problem with that. Though I'm a bit puzzled as to why Adobe no longer want the few hundred quid they would get off of me every few years under the prior arrangement, (since 1997 and for the foreseeable otherwise). Fine by me, so long as CS6 runs ok on the new Mac Pro promised later this year.

It is a little strange to say they reneged on a prior arrangement. They changed their business model for the new versions. This model probably brings them a lot more paying users. I am ok if you don't like the model. I think they should offer options, but they have not taken anything away from you.

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just updated all my CC apps, applied the 49kb patch on PB that stops CC from phoning home after 180 days and canceled my account. they got greedy, i turned to pirating.


Didn't you agree to pay the for year? Every pricing plan says:

Requires annual commitment; billed monthly
 
Absolutely. For me as a buyer of the Design Standard Suite the price to use the software has trippled, but how dare I complain! People should just shut up and be glad that we have such friendly corporations ripping us off. If the price of all goods at the supermarket would tripple without a reason we shouldn't complain too, because the supermarket needs to make profit.
...

Exactly. Welcome to the amorality of capitalism. Capitalists like to say it's the only ethical system, which is a gross irony because it's actually the total opposite. Every time a company does something anti-consumer and people get pissed off, some capitalist wannabe comes along and says "that's business; right and wrong are irrelevant. Their purpose is to make money. Deal with it."

Lovely system we got here.

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just updated all my CC apps, applied the 49kb patch on PB that stops CC from phoning home after 180 days and canceled my account. they got greedy, i turned to pirating.

And that is a self-inflicted wound that Adobe will cry foul about with great volume.
 
It is a little strange to say they reneged on a prior arrangement. They changed their business model for the new versions. This model probably brings them a lot more paying users. I am ok if you don't like the model. I think they should offer options, but they have not taken anything away from you.

They have taken an upgrade path away from you. If you upgrade to a perpetual licence and pay no more, you are left with the software. If you upgrade to a subscription model and stop paying, you are left without the software.

Adobe is not very clear about this distinction on their website. (A small entry in their CC FAQ).
 
These are the kinds of things that tick me off. Not that I'm a tin-foil hat guy, but it's photo editing software for crying out loud. WHY should it have to connect to the internet to work?!
It has to connect to the Internet to work because you don't own the software anymore you are just renting it.
 
So - Adobe have finally killed Fireworks and rendered Dreamweaver nothing more than an overblown CSS editor.

i felt like that from the LAST version. What did they remove THIS time???

Apparently if you want to develop a usable, functional site, Dreamweaver is no longer for you. What's the point on spending all that money and then having to code by hand - we have coda - or even textedit for that. I know all of this can be done by hand, I'm capable of doing it - but my reason for using Dreamweaver was so that I didn't have to - this wasn't a minor tool within dreamweaver, it was most of the usable functionality.

The last time i tried to do a simple web site, i was confounded by the inability to do so in Dreamweaver. It wanted to do CSS for everything. WHY?? i'm not making monstrous corporate websites!! The experience made me long for Microsoft Front Page, if you can believe that.
 
Not a fan at all of this subscription service.

Guess I'll be sticking with my CS 5 no not 5.5 until I really have to give in. Not a fan at all of this subscription service. Hopefully sales will be so low Adobe will revert back.
 
Anyone know why these updates are not being offered through the Adobe CC Application (where you normally update)? If I need to download and install them all separately, I guess I can, but isn't the whole point of the app to make all that easy? Other updates have always been offered through the app, I don't know why the new ones are not.
 
$50/mo is ridiculous. That's actually more expensive than buying the master suite and upgrading it for a few years. Adobe really must be excited about their new "pay forever, own nothing" model.

No, it's not. Master Suite was $2,600 (and didn't even include Lightroom), so you'd need to use it for nearly 4 1/2 years before you recovered the cost of CC at $600/yr. At which point it would be hopelessly out of date with your OS, plugins, and other apps you use with it.

If you're just a guy who wants to noodle around in Photoshop a bit, I get it. It's expensive and impractical. But for professionals, I think it's great. You have a fixed price, don't need to make painful decisions about when/if to upgrade, and always have the very latest versions of everything they make.
 
Read the materials you idiot. You don't need an internet connection to use CC apps.

Consider all the possible user scenarios, "you idiot." You do indeed need an internet connection to use CC, if it has decided that it's time to check with Adobe again. If you're on the move a lot with a laptop, and have iffy internet access on a regular basis, you can and probably will run into problems.

The finer point is that this just further abuses the consumer and assumes everyone is a pirate. Funny thing is, this will lead more people to BE pirates.

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... Especially as Adobe is running out of ideas (fewer nifty updates per release compels fewer people to spend money, so conjure up a lease licensing scheme and voila... free income and no real effort ever has to be put into it by Adobe ever again.)...

Here's a nifty update idea: OPTIMIZE THE CODE and REMOVE THE JUNK. Faster software by way of more efficient code can be a feature. It's a more compelling feature to me, at least.

