Adobe Releases New Creative Cloud Apps

[hexcalibur]

Remember music piracy?

Unless you're busy kissing Adobe's a** you will see the obvious response many, many people will have to this CC money-grab. If I sign up now for a year, and at the end of the year *give up access* to future updates to the software in exchange for installing a simple hack that convinces the software to keep running on my computer...are you really so in thrall of the corporation that you're calling me a pirate? How much money do I have to give Adobe before I'm allowed to use their software on my computer without your approval? Before at least I could decide not to upgrade if the added functionality didn't seem worth it. Now, they won't even have the same incentive to improve the software, since all us suckers will be paying every month whether the "updates" are worth-while or not.

More to the point, if it is becomes trivially easy to trick CC apps out of phoning home, most people will show Adobe all the deference they showed the music labels in the 90's. This perpetual license ********* is making it easy for people to justify software piracy, and it's going to sting Adobe bad in a year or so. They've badly misjudged human nature here, unless they intend to let users keep access to their software -- minus updates -- after they've paid for that access for a year or more.

 

[jafingi]

This will be a challenge for the hacker community . But I think nothing is impossible to them ..

It's already cracked (both Windows and OSX)

 

[HiRez]

More to the point, if it is becomes trivially easy to trick CC apps out of phoning home, most people will show Adobe all the deference they showed the music labels in the 90's. This perpetual license ********* is making it easy for people to justify software piracy, and it's going to sting Adobe bad in a year or so.

They're probably a lot more concerned with large corporations who use many licenses and working professionals, who can afford the product if they're making money with it. I doubt they care that much if Billy Bob in Iguana, FL who wants to paste girls in front of pictures of his truck finds a way to get around paying for it. In any case, if it is too expensive or the terms to strict, the market will decide to not pay for it and they'll be forced to change, right?

 

[jordanm86]

I don't think people are grasping the situation - most software is hackable.

Adobe have not aimed to eradicate all piracy from their software - it would be futile. What they have done is create a subscription service which is a more financially viable solution for smaller teams and individuals (a lot of whom would previously pirate the software). They are trying to coax people from pirating it to paying for it.

There's a lot of moaning about the price and not actually owning the software. Comments such as "if i decide to take a year break, I lose all my files"! Well if you store them on the CC space then yes, the same way if you put your files on any cloud storage or hosting service and stop paying for a year, you'll lose them!

I am self employed and for what I do I need all the applications (Master Collection). This previously would have cost me just under $4k (i'm sure it would be less in the US but for the UK that is what the GBP would convert to).

Now I pay $50 a month, so $600 a year, which would mean I get almost 7 years of use before it matches the price of Master Collection. In my industry, I need to be on the latest or at least second latest version to be able to work with others, open files without having to downsave and open files with new features, so CC actually saves me money.

Before all the pirates pipe up and say "well it's not as good as free", well yes but there's two reasons I won't pirate the software:

Firstly, I am running a business, not just playing about on a few applications. That means if my business gets audited, they will rifle through everything and having hooky software probably won't go down well.

Secondly, because it is a software subscription, it becomes an expense like telephone line rental (as opposed to buying it flat out and it being an asset). It's tax deductible and gives more of a structured way of expensing (as opposed to randomly buying versions and having to work out depreciation etc).

 

[iMikeT]

The difference between calling a 5100 a non-pro camera and Lightroom a baby/dumbed down photography tool is so hysterically detached from reality it undermines your position.

Why don't you try and bring me back to reality then?

 

[Dambuster43]

$30 per month for me being a Cs5 user. Pfft. No thanks adobe. For users like me that do a bit of work occasionally were now forced into a subscription or else we don't get the latest version or access to our files. Come back when this fee platform fails for you. Until then im sticking with my CS5.....which was a cheap download anyway......because its a rip off.

I am up on the Central coast...photographer.....just looked on your website...Respect!

 

[danahn17]

I'm curious how many of those who are upset over this new direction have a legit, paid-for copy of Photoshop or Illustrator or any of the Creative Suite applications.

I'm not sure how I feel about it either. On one end, in the short term, it IS a cheaper option (esp with student discount). But on the other hand, over the long term it could potentially be more expensive (especially if you don't need to buy an upgrade each time a new version comes out).

I do think that the people involved with the software creation should be paid... and at least for me, the number of people I know with pirated copies of Adobe's products far outweigh the number of people who actually paid for it. Could be just me though.

I feel that Adobe was just put in a tough spot... how to get people to pay for their products and make money while dealing with piracy etc. Not an easy answer for that problem...

 

[benwiggy]

I am self employed and for what I do I need all the applications (Master Collection).

