Advice on Dispute from eBay Buyer (iPhone 5)...

[Allthings-I]

Had it listed on Swappa for a while first with the only activity being people telling me I need to sell it for $215 or less.

Got burned by a seller on Swappa whol sold me an older Android device and never shipped.

Sorry to hear the trouble:

1) eBay will 100% side with the buyer, because they respect and do anything to win over the buyers and leave Sellers at losses that are at times unbearable. (I have read many stories on the web where people buy phones, then claim something wrong and send a different one back instead) and not only that where people claim to receive nothing in the box and even then eBay jumps ship to take the money away from you and hand it right back to the buyer. eBay abuses the term "Customers always right" and in turn sellers are 100% of the time left to pick up the bill unless you take eBay to small claims court in which they will back down and accept it that your are/were right (read about a story where seller had to go that far as well because eBay's ignorant CS and account specialists are the last people to sympathize with a seller).

2) Sell it on Craigslist, I helped a friend sell two weeks ago for $280 and it was in similar condition to yours without the box. Meet the person at a Starbucks, McDonalds or carrier store. Your not doing anything wrong as you are selling a clean, unlocked device.

Title it as: iPhone 5 16GB Silver AT&T T-Mobile MetroPCS Cricket 4G LTE

in description on Craigslist put:

I have a very good conditioned iPhone 5 16GB (Color here) Factory Unlocked and supports 4G + LTE on all networks. (Write about screen & back condition, and talk about any included accessories as well as warranty status if still available here).

Supports all networks 4G + LTE:
- AT&T
- AT&T GoPhone
- T-Mobile
- T-Mobile Prepaid
- MetroPCS
- Cricket (thenewcricket / AIO)
- Simple Mobile
- Straight Talk / Net10
- GoSmart Mobile
- H2O Wireless
- Go RedPocket Mobile
- Ultra Mobile
- Ptel
- Consumer Cellular

Bring your SIM and test it before you buy, can meet at starbucks, mcdonalds or carrier store so you can activate it.

Price: $300 -- NO SHIPPING / NO PAYPAL / LOCAL SALE ONLY

We have sold 4 of ours (although 5S and 5C) and I just helped my friend about 2 weeks ago sell his iPhone 5, same listing template and its been successful for us.

I would also like to recommend anyone selling on eBay:

1) Take note of your IMEI #, make a video of you going over the device.

2) Make a video of you packing the device into the box and ready for shipment,

3) Take a picture or video of the package with shipping label attached and/or being dropped off/picked up by the shipping company.

That should provide you overage against possible fraud from scammers around the globe taking advantage of innocent people. However I would highly advise dealing with someone locally you feel comfortable with by meeting at a public place that YOU are comfortable with and not the buyer.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Ah.. I see. That's a pretty significant but tiny (not to mention vague) distinction. The buyer could claim pretty much any excuse to claim "not as described".

Well, they can lie about something in order to send it back. You'll find out when you get the phone back if it was a lie or it actually has a bad speaker that might have broke after you shipped it. However, if you describe it as "iPhone won't turn on" and the buyer files a dispute claiming it won't turn on, ebay will actually side with you. I've seen it happen.

 

[aggiesrwe03]

Did you keep a copy of the imei or udid on the phone you sold? I would check and recheck make sure it's the same phone and he's not swapping out his bad phone for your good one. If he took it to the Apple Store then I would be surprised if they didn't replace it for one that worked they are pretty good about that and don't ask a lot of questions. Just seems fishy to me, I hope you don't get shafted.

 

[brent1977]

Did you keep a copy of the imei or udid on the phone you sold? I would check and recheck make sure it's the same phone and he's not swapping out his bad phone for your good one. If he took it to the Apple Store then I would be surprised if they didn't replace it for one that worked they are pretty good about that and don't ask a lot of questions. Just seems fishy to me, I hope you don't get shafted.

I have photos of both the back of the box and the About screen showing the IMEI, serial, etc. From the sound of it, though, that won't really matter if I'm sent back a different phone or even just an empty box.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

I have photos of both the back of the box and the About screen showing the IMEI, serial, etc. From the sound of it, though, that won't really matter if I'm sent back a different phone or even just an empty box.

Actually it does. If you get a different iPhone back, you can file a dispute with ebay/paypal and they may rule in your favor (assuming you took all steps to fall under paypal seller protection). Someone who did this won the dispute (attached) and got his money back.

 

[lordofthereef]

Anybody know whether I'll have any recourse with eBay or PayPal, if I get it back and there's nothing wrong with it? It'd be nice to at least get the shipping back.

Also, anybody know if PayPal will give me their fees back? Or am I out that, too?

