ADOBE TO ACQUIRE MACROMEDIA

[mkwilson68]

Good and bad

On the plus side, Macromedia app's may now get some decent quality control.

On the negative, they may kill Fireworks (which would be a disaster for the webdesign industry in general), and there's no-one competing with Adobe now - not a good position to be in as a customer: they can pretty much do and charge what they like now.

Monopoly, anyone?

 

[wordmunger]

Why is everyone saying this is bad? I think it's a great move. I personally have never used any of Macromedia's products.

I think you've explained why you don't understand quite well. No need to go on.

It's bad because with no competition in the web page design field, Adobe can (A) increase prices, (B) slash R&D expenditures, (C) cut products, or (D) all of the above.

 

[mkwilson68]

Fireworks must not die...

Fireworks is being added to the dead list too easily here. If Adobe has any sense at all, they will update it into the complete design solution for on-screen graphics it should always have been. PhotoShop is not that software, and should not try to be (or it will simply get more bloated). ImageReady assumes that screen layouts can be created well in PS and just need 'slicing' to be ready for the web, which is such out of date thinking it's not funny.

Fireworks is, from the ground up, object-oriented. The vector-based objects are what make it so powerful for screen layout: it's a great blend of features for screen-based layouts. PS is *much* more oriented towards print/image editing, and should stay that way.

Adobe - please do the RIGHT thing and invest in Fireworks... there is a massive market for this product (the entire global web design community for starters) and you will never be able to make PhotoShop as productive a tool for the same tasks. And if they're good at different things, we will buy both, not one or the other. That has to make sense: keep PS as the generic heavyweight image editor, and make FW the killer screen design app. If anything, kill off ImageReady as it's functionality is largely available in PS anyway.

Imagine this suite:
PhotoShop CS3
Fireworks CS3
DreamWeaver CS3
Illustrator CS3

(all done well)

Yumm.

 

[Chaszmyr]

Think about this:
You'll have to buy 2 suites and you will get the following:

Adobe:
Flash
Dreamweaver
Photoshop
Illustrator
InDesign

Apple:
Final Cut Pro
Motion
Soundtrack Pro
DVD Studio Pro

Unless you do 3d graphics, that's pretty much all the software you'll ever need.

 

[puuukeey]

corp gets bigger, consumer gets smaller PERIOD, EXCLAMATION MARK


for all those who want apple buying more companies, I hope your ready for what you get, a system that operates like an xbox. I bet adobe threatened macromedia with its size and said they would bury them offering no choice but to submit. how much control are small time developers and users willing to let go of when we live our lives on computers? they are what we stair at all day? the only people benifiting from this sort of anticompetition is adobe. period

 

[Badradio]

It's bad because with no competition in the web page design field...snip.

I don't think it's definitely a bad situation. With the exception of the oddballs that are GoLive, ImageReady and Freehand, the two companies' product lines have been firmly entrenched in print/web design with little crossover. Maybe by removing (selling off) those products, Adobe can split the lines more defintely and target the markets more accurately. Maybe even restructure the lines to create a richer consumer offering like Apple does. Take Fireworks for example: it's always been too "light" for a pro app, but too expensive for consumers. I love using it for designing web layouts, but for anything remotely challenging I go straight for Photoshop.

 

[multimedium]

I predicted this a long time ago...

...about when GoLive came out. It just plain sucks. And then when Adobe had it's failed attempt at it's own Flash creation tool (what was that called?) I was even more convinced.

Plus, it would be so cool to have Photoshop integrated with DreamWeaver.

I am concerned the most about Authorware, which Macromedia has really been letting fall away. I still use it a lot.

Adobe has made some mistakes, but they aren't stupid. I'm guessing they will let Macromedia more or less operate as a division, the difference being cooperation between applications, like Flash and Illustrator. Adobe has no experience with server apps like ColdFusion so I think they will let Macromedia's existing team keep developing it. Server apps are actually are a weakness for Adobe, this could lead to a lot of cool new tools.

 

[kettle]

How's this for unfounded speculation? Adobe is forced to sell off Dreamweaver, Fireworks, and FreeHand for copyright reasons. Apple buys them, and makes "lite" versions to integrate with the iApps, and "pro" versions to complete the Final Cut suite.

I'll let my faith leap with you, but selling me the theory for "copyright reasons" and "forced to sell" will be a tricky one for you.

 

[dornoforpyros]

some one had to do it, figured I could atleast be the first

 

[theISHkid]

I don't know why everyone here is so intent on Adobe "killing" macromedia's apps. Integrating yes, killing no. First off it's all about money; if they can get more money then they are going to do something so if it's not good for their bottom line then they aren't just going to kill it. And even if they did get rid of a program like dreamweaver and went with go-live... it wouldn't be the same go live you see now, it would be an integrated version of the two pieces of software. I mean surely there is at least one thing good about go live that dreamweaver doesn't do right? I was really worried at first too but this is probably a good thing. All this is going to do is create more standards in the marketplace the same way photoshop is the standard photo editor. We will now have a standard illustration software, you won't be turned down from that job because you know freehand instead of illustrator. Everything is just going to be streamlined... Just remember they all want money, they aren't just going to kill the app because they did not make it. Their wallets are bigger than their ego's.