Really? You use: Photoshop Extended, After Effects, Illustrator, Adobe Audition, InDesign, SpeedGrade, Acrobat, Prelude, Flash® Professional, Encore, Dreamweaver, Bridge, Fireworks, Media Encoder, Adobe Premiere Pro AND Flash Builder Premium???

The vast majority of pros will focus on a few apps. Work in a publishing house? InDesign, with Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat in decreasing order of necessity.
Web Design? Dreamweaver and all the Flash nonsense.
Video? Premiere Pro and a couple of others.

The hard sell that "you get all the apps" is not a big selling point for most people.

Those for whom it might be a benefit, schools and colleges, are already complaining massively about the increased fees for multiple users. And if schools turn away from Adobe, businesses will have to pay more for staff training, or look for alternatives.

 

[Jim Campbell]

I am self employed and for what I do I need all the applications (Master Collection). This previously would have cost me just under $4k (i'm sure it would be less in the US but for the UK that is what the GBP would convert to).

Now I pay $50 a month, so $600 a year, which would mean I get almost 7 years of use before it matches the price of Master Collection. In my industry, I need to be on the latest or at least second latest version to be able to work with others, open files without having to downsave and open files with new features, so CC actually saves me money.

Well, yes, CC will save you money if you convert the GBP price into USD and then compare it to the USD price for a US subscription. However, if you're based in the UK (which I assume you are from your convoluted post) then you will not pay the equivalent of $50/mth, you'll pay nearly $75/mth.

The full retail box price for the CS6 Master Collection was around £2700, so, at £50/mth, it would take you just over four years to spend the same amount via CC. However, the upgrade price of the Master Collection was usually around £650-£700, meaning that if you already own a copy, you're paying the upgrade price every year.

I — who only need Design Standard — am expected to pay the Master Collection upgrade price every year. That's the equivalent of paying the full retail box price of Design Standard every two years.

Also, you claim that you won't 'lose' your files if you don't keep them in Adobe's cloud. Technically, that's true — they'll still be on you hard drive, but how do you propose to open those .indd, .psd, and .ai files without InDesign, Illustrator and Photoshop?

You may have convinced yourself that this is a good deal for you, but you've stretched both logic and basic maths beyond breaking point in order to do so.

 

[iMikeT]

Really? You use: Photoshop Extended, After Effects, Illustrator, Adobe Audition, InDesign, SpeedGrade, Acrobat, Prelude, Flash® Professional, Encore, Dreamweaver, Bridge, Fireworks, Media Encoder, Adobe Premiere Pro AND Flash Builder Premium???

The vast majority of pros will focus on a few apps. Work in a publishing house? InDesign, with Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat in decreasing order of necessity.
Web Design? Dreamweaver and all the Flash nonsense.
Video? Premiere Pro and a couple of others.

The hard sell that "you get all the apps" is not a big selling point for most people.

Those for whom it might be a benefit, schools and colleges, are already complaining massively about the increased fees for multiple users. And if schools turn away from Adobe, businesses will have to pay more for staff training, or look for alternatives.

For the people who claim to use all those apps, I say they're nothing more than a wannabe "Jack of all trades" but in reality, a master of none.

As for schools, I've spoken to a few people in charge of my school's creative arts/multimedia department, which includes illustration, photography, design, etc. and they're not happy with this change. They're definitely sticking with CS6 for the foreseeable future until more affordable solutions can be sought.

 

[Jim Campbell]

I feel that Adobe was just put in a tough spot... how to get people to pay for their products and make money while dealing with piracy etc. Not an easy answer for that problem...

The answer to piracy is not to come up with a new payment scheme that robs the people who already pay for the software.

 

[JGRE]

Yes... you get to keep your phone hardware... but it won't do much good without the service.

Adobe went from a software company to a software-as-a-service company.

No one has a problem paying for a cell phone subscription the rest of their lives... why not pay for access to the Adobe software you use to run your business?

You are comparing apples and pears. A service is alsways conected with a monthly fee, as there is no other way of providing it. This was no different in 1970.

The new trick of "leasing" products and providing people with "a right of use" is a new trend. It actually might work for some heavy users, but for the majority, they will only be paying more money for less. They trick you in buying stuff as the monthly charge does not seem that much (when you buy stuff you need to provide your own finance). A lot of people however will get into problems as their monthly income will be wasted be all these charges (not only Adobe, but also MS with office 365, the Xbox one and so on and on) as they will probably not be able to cancel the subscription on a daily/monthly basis. Bottom-line, companies don't want to make you happy; they just want your money.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Really? You use: Photoshop Extended, After Effects, Illustrator, Adobe Audition, InDesign, SpeedGrade, Acrobat, Prelude, Flash® Professional, Encore, Dreamweaver, Bridge, Fireworks, Media Encoder, Adobe Premiere Pro AND Flash Builder Premium???