Paypal will give you the fees back. It's sort of strange though... the buyer and seller both have to agree that the case is closed and the item was returned. If the buyer wants to be a ass he can just click "no" and be done with it.

If eBay rules that the buyer was trying to defraud you, then yes, all is refunded automatically.

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Well, they can lie about something in order to send it back. You'll find out when you get the phone back if it was a lie or it actually has a bad speaker that might have broke after you shipped it. However, if you describe it as "iPhone won't turn on" and the buyer files a dispute claiming it won't turn on, ebay will actually side with you. I've seen it happen.

I had eBay side with me AND the buyer years ago. I sold a camera. I mentioned that the last time I used it it worked fine, however I lost the charger (this was a canon back in the day when you removed the battery and placed it in a dock to charge). I did list it AS IS.

Buyer claimed it wouldn;t turn on even with his spare battery. I just let eBay handle it. About a week later they let me keep my money, refunded the buyer, and the buyer even sent the camera back.

One other time I had a similar thing happen to me as with the 3GS above. The difference was I took video of me boxing and shipping the item. Seller claimed screen was cracked, video obviously showed it wasn't and eBay sided with me on that.

 

[rgarjr]

6 months to file a claim now on paypal is ridiculous.

 

[dogg]

I like that idea. How is the best way to blacklist the device? Report it as stolen? How difficult is it to get it removed from the blacklist afterward?

Thanks!

I have lost a phone before well actually misplaced it. Found it an hour later but I called my provider and they immediately black listed it. When I called back they unblocked it. Very simple. Best way is to report it lost. Technically it isn't stolen. Yet...

Here in UK they are very strict when it comes to taking potential theft seriously. But will unblock as easily too if you can provide proof of ownership etc. That's my experience. I buy all my handsets out right off contract and have done for years. However the carriers remain true to their responsibilities. Tell the buyer your proposal. Good chance he will not proceed with the return.

 

[617aircav]

In fact way less hassle and way less money on Craigslist. OP would probably only get a third of that price on CL.



As was said before, record everything.

Just another eBay nonsense. They even have shipping calculators that just don't work. Everytime I list something there, I get roughly half of legitimate questions where a potential buyer asks me for a shipping quote as the friggin' calculator isn't working.



Cell providers usually don't give a **** about blacklist. "You got your phone stolen / else? Too bad for you, we'll sell you a new one, then.".



Forget it. It's difficult to get it blacklisted, and you'll end up in a maelstrom of transferred calls when you will try to remove it from there.



That's the reason why it's so complicated to sell any high-ticket item on eBay. You have to record absolutely everything, make calculations in advance because eBay's tools aren't working, prove everything you do as a seller. If I have to sell an iPhone on eBay, I'll easily spend the whole afternoon writing a post, between recordings, video editing, uploading, actual writing, checking transport rates, etc.



Unless you're a very high volume seller, you can't afford even a single negative review. From personal experience, I perceive American buyers as crybabies that wouldn't make a move to help understand and solve an issue.

On CL you have to be patient. It may take weeks to get the price you want. You will gt less than ebay but after fees and shipping it's close. Good thing about CL is once sold I have no further obligations. On eBay I have to wait 45 days to be in the clear.

 

[Pjrufus]

On CL you have to be patient. It may take weeks to get the price you want. You will gt less than ebay but after fees and shipping it's close. Good thing about CL is once sold I have no further obligations. On eBay I have to wait 45 days to be in the clear.

Ebay recently changed their terms, it is no longer 45 days, it is now 180 for a buyer to file a dispute.

 

[GrecoISU]

Way less hassle on Craiglist. You got $287? Thats good.

Once I get my iPhone 6, hopefully I can get $400+ for my 64GB iPhone 5S unlocked from ATT

I have a meeting set up for tonight to sell my iPhone 5 16GB for $250 through Craigslist.

 

[Cubytus]

On CL you have to be patient. It may take weeks to get the price you want. You will gt less than ebay but after fees and shipping it's close. Good thing about CL is once sold I have no further obligations. On eBay I have to wait 45 days to be in the clear.

May take weeks and may never materialize. No big deal for items that don't lose much value, but it is for cumbersome items.

 

[joshlalonde]

I want to know what happens in the end, even if the seller made a mistake.

Just really curious about this... I hope you win, seller.

 

[ET iPhone Home]

I would not have had it listed as 'excellent' if it had as you stated,

"Body is in excellent condition with only a couple minor scuffs/imperfections (tried to show in photos) - only noticeable when examined closely in bright lighting.”

Excellent means "as new". Perhaps describe as "in good condition".

Other than this, I would have him audio record a sample of the speaker output to justify his claim.

This is why I don't buy from eBay, Amazon, etc. It's hard to trust sellers (not to say you're not trustworthy).