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Businesses that maximize income should be punished and boycotted. /s

Businesses that maximize income by abusing and ripping off monopolized consumers should be punished and boycotted.

No "/s".
 
It's simple, just don't buy it. All these arguments are stupid.

I like Adobes products, I like subscription model pricing so I'm a customer. If that is not you, go use Corels garbage software and shut up.
 
It is a little strange to say they reneged on a prior arrangement. They changed their business model for the new versions.

Are you having a laugh? What's strange? - You clearly do understand that they've replaced, abandoned, revoked the prior, well established software purchase arrangement with a new rental model.

I am ok if you don't like the model. I think they should offer options, but they have not taken anything away from you.


I didn't say I didn't like the model. I don't really care for it or about it and I won't be adopting it. They've taken away the long standing option of purchasing perpetual version licenses as and when I please. A customer arrangement that I have had with Adobe since 1997 and would have no doubt continued with for the foreseeable future. So, I lose future updates to the 'works in progress' that are Adobe Photoshop and Illustrator and Adobe loses my patronage.


Didn't you agree to pay the for year? Every pricing plan says:

Requires annual commitment; billed monthly

Must have reneged on that. - Seems it's the done thing these days ;)
 
Tell me - what's so amazing about a newer version of PS than CS6? I can't even find anything that's in PS CS6 that I use, which wasn't in CS5,4,3,2,1...


BOOM! Adobexplosion!


The cloud is a new trend for many things, and useful for a few of them - this is just milking a trend for the sake of it; Adobe, you need to wake up - the only thing that I need that's in the cloud is water! :p
 
I've always been required to be up to date. I work a lot with design studios and advertising agencies and the second one of them upgrades I have to follow suit. This of course is due to the fact that Adobe, in their infinite wisdom, don't allow older versions of their software to open files created in newer versions. It's always seemed unprofessional to have to ask for everyone to downgrade files for me so I can open them.

Photoshop has always been more forgiving with this, allowing users to stay on an older version for much longer. But I do understand your point of view.


My experience with Adobe software has mainly been with Creative Suite and files that I worked with were saved as PSD files which can be opened with older versions of the software, at least from my own experience. Personally, I've never been required to be completely up-to-date and many of the working professionals I have met in the field are still using earlier versions of Creative Suite (mostly CS3-CS5). In the last year, I have met very few people who are using CS6 like I am.

The one concern I do have in all of this is with future cameras and Camera RAW. Adobe never updates the Camera RAW plug in for early versions once a new version of CS is out. So that means I need to be sure that what ever camera I buy in the future is compatible with CS6 or use some sort of workaround.


Photoshop by itself is $19.99 a month, and if you own CS3 or more, it's only $9.99 a month the first year. So $1079.40 total if you own CS3 or higher for 5 years, and $1199.40 total if you don't own Photoshop at all. You would spend at least $1100 if you didn't own it with the $199 upgrades every 18 months, so the pricing isn't all that different, and you get constant upgrades.

The other option for most people is to BUY Lightroom 5. As a professional photographer, I can do 95% of my editing in Lightroom, and it's only $149 to buy, and only $79 to upgrade.


I have had bought and paid for 4 versions of Photoshop in the past 8 years for less than what you calculated. My upgrade cycle is more like 4-6 years, which I also imagine to be the average among most working professionals.

I'm not into baby/dumbed down software like Lightroom or Aperture for the not so tech savvy photographers. My digital workflow consists of Photoshop AND Bridge.


Not the same comparison.
If their usual practice is anything to go by, backwards compatibility of files (PS excepted) sucks. So...
Say I sign up for CC. Next year the subscription rate goes up big time (it could happen with Adobe) and hey, suddenly I'm in a hole. I either pay up or I lose access to all my work. MY WORK, that I created over the last year.

If you want to become Adobe's bitch then go ahead. Me, I'll stick at CS6 while I look for alternatives. After all, when Quark acted like this they created an opportunity for another company to step in and take the crown. Now, who was that?


100% agreed.

What these guys don't realize is a cable bill or Netflix is a consumable service and it's poor thinking to equate software to consumable services. Can you just imagine how these guys would react if iOS or Mac apps or even the operating system itself worked on a subscription?
 
I'm not into baby/dumbed down software like Lightroom or Aperture for the not so tech savvy photographers. My digital workflow consists of Photoshop AND Bridge.
Wow, did you really just say that? Better tell all those top photographers who use it every day they are playing with a toy and not a real application, they might not know that. Get the word out!
 
GIMP... lol. Useful for a few quick knock-up images, but as useful as a butter knife in a steak eating contest for *serious* work; it's a great effort (in more than one way :( ), but Photoshop is the de-facto graphics and photographic manipulation standard.
 
No, it's not. Master Suite was $2,600 (and didn't even include Lightroom), so you'd need to use it for nearly 4 1/2 years before you recovered the cost of CC at $600/yr. At which point it would be hopelessly out of date with your OS, plugins, and other apps you use with it.

