tsialex
Contributor
Install a EFI GPU, you can't debug a Mac Pro without it, unless you have a serial or network console - which almost no one outside Cupertino has.
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Advice for 5.1 upgrade
- Thread starter F1Mac
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tsialex
Contributor
So I made one last attempt (I'm out of thermal paste!), this time with the HD5770:
- boot seems normal with Apple logo and progress bar
- right before getting to the login screen I get a KP
- forcing the computer to shut down is the only option
I shut down. Reboot with NVRAM/PRAM reset. Always the same.
So I'm back, again, to the original 2.4 CPUs, and the RX 560 (at least this one works!).
Like I said, I'm now out of thermal paste... I had just enough for one CPU and barely for the second one. Everything looks normal though on the temp side... So I'm just wondering right now if I should try with another pair or just leave it at that. There are several options on ebay around $100 a pair (5680). That is so, sooo frustrating!😡
- boot seems normal with Apple logo and progress bar
- right before getting to the login screen I get a KP
- forcing the computer to shut down is the only option
I shut down. Reboot with NVRAM/PRAM reset. Always the same.
So I'm back, again, to the original 2.4 CPUs, and the RX 560 (at least this one works!).
Like I said, I'm now out of thermal paste... I had just enough for one CPU and barely for the second one. Everything looks normal though on the temp side... So I'm just wondering right now if I should try with another pair or just leave it at that. There are several options on ebay around $100 a pair (5680). That is so, sooo frustrating!😡
tsialex
Contributor
Buy the cheapest white thermal paste you can find locally. You will need lots of it to troubleshoot this problem. Test just one processor at a time and always install on Socket-A. Always use a EFI GPU to troubleshoot.
Only when you have your Mac working correctly, use a decent thermal paste.
Will do, thanks for all your advices by the way (and the others too!)
...Anything I should worry about with these temps? They look fine to me but just to make sure (both in F and C ust because 😉)
...Again this is with the original CPUs, but I just don't want to take any risk after swapping them several times...
tsialex
Contributor
handheldgames
macrumors 68000
The flashing question mark means your firmware can’t find a disk to boot from.
Buy two sheets of the IC solutions thermal interface material from amazon. It’s reusable multiple times and great for a situation where you have countless tear downs and rebuilds.
Buy two sheets of the IC solutions thermal interface material from amazon. It’s reusable multiple times and great for a situation where you have countless tear downs and rebuilds.
I know, that was just a guess. It turns out there was no question mark (using my EFI gpu) but a kernel panic every time, right before the login screen.
Matty_TypeR
macrumors 6502a
WoW so frustrating for you, I would think you have tried all but another pair of CPU's and wonder if some of these CPU's have a non compatible stepping or are damaged in some way. the only way is to try another pair from a different place of purchase.
My own was so straight forward, Mac 4.1 upgraded to 5.1 and single CPU upgrade to Hex core W3680 3.33ghz and this was years ago when the W3680 was £800 new and the 4.1 to 5.1 upgrade just came out. Installed CPU heatsink with shims as deliding just was not done then, and not on £800 CPU's. it has been rock solid ever since.
My Mac Pro 5.1 dual started life as 2 X E5645 which I swapped out for 2 X X5690 some months ago, no need to delid and put tray back in to PRAM reset on first boot and then after been 100% rock solid.
I think your only option is to replace the CPU pair and try that.
Yeah, and the ebay seller doesn't take returns... I have found another one in the U.S.
5690s are twice the price of the 5680s but after this experience maybe I should try a pair of 5690s this time!
I'm curious as to why you would shim the CPU in a single CPU 4,1. It's my understanding the single CPU 4,1 does not utilize de-lidded CPUs.
[doublepost=1537108289][/doublepost]
If a new set of CPUs ends up resolving the problem then I would recommend contacting the seller and demanding a refund.
Matty_TypeR
macrumors 6502a
You could well be right on the shim's on my single CPU Mac Pro. it was a long time ago and I have done a few upgrades for people over the years and still have 16 shims left but now I delid if I am asked to do upgrades these days. could well be shims on another Mac Pro. most upgrades are duel cpu trays now.
flowrider
macrumors 604
Frustrating for me too!!!! That the OP seems reluctant to try the CPUs individually??????? And the statement that the seller doesn't take returns - For a Defective Product????? eBay does have a policy on that I believe.
Nooooo!!!!!!
Lou
As pointed to me by tsialex via pm, the fact that they don't work doesn't mean they are defective. In which case I'd have nothing to complain about.
So let's say I try them individually, what do I find out, that one of them *maybe* is ok? I have to buy at least one more anyway. I'm not reluctant to anything, I'll get more thermal paste this week and see what I do next. I also have work to do and don't have days to spend on this. I just need 2 CPUs that WORK. I already spent close to 10 hours in all on a 30mn job.
flowrider
macrumors 604
^^^^Gosh, if you find one that works and one that doesn't, than one is defective! The fact that your machine works fine with the OEM CPUs, means , to me, something is wrong with the replacements. When I replaced my CPUs, X5677s, one of mine was defective, a bad RAM channel. I discovered which one by moving them around. Did that take some time, yes it did, but certainly not 10 hours. I returned the defective CPU, and then replaced both CPUs and was up and running.
Anyway, I'm done posting here since you seem so reluctant to try something as rudimentary as the single CPU test.
Good Luck To You!