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Other than this, I would have him audio record a sample of the speaker output to justify his claim.

You can't really compel the buyer to "justify" the claim. All the buyer has to do is say something is not as described or the seller failed to mention a defect, which results in an automatic return and their money back. Even if the buyer actually lied about the speaker and the OP gets the phone back in the condition that it was shipped out, it's too late and there's nothing the OP can do except sell it again. The burden of proof on justifying or disputing a claim rests solely on the seller and you can sometimes win disputes in this way. For example, lordofthereef provided a boxing video showing intact screen to dispute his buyer's claim of cracked screen and won the dispute.

If, however, the OP gets a different iPhone back he can file a fraud dispute and ebay/paypal may side with him depending on how well he documents it. Many sellers have won disputes in this way under ebay/paypal seller protection.

 

[IpadSC400]

Thanks for all the advice and experiences.

I sent the guy back a message telling him to relax and that it wasn't intentional and that I'll refund him when he ships it back.

Not looking forward to what I find when I open that box..........

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So why is "no returns" an option when listing, then? They should just remove that as an option.

I agree. But to tell you the truth, eBay couldn't give 2 craps about you and your business. I was a top rated seller, and they pulled the plug on me and my store. eBay is being taken over by china sellers and buyers with a feedback score of 2.

Buyers are the sellers jury, it does not matter if they don't know what side of the screwdriver to hold.

 

[brent1977]

I agree. But to tell you the truth, eBay couldn't give 2 craps about you and your business. I was a top rated seller, and they pulled the plug on me and my store. eBay is being taken over by china sellers and buyers with a feedback score of 2.

Buyers are the sellers jury, it does not matter if they don't know what side of the screwdriver to hold.

So true... Even after trying to help the guy, accepting the return, paying shipping both ways, and providing a full refund, I'll still probably end up with negative feedback.

The guy never even tried to contact me about the problem. Just went straight to an eBay dispute.

 

[Outrun1986]

Advice on Dispute from eBay Buyer (iPhone 5)...

I am not sure how much weight a boxing video would carry as the seller could simply unbox it after the video was made. I think your best defense is signature confirmation, insurance and tracking which proves you sent the package and covers you in case there is a problem.

When buying things on eBay I look for sellers items that are accurate and within eBay supplied stipulations which almost no seller follows. If I have a question I ask the seller and if they don't respond I don't bid.

For example in the video games category a "like new" game is one that does not have ANY scratches. This means if it has one scratch it's not like new, and the buyer can call you out on it. I have had it happen to me. Now in the real world this situation is impossible, it's almost impossible to deliver an opened video game that does not have one scratch on the case. Sometimes the cases even scratch through the shrink wrap while it's on a store shelf (but apparently it's OK to list that as "new" condition as long as the item is still sealed)....

Oh about the instant dispute, apparently there is no way now to send a comment to a seller after the auction without automatically opening a case on the seller.. Crappy but that seems to be the way eBay is now set up. Unless there is something I am missing

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

I am not sure how much weight a boxing video would carry as the seller could simply unbox it after the video was made. I think your best defense is signature confirmation, insurance and tracking which proves you sent the package and covers you in case there is a problem.

Well, that's generally true but can work to your advantage in certain cases like fellow member lordofthereef's situation, who used it to counter a buyer's claim that the iPhone arrived with the screen shattered. It's not convincing that a seller would make a boxing video of an intact iPhone then unbox it and smash the screen for no good reason before reboxing and shipping it out.

 

[perezr10]

I think after my bad experience with selling my phone on eBay I'm going to give a friend or a family member a sweet deal on my next phone I sell. Then you end up with some money, not as much, and a nice warm feeling.

 

[ET iPhone Home]

You can't really compel the buyer to "justify" the claim. All the buyer has to do is say something is not as described or the seller failed to mention a defect, which results in an automatic return and their money back. Even if the buyer actually lied about the speaker and the OP gets the phone back in the condition that it was shipped out, it's too late and there's nothing the OP can do except sell it again. The burden of proof on justifying or disputing a claim rests solely on the seller and you can sometimes win disputes in this way. For example, lordofthereef provided a boxing video showing intact screen to dispute his buyer's claim of cracked screen and won the dispute.

If, however, the OP gets a different iPhone back he can file a fraud dispute and ebay/paypal may side with him depending on how well he documents it. Many sellers have won disputes in this way under ebay/paypal seller protection.

I see… so there could be a potential fraud on the buyer's part. How long do these disputes take? It's all a headache for me since I just sell or even give away my used iPhones to immediate friends and family who want them. Which is another reason why I buy directly from Apple or a reputable store like Best Buy.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

I see… so there could be a potential fraud on the buyer's part. How long do these disputes take?