The vast majority of pros will focus on a few apps. Work in a publishing house? InDesign, with Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat in decreasing order of necessity.
Web Design? Dreamweaver and all the Flash nonsense.
Video? Premiere Pro and a couple of others.

The hard sell that "you get all the apps" is not a big selling point for most people.

Those for whom it might be a benefit, schools and colleges, are already complaining massively about the increased fees for multiple users. And if schools turn away from Adobe, businesses will have to pay more for staff training, or look for alternatives.

Good point. There probably aren't that many people who use EVERY piece of software Adobe makes.

I wish they offered cheaper versions of Creative Cloud based on the old versions of Creative Suite: Design Standard, Design & Web Premium, Production Premium, and Master Collection.

Maybe $30 a month for any of the smaller packages... and $50 a month for everything.

This "all you can eat" plan probably isn't necessary for too many people.

I am currently a Creative Cloud member... and I'm happy with it. But I mainly use Photoshop, Premiere Pro, Encore and Dreamweaver. On the bright side... I want to learn After Effects... so it's there when I have time to teach myself. And I used Illustrator once when someone sent me a logo... and Acrobat to edit an existing PDF. It's nice to have access to all those apps if I need them. Lightroom looks great too.

But honestly... I could actually get by with what used to be Production Premium.

Oh well... I'm still happy with Creative Cloud. I'm not about to ditch all Adobe software and search for alternatives. Having used Adobe products for many, many years... I'm very comfortable with it.

Here's the one problem I have with Adobe's pricing: You can subscribe to one product for $20 a month... which means two products for $40 a month.

Or 37 products for $50 a month.

There's no middle ground...

 

[Michael Scrip]

You are comparing apples and pears. A service is alsways conected with a motnly fee, as there is no other way of providing it. This was no different in 1970.

The new trick of "leasing" products and providing people with "a right of use" is a new trend. It actually might work for some heavy users, but for the majority, they will only be paying more money for less. They trick you in buying stuff as the monthly charge does not seem that much (when you buy stuff you need to provide your own finance). A lot of people however will get into problems as their monthly income will be wasted be all these charges (not only Adobe, but also MS with office 365, the Xbox one and so on and on) as they will probably not be able to cancel the subscription on a daily/monthly basis. Bottom-line, companies don't want to make you happy; they just want your money.

All I was saying was this:

You pay monthly for: your office rent... your cell phone... your office phone... your office internet connection... and countless other things too if you own your own business.

It wouldn't be unusual for pay monthly for software if that's what you had to do.

I know it's different than the way Adobe used to do it... but I still don't think it's a deal-breaker.

 

[DanielSw]

It may SEEM like there are a lot of protesters to the new CC business model, but there are most likely FAR MORE customers who have made and will make the switch and enjoy the convenience and far greater access to more great Adobe tools which just keep improving to enable them to do their jobs faster and better. The grumblers have merely been given a wake up call, and they don't like it for various reasons, none of which will matter to us or Adobe, now or in the long run. On the contrary, this change will enhance both Adobe's ability to thrive in the ever-evolving digital age, and enhance its customers' ability to increase their productivity. It's a welcome change for us. I can't wait to learn and try out the new CC features!

 

[Ciclismo]

Comments such as "if i decide to take a year break, I lose all my files"! Well if you store them on the CC space then yes, the same way if you put your files on any cloud storage or hosting service and stop paying for a year, you'll lose them!

I think you may have misunderstood - the question is, if you stop paying the subscription, does the software still work, you just don't get the updates? At the moment it looks like, however, that the software will cease functioning, therefore you are no longer able to access any projects until you renew your subscription.

 

[jacobj]

Yes I did.

This is analogous to my belief that although photography as a craft is not solely dependent on the technology, I believe cameras like a Canon Rebel and a Nikon D5100 are toys that many use while they call themselves "professionals".

My workflow generally consists of both apps, although any heavy increase in the DR is best done in PS. I use a Nikon D800.

I consider myself an amateur.

However I disagree with you. Millions of great shots are taken that require very little processing apart from a gentle contrast boost. You seem to be making work for yourself so as to be able to wear a badge that says I am a pro. The tool is just a tool and great shots don't always require the best tools. If you go to ps every time then it strikes me that you are all too eager to make up for what you lacked in the field. A lie is always a lie and I have never seen a great photo of a poor field shot. I have seen a great photo of a great shot that never went near PS.