 

[tsunami2k3]

I think everybody is overlooking the fact that true professionals on Windows use MSPaint, and true professionals on Mac use MSPaint through Virtual PC 7. Hopefully this merger will allow Adobe to compete with the goliath that is MSPaint.

 

[dicklacara]

Think about this:
You'll have to buy 2 suites and you will get the following:

Adobe:
Flash
Dreamweaver
Photoshop
Illustrator
InDesign

Apple:
Final Cut Pro
Motion
Soundtrack Pro
DVD Studio Pro

Unless you do 3d graphics, that's pretty much all the software you'll ever need.

It is included in the Apple suite, but you gotta mention QT7 & h264

Also, now that you have created all this fantastic digital content, how are you going to deliver it (ColdFusion, Flex, Breeze)?

Also, the latest ColdFusion has the ability to deliver content not initiated by a browser request (SMS messaging, for example). This capability could be used to deliver IPTV, VOD, AV content to Cell Phones, and the like!

 

[Rustus Maximus]

Adobe is a monopoly! Monopoly this monopoly that...Apple is toast...Adobe has Apple over a barrel now...blah blah blah

First off, Adobe will not kill support for Macs in their primary apps, PS, ILL, InDes, etc. Too big a market for them. Second, in truth this acquisition has little to do with Apple as much as it has to do with Microsoft. Adobe is threatened by what's coming in Longhorn (ie. AVALON, ie. DYNAMIC FORM TECHS) this is a move designed to protect Adobe's turf now and not let Microsoft into the party so easily. Apple is not some sort of secret target in all of this corporate manuevering, it may actually help Apple in some sort of strange twisted way by stymeying Longhorn (not that it's anything to worry about should it ever appear)

As far as lack of innovation goes. Adobe is no more of a monopoly than Quark was in the early days and we saw what happened to them. The market will correct itself should Adobe head down that road. Someone new will come along and offer a Photoshop killer and fortunes will reverse themselves yet again. Honestly, everyone is always such a Chicken Little when it comes to this stuff, like no one else will ever decide they can do it better and make a ton of money in the process by listening to the customer.

Lack of innovation? Nah...it may seem like it sometimes but it never EVER stops. The beauty of the free market system.

 

[NokX]

i think this is good news -- both company's products have their perks and their flaws, hopefully this will bring out the best in both worlds. anyone wanna take bids on what main products go/stay?

Stay
Adobe Photoshop
Adobe Acrobat
Adobe Illustrator
Macromedia Dreamweaver
Macromedia Flash
Macromedia Director

Go
Adobe GoLive
Macromedia Freehand
Macromedia Fireworks

 

[stickmedia]

Dreamweaver at least as big as Flash

Everyone is talking about how they bought MM for Flash. While they would obviously like to own the preeminent multimedia tool for the web, the future of the web is all about being dynamic. GoLive is NOT prepared to compete. It is effectively InDesign for designing web pages. This is directly from the GoLive CS specsheet:

"Q. Do you support dynamic content in GoLive CS2?
A. No, at this time, GoLive CS2 does not offer built-in support for dynamic content authoring. In other words, GoLive cannot automatically connect to a database and pull out information with which to design your pages. However, it offers superb support for traditional handcoding, including built-in code completion to help you script and check your syntax in PHP, JSP, and ASP. Alternatively, Zend offers a plugin to GoLive for PHP development. Learn about Zend’s complete PHP development platform for handling
PHP 4.x and 5 support, code profiling, and analyzing tools with one-click debugging at www.zend.com."

Anyone that doesn't see the value of Dreamweaver (over GoLive of all things…) should put down the pipe. Dreamweaver is far more valuable to Adobe than Flash will ever be. I have Flash MX Pro 2004 and use it but I use dreamweaver every single day nonstop. I pull out Flash once a week maybe? I'm guessing that 90% of the web devs out there are the same way.
"Q. Do you support dynamic content in GoLive CS2?
A. No, at this time, GoLive CS2 does not offer built-in support for dynamic content authoring. In other words, GoLive cannot automatically connect to a database and pull out information with which to design your pages. However, it offers superb support for traditional handcoding, including built-in code completion to help you script and check your syntax in PHP, JSP, and ASP. Alternatively, Zend offers a plugin to GoLive for PHP development. Learn about Zend’s complete PHP development platform for handling
PHP 4.x and 5 support, code profiling, and analyzing tools with one-click debugging at www.zend.com."

 

[NokX]

some one had to do it, figured I could atleast be the first

did you create that using adobe freehand?

 

[DrNeroCF]

Well, considering I find it easier to do pretty much anything in flash than it is to do it in photoshop, Adobe better not influence my flash in any way! Of course, I maybe just be stupid...

Either way, with the next batch of flash apps looking to be so revolutionary, Adobe better not touch them!

Come on, Apple, buy all of them!