Yes, there's very much the risk of potential fraud on the buyer's part. I don't personally know how long these disputes take as I've never been scammed selling on ebay, but buyers now have up to 6 months after the sale to file a dispute, an unfortunate recent change Paypal made to be in line with the 6-month window for credit card chargebacks.

That's why I don't think it's worth the risk to flip a brand new 6/6+ on ebay for profits. However, I've successfully ebayed all year-old iPhones since the original (albeit after relisting a couple of times due to non-paying bidders) so I've been lucky so far. It wouldn't hurt me too much financially when I do get scammed one of these days. I use up the sales money as quickly as I can once it lands in my Paypal account and I don't have my checking account linked. I'm fully prepared to abandon my Paypal account and leave it in the red if I do get screwed several months later. Fortunately, Paypal isn't a bank and have no real power to collect if you don't have anything linked.

 

[trlyka]

I've been selling on eBay for about a year with only a few issues but nothing that wasn't worked out. I was thinking of putting my 5 on there when I get my 6. If the buyer wants a refund, don't fight it but make sure you get your phone back first. There are a lot of scams (especially on Craig's list) where buyers pay, say the item is not as described, get the money back from PayPal or bank and then either never return the item or return a different item. Just be careful and good luck

 

[rGiskard]

Searched the forum for similar threads in the past year or so, but didn't see anything relevant. Am hoping for some advice.

I've sold my used electronics and photographic equipment on eBay for a while with no problems. No business or anything - just to recoup some money on items I no longer use. My feedback is 92/100%.

On 10/30, I sold an iPhone 5 that was, IMO, in excellent shape. I bought it used and had been using it for a little bit with no problems. Prior to selling, I thought I tested everything (including audio recording). Like I always do, I specified "no returns" since I was confident in the condition and photos of the item.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321563270239

The buyer received the item on 11/3 and I assumed all was well. Today, though, the buyer has initiated a return saying "This phone has a bad speaker, I had it checked, all calls are garbled. You advertised it as excellent condition, I don t want it am sending it back".

He has 100% positive feedback, so I have a hard time imagining that he's just trying to run some scam. I'm not sure how far my responsibility goes, though. Even if the phone is damaged/defective, how can I be sure that it was that way when he received it? He's had it over a week.

Ok, first off, there is no such thing as "No Returns" on ebay, because ebay (rightly) always sides with the buyer in any he said/she said dispute. All you do by specifying "No Returns" is give buyers an incentive to damage your goods in order to create a reason to return them. Thus it is better to simply offer returns. It also shows confidence in your items when you offer returns, and suggests to buyers that you care about customer service after the sale.

Would you buy any electronics from a store that advertised "No Returns"? I sure as hell wouldn't - I'd figure they're selling defective crap.

Again, if you escalate to an ebay dispute with this buyer, you WILL lose. You'll also get negative feedback for being a DB. Far better to graciously accept the return and sell the iPhone to someone else who can appreciate it.

I've sold a LOT of stuff on ebay, all the way from $4K Mac Pros to $1 adapter cables. There have been times when I missed defects. It happens, we're all human, and customers are surprisingly forgiving as long as you take action to make it right. Some of the best feedback I have is from buyers who got defective stuff. And it not only makes their day better, it makes YOU feel better when your customers are happy.

One more thing... Suppose you have to relist the phone as having a bad speaker - it will fetch about the same price. Really! Ebay bidders are CRAZY when it comes to something like an iPhone. I regularly see less than perfect items sell for more than perfect items - mostly it is about timing and seller reputation.

One last thing: If you want to avoid negative feedback, tell him that you'll reimburse him for return shipping once you receive the item and verify the bad speaker. It's only a few bucks and it keeps the natives calm.

 

[brent1977]

Update on this since some had expressed interest in the outcome.

Already mentioned that I was required to authorize eBay to charge me to provide the buyer with a return shipping label. So I assume all he had to do was tape the box shut and drop it off at USPS. So far, eBay shows he hasn't, so who knows what he's doing with the phone in the meantime. He supposedly only has until the 20th to ship it.

Haven't heard a peep from either eBay or the buyer since agreeing to and approving the refund/return process - within hours of his original complaint.

In the meantime, PayPal has screwed up my account. They moved the original payment (which had already cleared) back into pending and have already added a pending charge for the refund.

So, now I have a negative balance. When I try to add funds with my CC to zero out the balance, I'm told...
"We're sorry, you don't have permission to complete this action. For more information, contact the person who controls your account permissions."

So apparently I'm no longer the "person who controls" the account, and I'm not permitted to add funds to resolve the negative balance that they keep nagging me is going to result in limitations on my account if not corrected.