Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
suzerain said:
Sorry to be blunt, but I call ********. Some people, sure...but I doubt your claim of it being faster than a one year-old PowerBook.
Not for everything, not even in Photoshop. What exactly are you doing with your machine? Are you seeking responsiveness, or running massive 5-minute filters on high-res posters? Do you launch Photoshop and quit it all the time? These answers will be different for different people. But I'm NOT talking just from optimism, I'm looking at the tests people have been doing, and Rosetta CAN often rival even a very recent G4. And most people aren't replacing a just-bought G4 right now anyway.

Also, when you assume the MacBook Pro will be much slower than the iMac, I see no evidence for that.
 
Blue Velvet said:
Frankly, I've never read so much pointless and unrealistic whining in a thread.

This timescale is reasonable. Those who use the Adobe CS — day in, day out — for their jobs will not be put out by this at all.

The number of graphics pros who rely on laptops for their work are in a small minority.

And for those of you who wonder why Photoshop is the industry standard yet have it running on your machines, I suggest that you don't know what the hell you're doing with it.


Exactly. Photoshop has a 92% market share, and for the most part the other 8% are apps that people use to supplement Photoshop, not replace it. I have been hearing about Photoshop killers for 15 years now, nothing has come close. It would take a very good app AND a very good reason to switch to another photo editing app. All this talk about the lack of Universal Binaries is little reason for Photoshop to lose market share. The design field will not come to a halt because of it.
 
zv470 said:
Wouldn't most Photoshop professionals already be using G5 Powermacs? Just wondering.

well... I'm not I still use a G4 and I was wondering if I should wait to switch for a Mactel... But with this news from Adobe, I might just give a G5 its last chance...
:rolleyes:

...confused...:confused:
 
Alternative!

Now seams like an optimal time for competitors to gain more traction. The problem is there really isn't any. I like GIMP, but it is more of a competitor to photo shop elements.
 
I saw this coming a mile off,

After reading the story after the imac was released about adobes shock on the "ahead of time" lauch of the imac.

Apple loves to build its hype for new products by keeping a tight leak on its lids, and it appears also not communicating schedules to the 3rd parties that make one of the largest products on the mac market...

Also, it can be argued that's why apple's launched the imac first, not the powermac, but the amount of negitive ratings for this article is a bit of a fanboy whine....what do you really expect adobe to do?

PS appears to be running fine in rosetta for shallow use, and if you're a pro, you'll certainly not be buying an Imac.....
 
Well,

I think Adobe sucks for making their clients like me wait so long.

I may buy Aperture and see what other products i can shift some of my work to.

also, I think that alot of people will want to buy Dual Chip / Dual CPU (quad cpu) g5 towers in the meantime.

why will they want to but the intel computers? they will probably not offer that much of a performance difference initially. and the g5 tower will hold people over professionally for another year or two.
 
Good opportunity for MacGIMP

I've seen a copy of MacGIMP already working on x86 Macs, so this is a great way for the GIMP to beat Photoshop in terms of actual how many people use it. Sweet!
 
PS CS2 should be released an Universal and the rest can wait. thats what I would have done. the others are not as taxing on a system.

I have to admit though the Idea of a whole new suite coming out at the same time as the new intel powermacs makes me quiver with pleasure.
 
bousozoku said:
Is it a wonder that so many shops are still running on Mac OS 9.x? :D They're not only cheap, but they're waiting for Apple to make up its mind. 68000->68020/68030/68040->PPC->Mac OS X and PPC->Mac OS X and Intel.


LOL !!!!

alfismoney said:
...I have been frustrated with the terrible performance of their suites since illustrator 10 on my powerbook...

Have you forgot Illustrator 9 already ??? :rolleyes:
[This version should have never existed]:mad:
 
nagromme said:
Not for everything, not even in Photoshop. What exactly are you doing with your machine? Are you seeking responsiveness, or running massive 5-minute filters on high-res posters? Do you launch Photoshop and quit it all the time? These answers will be different for different people. But I'm NOT talking just from optimism, I'm looking at the tests people have been doing, and Rosetta CAN often rival even a very recent G4. And most people aren't replacing a just-bought G4 right now anyway.

Also, when you assume the MacBook Pro will be much slower than the iMac, I see no evidence for that.