Lou
Anyway, I'm done posting here since you seem so reluctant to try something as rudimentary as the single CPU test.
Good Luck To You!
Lou
I already said that I need to get new thermal paste first before I try testing anything. I do appreciate your suggestions and yes, I guess I will test them individually some time this week.
What took me close to 10 hours was installing the new cpus the first time, then cleaning and reinstalling the OEMs, then cleaning and retrying the new ones, then cleaning and reinstalling the OEMs... That takes time. Then the day after, same pattern with the EFi gpu... Thanks for your help anyways.
Matty_TypeR
macrumors 6502a
I would not bother trying again and again and again, this is basically a simple upgrade. the OP has tried many times and as he purchased them in a pair he will have to return to the seller as a pair. if the ram works in the slots with his OLD cpu's it should still work with the new CPU's and in the same ram slots.
He has a defective CPU or both, which makes no difference as they will have to be returned, it is down to the seller to make sure the CPU's he or she is selling work. all this testing 1 cpu and in and out all the time is just time wasting. save your thermal paste for new CPU's and hopefully the next pair will be working examples. This really is a simple upgrade.
flowrider
macrumors 604
^^^^OK, I mean it this time - Last Post😳 I also bought my X5677s as a PAIR! When ONE failed, I returned ONE to the seller, he replaced the bad ONE! The replaced ONE worked with the other ONE!
What I and others have suggested is just standard testing!
You seem to be making the sellers return policy up????? You are WRONG!
Lou
What I and others have suggested is just standard testing!
You seem to be making the sellers return policy up????? You are WRONG!
Lou
Matty_TypeR
macrumors 6502a
What is wrong? or made up??? why should the OP have to do the testing of the CPU's. ????? it doesn't matter if one is bad or one is good its not his fault, he purchased 2 working CPU's and as his old CPU's work fine we can assume it has to be the new ones or one of them at fault. Not his problem, he has already stated he does not have time for any more testing and doesn't want to take the risk of removing the CPU's multiple times.
Easy answer is return and get new CPU's that are tested and working.
And by the way, the seller has to take returns unless the CPU's were listed as parts not working. even if seller puts on the listing NO returns, under eBay rules he has no choice. if he doesn't respond to your messages, then put in a claim that they do not work. ebay will tell the seller to accept return and you can claim your money back. Ebay rules not mine!
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Ok I really don’t want this conversation to turn nasty. I’m going to figure out what I want to do next as the best, most cost-effective and time-saving solution to upgrade this Mac Pro. In the end it’s my decision, and despite some of you may think, this thread has proven to be very helpful for me. I’ll keep you guys posted...
IMO it does because they're not working together (which is something they're supposed to do).
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I'm leaning towards Matty's train of thought. At least one of the new CPUs is bad so have the seller exchange both and save yourself the trouble of having to install one, the other, and then both (once a new one is replaced). Let the seller sort it out.
fhturner
macrumors 6502a
Sorry, but I disagree. This is basic troubleshooting. Divide and conquer to isolate where the problem is and eliminate where it is not. At this point, you don't even need to bother cleaning off the CPUs or heat sinks when swapping out (which to me is the biggest headache)— all you need to know right now is what CPU will get you to the login screen and which crashes before it. And you aren't going to be pushing the thermal envelope anyway. Just try one, then the other. If one's good and one bad, tell the seller and get a another one. Why take a (admittedly unlikely) chance that you might get another pair w/ one defective? Confirm the good one and go from there. Again, basic troubleshooting...that's why you've heard the same thing several times now.
Also, I'm sure it is frustrating, but we're giving you good advice, you've got good people here helping you out, so you'll get to a happy resolution before long and won't have to stress over it anymore. Hang in there!
Of course it's basic troubleshooting. That's not the point. It's obvious at least one of the CPUs is bad. Which means he's going to have to go through the trouble of exchanging at least one of them. So why not just exchange both of them and avoid the effort of trying to figure out which one is bad? That way he only has to do a replacement once instead of, potentially, multiple times.
Yes, he risks receiving another bad processor. That possibility exists whether he's exchanging one or two. If I were the OP I'd request the seller send me a pair of tested processors.
Then there's the possibility of this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2009-8-core-4-1-5-1-suddenly-stopped-booting.2130729/
Each processor tested fine individually but when paired together the system failed to function. It turns out, despite working individually, one of the processors was bad.
The only reason I can think of for him to do the troubleshooting effort instead of just replacing them both is if the seller agrees to ship him another processor without the need to return the defective one.
Thanks but I'm not the one experiencing the problem.
fhturner
macrumors 6502a
I'd just want to know FOR SURE that it was one or the other of the new processors. Of course, you don't conclude this 100% if neither one shows a problem when installed individually, but at least you can be pretty sure if one DOES show a problem. Then you can put your mind at ease that it isn't anything wrong w/ your tray.
In any case, the amount of time posting here about other thoughts and soliciting add'l opinions after the "install individually" advice had been given could have easily encompassed the 10-15 extra minutes to unscrew and re-screw the heat sinks and try them each X5680 individually.
Okay, I'm sorry, I didn't realize we weren't being context-sensitive or -aware here:
@Morpheo (and only @Morpheo!), I'm sure it is frustrating, but we're giving you good advice, you've got good people here helping you out, so you'll get to a happy resolution before long and won't have to stress over it anymore. Hang in there!
😛