If you're just a guy who wants to noodle around in Photoshop a bit, I get it. It's expensive and impractical. But for professionals, I think it's great. You have a fixed price, don't need to make painful decisions about when/if to upgrade, and always have the very latest versions of everything they make.

I'm willing to bet a large majority of CS users do not want, nor need the entire creative suite. However they probably do need several apps. That's where the different suites came in (design, production, etc.). So as a Production Premium customer I am now paying more for software I don't even want.


Piracy is not theft.

That semantical argument is just something you guys use to justify your actions. It's lame.
 
shills.... ya think?

I'm guessing that there are some Adobe paid shills in this thread.

maybe just a few, lol.

I have been a long-time user since pshop 1.0, and once had great affection for the company. This was inevitable, it is what happens when substantial innovation fails. It is what happens when your professional power users routinely version skip with little downside and great fiscal gain. Over the years there have some great productivity leaps, but mostly the changes in the latter years were akin to adding "more" speed buttons to a blender. Really. Refresh your memory here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop_version_history

Also, there was a move away from macs, and a move to appeal to the larger user base in the pc-world. No matter that at the time the power-users were largely mac based. Releases lagged behind for us mac-folks, and it was clear we were not as desired as customers. Interface shifts starting making the working environment more pc-like as well. The love affair hit the rocks for many of us.

Then Adobe started playing around with their suite package editions and their upgrade pricing. Suite packages never quite matched up any more, and as for upgrade discounts they were meager. It was clear that they were just seeking ways to extract annual amounts of revenue from its users, and that amount would be more (contra to how Apple has been pricing its software). Whereas Aperture was originally targeted to be around $499, it steadily went DOWN in price, and is now selling for $79 (much to the horror of Adobe). This is the track record for most of Apple's software pricing. Cost goes down, performance and features goes up.

Back to the feature creep approach of Adobe...
for all the new bells and whistles we got, how many did we really need or ask for? How much of a functional workflow change was there from the early days? (not much) I switched my imaging workflow from 100% photoshop to maybe 5% pshop. I use Aperture and the Nik/Google suite and my workflow is nothing like it was before (and for the better). Furthermore where it used to take 5-7 days to teach a professional the basics in pshop, I could do the same thing in 5-7 hours for Aperture & Nik. Yes, one still needs pshop for some things (layer compositing, type, cmyk conversion, sizing), but the essential workload is down outside photoshop. I can do things quickly that would be difficult or impossible to do using photoshop (or even harder to explain the process).

The notion of design studios & agencies having to have the most recent version of programs is largely a myth. Almost every ad file is provided as a flattened PDF these days. It used to be true, but it simply isn't anymore (and is why Adobe is making a greedy & desperate effort to extract more revenue from its customers). For everyone who thinks it is pennies a day and a bargain, good for you. For MOST of us, we do not need everything in the suite, and can get by with an older version here and there. I have been doing this for many, many years... I know an awful lot of professionals who are muddling by with CS2, CS3, CS4, CS5 and doing just fine.

When a company has to come up with convoluted matrixes that explain the suite packages, it is a bad sign. It looks more like Microsoft's approach to OS packages, than anything Apple would do.

So, some of you may grab the shiny apple of distraction and jump onto "its a great deal" bandwagon. Good luck to you. I find the concept a disturbing trend, much like the trend of some software packages/platforms wanting to charge on a per use basis (no thanks). Time will tell whether this gambit/scheme pays off for Adobe or not. I hope it fails in a spectacular fashion.

cheers.
 
I'm guessing that there are some Adobe paid shills in this thread.

There are more of them in the MS Office thread. It's a new form of direct marketing that cannot be controlled. :p But this is just the same situation in the iOS vs Android threads. ;)

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Businesses that maximize income should be punished and boycotted. /s

Re-read my post.
 
Wow, did you really just say that? Better tell all those top photographers who use it every day they are playing with a toy and not a real application, they might not know that. Get the word out!


Yes I did.

This is analogous to my belief that although photography as a craft is not solely dependent on the technology, I believe cameras like a Canon Rebel and a Nikon D5100 are toys that many use while they call themselves "professionals".
 
Yes I did.

This is analogous to my belief that although photography as a craft is not solely dependent on the technology, I believe cameras like a Canon Rebel and a Nikon D5100 are toys that many use while they call themselves "professionals".
The difference between calling a 5100 a non-pro camera and Lightroom a baby/dumbed down photography tool is so hysterically detached from reality it undermines your position.
 
This may have come up, I haven't checked!

Apologies if this has been mentioned, haven't had time to go through 10 pages!

Love to hear Adobe CC fanboys justification for a higher prices for non US monthly fee for CC.

In the UK it's £46.88 = $73.30 currently. Why? What uplift in there costs requires a 32% price hike outside of the US? No delivery of physical disk BS now. And I bet they're are more Adobe users worldwide than in the US! By a factor of x2??

And they're not on a rip off Model! Yeh right oh!
 
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