I couldn't agree more! I also don't think there is any reason to assume that the MacBook will be meaningfully slower than the iMac. And my experience (in-store on a 17" 1.83Ghz iMac) with Rosetta, unfortunately not including PS (wasn't installed), does suggest that apps running even under rosetta will be faster, or just as fast, as those running PPC native on my PB 1.25.

My machine is two years old. I think I'm in the sweet spot, because the MacBook update is very compelling for me, and I think it will offer a significant upgrade. Worst case seems to be ~ same performance under rosetta, and best case is 2x. If I had just shelled out $2K+ for a brand-new 1.67PB, then I might hesitate just a bit, but going from a 1.25 to the new core duo I believe will be a very nice breath of fresh air.

Eric
 
DPazdanISU said:
:eek:
I guess apple will just have to come out with more appz cuz they seem to be the only ones quickly universalizing...:rolleyes: I can see it now, iPictureShop

Harharhar

System requirements:

Dual 2ghz Core Duo or better
4gb ram or better

Only save as png files.

Professional Mac users can't buy a new machine, that has both longevity and software, for at least a year.

Great.

:(
 
dantec said:
BOTTOM LINE:

Adobe should done there homework and rewritten their apps in COCOA a LONG TIME AGO !!

moral of the story: ADOBE SHOULD HAVE DONE THEIR HOMEWORK LONG AGO!

wait, is this the moral of the line, or the bottom of the story?
 
Counter said:
Harharhar

System requirements:

Dual 2ghz Core Duo or better
4gb ram or better

Only save as png files.

Professional Mac users can't buy a new machine, that has both longevity and software, for at least a year.

Great.

:(

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.
 
dantec said:
BOTTOM LINE:

Adobe should done there homework and rewritten their apps in COCOA a LONG TIME AGO !!

Instead they decided to trail on, with the pre-OS 9 apple approach, that if its not broke don't fix it... instead lets just keep piling code on this old architecture and hope for the best...

Now with the switch to intel, they have been screwed over, because it is my understanding that XCode only allows you to make universal apps of Cocoa apps which Adobe's suit is not.

moral of the story: ADOBE SHOULD HAVE DONE THEIR HOMEWORK LONG AGO!

Cocoa isn't a panacea and it's definitely not for cross platform applications. Using C++ and Carbon works quite well and isn't so different in mindset from using C++ and MFC on Windows.
 
bousozoku said:
Cocoa isn't a panacea and it's definitely not for cross platform applications.

Too true. A good Carbon app is better than a bad Cocoa app. That's from a (spare-time) Cocoa developer. That said I believe it takes a lot more work to write a good Carbon app.
 
robbieduncan said:
Too true. A good Carbon app is better than a bad Cocoa app. That's from a (spare-time) Cocoa developer. That said I believe it takes a lot more work to write a good Carbon app.

If you mean a relatively trouble-free Carbon application, yes, it's tougher to write one than it is to use Objective-C and Cocoa, simply because Cocoa is Object-oriented, which provides strong basic behaviours and because Objective-C has greater resistance to memory leaks than C++ does--if used properly--thanks for Smalltalk. I wish that Borland would have moved their Object Windows Library over to Macintosh. It would be a perfect cross-platform framework and had a SmallTalk flavour to it. Adobe and Macromedia would have been years ahead with it.
 
ubiquitin said:
I've seen a copy of MacGIMP already working on x86 Macs, so this is a great way for the GIMP to beat Photoshop in terms of actual how many people use it. Sweet!

Now all they've got to do is write an interface that pros want to use and add CMYK support (has it got that yet?).
 
robbieduncan said:
Too true. A good Carbon app is better than a bad Cocoa app. That's from a (spare-time) Cocoa developer. That said I believe it takes a lot more work to write a good Carbon app.

Yes and the work for Adobe is already done. Many people have gotten onto this "applications suck if they are not written in Cocoa." It is easy to spot someone that doesn't know what they are talking about that way though. Adobe is using carbon for exactly what it was designed for. Many of Apple's own applications are carbon apps.
 
ATD said:
Exactly. Photoshop has a 92% market share, and for the most part the other 8% are apps that people use to supplement Photoshop, not replace it. I have been hearing about Photoshop killers for 15 years now, nothing has come close. It would take a very good app AND a very good reason to switch to another photo editing app. All this talk about the lack of Universal Binaries is little reason for Photoshop to lose market share. The design field will not come to a halt because of it.