 

[djfern]

Wow that sucks

The only good thing i can see coming out of this is maybe, just maybe, they'll put an interface on flash that i can actually figure out. I was just talking to a friend on saturday about how i've never bothered to learn Flash cause each time i try, i'm thwarted by how different it is from the adobe ways of doing things.

Otherwise though, I can't see it being a good thing that one company controls like basically 100% of major webs graphic tools, and like 80% of graphic design tools (and that's giving Quark a lot more recognition than it really deserves. Damn i hate quark).

What to expect? Laziness on their part i think. Look at microsoft. Out of ideas so they're resigned to eating their competition, mimicking innovation and releasing bloaty, crashy, virus prone crap.

argh.

 

[FoxyKaye]

Uh, oh...

Anyone remember Aldus?

 

[aswitcher]

Come on, Apple, buy all of them!

Whats Adobe now worth?

 

[djfern]

corp gets bigger, consumer gets smaller PERIOD, EXCLAMATION MARK


for all those who want apple buying more companies, I hope your ready for what you get, a system that operates like an xbox. I bet adobe threatened macromedia with its size and said they would bury them offering no choice but to submit. how much control are small time developers and users willing to let go of when we live our lives on computers? they are what we stair at all day? the only people benifiting from this sort of anticompetition is adobe. period

More likely they waved a 3.4 billion dollar carrot in front of Macromedia shareholders' noses. Markets have no morals. 'shareholders' are in it for the buck, they could give a crap about the implications.

 

[bbyrdhouse]

I think everybody is overlooking the fact that true professionals on Windows use MSPaint, and true professionals on Mac use MSPaint through Virtual PC 7. Hopefully this merger will allow Adobe to compete with the goliath that is MSPaint.

Oh! I laughed so hard it hurt.

I hope your not serious.

 

[Peel]

I'm probably revealing my age here but... when Adobe purchased Aldus, they acquired with it:

- Pagemaker
- Freehand

For antitrust reasons, they were not allowed to own both Illustrator and Freehand, so to get government approval for the purchase they agreed to sell Freehand (i.e. they kept their own in favour of the 3rd party product).

They decided to keep Pagemaker, alongside Framemaker, even though there was some crossover between the two products. This was later resolved when they brought out InDesign, replacing both.

For what it's worth, I'd bet that Adobe sells Dreamweaver & Fireworks - perhaps to Apple. Their interest in Macromedia is entirely down to Flash - that's Macromedia's crown jewels.

Don't get me wrong, Dreamweaver is a great app, and I recognise it's more popular than GoLive, but Adobe's only real interest in Macromedia is Flash. Dreamweaver is extremely valuable - but more valuable to Adobe in its sale price, I think.

It's Deja Vu all over again.

I worked for Aldus as a Freehand tester back in the 90's when they were acquired by Adobe. Anti-trust laws were the reason that they had to sell-off or kill Freehand. As I recall it took about 9 months before Macromedia stepped up and bought Freehand off of them (the price was reportedly rather low by then). I always felt that MM treated FH like a step-child, and never gave it its due in development. How many years since it was last updated?

If it manages to survive (by someone buying it from Adobe) let's hope they give it a full makeover and update it to a true competitor to Illustrator.

 

[dicklacara]

The only good thing i can see coming out of this is maybe, just maybe, they'll put an interface on flash that i can actually figure out. I was just talking to a friend on saturday about how i've never bothered to learn Flash cause each time i try, i'm thwarted by how different it is from the adobe ways of doing things.

CFML (ColdFusion Markup Language includes HTML-like tags that allow you to easily include Flash constructs (Grids, Forms, Trees, etc) in web pages.

However, I am no great fan of Flash because it consumes too many resources on the client (CPU cycles, primarily).

 

[sacear]

Hm, now that I think about it, whatever happened to Aldus? I know they went down years ago, but did they get bought out by Adobe too? I remember both PageMaker and Freehand used to be Aldus products originally.

Also, now maybe Adobe will make a modern version of Fontographer! That would rock, since Macromedia had pretty much abandoned it.

Aldus merged with Adobe in 1994. At that time, PageMaker was losing market share quickly to QuarkXPress. Aldus was not able to update and maintain PageMaker fast enough and Adobe acquired Aldus in order to bring PageMaker back to life. Pagemaker was the only product developed in-house by Aldus. All other Aldus branded products (Fontographer, FreeHand, and maybe Metamorphosis, etc.) were all developed by another company named Altsys and licensed to Aldus. When Aldus merged with Adobe, only Aldus' own product PageMaker went to Adobe. All the licensed products (Fontographer, FreeHand, etc.) went back to Altsys. Then a short time later Altsys and all its products were acquired by Macromedia.

Edit: Adobe did not sell FreeHand to Macromedia. Altsys sold FreeHand to Macromedia. Adobe never previously acquired FreeHand, so Anti-trust laws would not have applied. Altsys did sue Aldus prior to the Aldus/Adobe merger to assure that they would maintain control of FreeHand and that the conditions of their licensing agreement contract with Aldus were upheld and not violated.