I am sure you are a pro, but greater photographers than you don't use PS and your use of it won't lift you to their level. Field work will.

 

[mlblacy]

It may SEEM like there are a lot of protesters to the new CC business model, but there are most likely FAR MORE customers who have made and will make the switch and enjoy the convenience and far greater access to more great Adobe tools which just keep improving to enable them to do their jobs faster and better. The grumblers have merely been given a wake up call, and they don't like it for various reasons, none of which will matter to us or Adobe, now or in the long run. On the contrary, this change will enhance both Adobe's ability to thrive in the ever-evolving digital age, and enhance its customers' ability to increase their productivity. It's a welcome change for us. I can't wait to learn and try out the new CC features!

and thank you for the press release...

 

[Jim Campbell]

The grumblers have merely been given a wake up call, and they don't like it for various reasons, none of which will matter to us or Adobe, now or in the long run. On the contrary, this change will enhance both Adobe's ability to thrive in the ever-evolving digital age, and enhance its customers' ability to increase their productivity. It's a welcome change for us. I can't wait to learn and try out the new CC features!

Wow. Did Adobe pay you for that little gem?

CC works for you: great. I'm not suggesting that Adobe shouldn't implement it for the tiny, tiny fraction of their customer base who upgrade Master Collection on an annual basis and will thus save money and for any other credulous idiot who wants to sign up for it.

Pre-CC, Adobe had already indicated that they intended to end upgrade pricing from any but the most recent prior CS version, and I would have accepted that given that it still gave me the option to buy a Suite that matched my needs; pick the time of upgrade; and, crucially, be able to use my software month-in, month-out, regardless of my cashflow position.

 

[Hell0W0rld]

I really happy with adobe!

For a design student, having to pay 19.99 for all their apps is much better than paying thousands of dollars. It's just like leasing a car.

Except that after a few years you get the option to buy the car for a discounted price and can use it forever with Creative Cloud you can't.

 

[MrNomNoms]

I really happy with adobe!

For a design student, having to pay 19.99 for all their apps is much better than paying thousands of dollars. It's just like leasing a car.

Which is a load of crap given that you could have bought an academic priced perpetual licence for Master Collection for under US$500 up front. It never cost students 'thousands' given that Adobe always sold academic versions of their applications.

 

[snipper]

We asked pay-per-hour, so you can keep it legal and affordable. Instead they offer us pay-per-month, which is less affordable in the long run.

We want to own, they offer a hire.

And then the elephant in the room: What about de NSA looking over your shoulder at every mouse click you make, since Adobe is a US company?

I'll say what everybody thinks: Cracked software looks even more attractive compared to CC.

 

[jacobj]

I am relatively new to PS and have always been on the subscription model. For me it is a more affordable option in the short to mid term as I never would have paid the full price. Therefore I am ok with this method I charging. However if I had already gone ahead with an initial outlay and was only upgrading on every other cycle: I would hate this. The resolution would surely be that this was a lease to purchase agreement where the user could opt to settle the difference to the current upgrade price if they wanted to freeze their subscription. So lets say I bought 3 years ago, there have been 2 upgrades since; adobe could see that as a 1 full plus 2 upgrade total price. If I had paid 3 years then they could subtract the total paid and ask me to pay the difference for a permanent .

This allows those that lose the revenue stream to be able to afford the app to carry on in this profession whilst things pick up. They could re activate their account if required and carry on.

This accounting isn't hard and could easily be implemented. The issue is that adobe had no compelling reason to do so and therefore won't. It's never customers first, no matter what bull they come out with.

 

[samcraig]

There's no reason they can't offer both options. A fully downloadable - no subscription needed or a leasing option for those that would benefit from having a lower price point and who might not otherwise have given Adobe a dime because they were getting an illegal copy.

 

[BillyBobBongo]

There's no reason they can't offer both options. A fully downloadable - no subscription needed or a leasing option for those that would benefit from having a lower price point and who might not otherwise have given Adobe a dime because they were getting an illegal copy.

On Adobe's forums Mike Chambers covers this...

We haven't said that we "cannot" do perpetual, we have said that given that we believe the right direction for the future is around the Creative Cloud model, we are going to focus on making that a sucess. Focus being the key word. We could do 50 million things, but we have decide to focus on the thing which we think is the most important for the future.

Of course, a lot of people disagree with what we think the right future path is, or just may not like that path. We understand that, and are working to address some of the concerns.

mike chambers

His last sentence would seem to suggest that they may at least produce another option for those who do not like their Creative Cloud only approach. Only time will tell on that however.

Link - http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1206294?start=720&tstart=0