I really hope that Apple keeps coming out with their own software. At least they take care of the technology progress very fast. It would be great if the CS suite could be replaced by Apple's own products. May be even a solid 3d app from apple would be great. I have macs for over 15 years now and its very frustrating to see that Mac updates come last. May be we aren't a big market share but that doesn't mean anything. Most of the creative use mac.

An other example of Adobe's lame attitude for mac users is their lightroom project. its just a disappointment if being compared against Aperture.

I just ordered for the biz the Mac Book Pro. Knowing you cannot use it with full power sucks really big time.

Just my 2 cents.
Dave
 
Another big drop in Apple stock today, I wonder if this news had anything to do with it. I guess Apples stock price has reached it's peak.
 
Count me in among those who are only surprised (or disappointed) at the amount of negativity here. I'm not singling out this one post, but it's a perfect example of the strange attitude going on.

mdntcallr said:
I think Adobe sucks for making their clients like me wait so long.

Yeah, those bastards! Sitting around on their butts and twiddling their thumbs because they wanted to make YOU wait. After all, they merely needed to click on a checkbox and recompile, right? Those jerks are probably reading this and laughing at you! Meanwhile your current machine is totally useless, as it burst into flames and ceased functioning the day the first Intel iMac shipped. :mad: :mad: :mad: </dripping sarcasm> :rolleyes:

Seriously, anyone who's whining about this either has not thought through the situation, or does not understand how large application development works. If it's the latter, I can forgive you -- but only if you read what others are saying and learn from it.

On the first point, look at it this way. May/June 2005, Adobe is happily humming along, just after the release of CS2 for a platform that Apple has given every indication will be stable for years to come. They've weathered the OS X transition storm a few years back and are finally rolling smoothly on the current platform. Things look good for Adobe on the Mac. CS3 development will begin shortly.

Then suddenly, with no warning whatsoever, Apple announces that PPC is dead and they are transitioning to Intel. Furthermore, you absolutely must use Apple's compiler to target the new systems. And the transition will happen quickly. Apple to Adboe: "We know you didn't see this coming, hope you have an army of idle software engineers to throw at the task we've created for you!"

Adobe's response to this should arguably have been "WTF??". Apple did them a huge disservice by not disclosing these plans earlier to one of their biggest developers. Granted, according to the WWDC keynote, Apple hadn't fully made the decision until just weeks before the announcement. But knowing this was a possibility for the last 5 years, they should have made a much bigger deal about migrating to Xcode because it may be the only supported compiler for future versions of Mac OS X, hardware transition or not. Even without a transition decision, Apple should have worked more closely with their large developers to get them off CodeWarrior and onto Xcode starting 2 years ago or more. They could have done this without giving away any hint of an Intel future, and then all the major players would have been ready from day one.

Instead, we come to my second point, which is that it's a HUGE job to migrate an app the size of CS2/3 from one development environment (CodeWarrior) and compiler to another (Xcode). And no, this has nothing to do with Carbon vs. Cocoa -- one is not better than the other, and both are fine on Intel. Apple dropped a huge bombshell and expected every developer to suddenly halt what they were doing and retool their products to be universal.

Unfortunately you don't just create a new project, load all your source files, and compile. As someone else noted in this thread, there's probably tens of thousands of little issues to deal with in such a migration without even considering the PPC/Intel differences (which hopefully are covered in the Windows versions of Adobe's core routines). Some person has to make a decision on each and every one of them. Again, this is HUGE for software of this size.

The announcement from Adobe seems about right on track to me. To complain that they are the bad guys for taking "so long" is a failure to understand the situation. In my opinion, of course. :D
 
bankshot said:
Apple did them a huge disservice by not disclosing these plans earlier to one of their biggest developers. Granted, according to the WWDC keynote, Apple hadn't fully made the decision until just weeks before the announcement. But knowing this was a possibility for the last 5 years, they should have made a much bigger deal about migrating to Xcode because it may be the only supported compiler for future versions of Mac OS X, hardware transition or not. Even without a transition decision, Apple should have worked more closely with their large developers to get them off CodeWarrior and onto Xcode starting 2 years ago or more. They could have done this without giving away any hint of an Intel future, and then all the major players would have been ready from day one.

Have you been at the last few WWDCs? Apple has made it VERY clear for several years now that migrating to Xcode would be a critical for every developer, and that future technologies would be essentially impossible to take advantage of without Xcode. They begged developers to start the transition as early as possible.

The problem is that it's a lot of work and, until now, there has always been a way to work around the need for Xcode. All the foreshadowing in the world hasn't been enough for developers with large code bases - they just chose to wait until the last possible minute to take a necessary but painful step. Even so, they had 6 months between announcement and tool availability and the new hardware.

If you thought that Adobe would pass on this opportunity to issue a "must buy" upgrade to the product you haven't been paying attention. That's likely the real center of the story, and I don't blame them. They have to fund the development of the product somehow and giving away a single "must have" feature would be a foolish move on their part.
 
LethalWolfe said:
It's not being "cheap" it's being cost effective. Why drop down a few grand for a new machine and new software if they old machine and old software still meet your needs? Or why possibly introduce new bugs/hiccups into your workflow if your workflow still meets your needs?

I see a number of of MDD drive Macs at editing facilities running Avid software in OS 9 and up until a few years ago many of the editing facilities I went to had at least one ancient Power Macintosh 9600/XXX (circa 1997) still running day in and day out.

Slow and steady is a lot better than fast and buggy.


Lethal


well said Lethal. many people just thing, OMG .5GHZ faster, time for newer machine but why upgrade if your machine is doing what you want? Sure, if you got money to blow, go for it but if my machine is working fine, ill invest that money into something else.

The stuff I did for MTV, they also had macs with OS9 :eek:

Also, I find it hilarious that people are blaming Adobe. I thought the Mac crowd was a little more edumacated then this. Adobe and other companies are here for business. Their not gonna be like great Apple the recently 5% market share is gonna switch chips, HAULT ALL PROGRAMS, hire 10,000 new programers, WE WILL BE READY ON LAUNCH DATE!!!

no. their going to divert their resources as they see fit. their not going to sacrifice their other projects for just us. their other engeniers have other projects their working on with their own deadlines.

Plus as many others have said, somebody who just bought a G4 laptop or iMacG5 isnt going to be like, TIME for a new unit. they just got theirs and the people coming from much older units will see a faster machine, even with Rosetta.

ALSO, G5 units are still readily availible so for those who worry, there is plenty of G5 units to go around to hold them over for 3 more years and im sure by then, Apple will have jumped on the Cell Processor anyways so time to recode...Apple lives a TRIPPLE LIFE! !!...

And for those who demand alot out of their units, there are lovely Quad Core G5's....*drools*
 
atomwork said:
I really hope that Apple keeps coming out with their own software. At least they take care of the technology progress very fast. It would be great if the CS suite could be replaced by Apple's own products. May be even a solid 3d app from apple would be great. I have macs for over 15 years now and its very frustrating to see that Mac updates come last. May be we aren't a big market share but that doesn't mean anything. Most of the creative use mac.



I would hate to see CS leave because of it. I remember when Adobe products were Mac only.

When Apple came out with Final Cut, Motion, got Shake plus had indirect control of Renderman, I was surprised they didn't buy Maya. Why they didn't round out that suite was beyond me.
 
bankshot said:
... about migrating to Xcode because it may be the only supported compiler for future versions of Mac OS X, hardware transition or not.

"only" is a bad word beause it can be dis-proven with a single conterexample.
So "only supported" I think should read "best". I know, nit picking.

Although we don't know about the future, There exist several examples of applicatins running on Intel Mac that are not compiled with Apple's xcode. The first example was the benchmarks that Steve Jobs pointed at durring the anouncement. He said they were done using the Intel compiler. xcode uses GNU's gcc.

Of cource one can run gcc without xcode. Almost all of the Open Source programs that run (and even ship) with the mac don't use xcode. What about the hundreds of programs that Darwin inherits from BSD? And then Open Office for Intel Mac is an entire office suit that was built sans xcode. Aple haw been pushing xcode and pushing hard from well before the Intel switch announcement. It comes included with every Mac.

That said, I thnk the only reasonable way to write applications that fully that advantage of the Mac OSX environment is with xcode and the only reasonable way to make them "universal" is with xcode. Without it you would have to make two binaries one PPC one Intel.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.