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patrick0brien said:
Spanking is humiliating, painful, and emotionally traumatic.

And thought should be given to its use.

1. I was spanked (back of the thighs with a yardstick -YEEEEAOW!), whenever I did a bad. But my parent were very very clear to tie the punishment to the crime, and used it only for the worst offenses. Lesser ones ranges from "Sent to Room", "Sent to bed w/o Supper", and revocation of privileges.

If I may explain a bit on my opening sentence a bit, spanking is humiliating, pulling the pants down is a terrific forboding to what is about to happen, painful (well DUH!), and emotionally traumatic - I knew that my father loved me, and even when I was 5 or 6, knew it was hard for him to do, and that affected me.

2. Only do it to you own kids. You are parents only to them. If the child is a guest, consider them having 'diplomatic immunity' and report their doings to their own parents for punishment in their 'home country'. And explain to the child's parents that they wouldn't be as welcome until the child grew up a bit.

Lastly: I hated it at the time, but now, at 33 really appreciate my paren't old-school approach to child discipline. It taught me right from wrong and what conequences were.


I didn't pull down the pants or anything. Just a firm swat to the behind. It wasn't hard, I wasn't being malicious... I was disciplining.

As for the parent taking care of it... one, she wasn't. Two, telling a kid, "I'm gonna tell your mommy on you..." well by the time Mom gets to it, it's something from the past and no big deal anymore. You can't punish a kid when it's all blown over.

Otherwise, thanks for your thoughts, everyone.
 
annk said:
I think spanking is unacceptable. Violence does not teach any useful lesson. Spanking is a poor excuse for real parenting.

i think spanking is perfectly acceptable in some situation, and it is real parenting.

with that said, it should not be used excessively, if excessively used, the kid will no longer be affected by it, and become violent him/herself

and spanking should be accompanied with some lecture, so the kid understanding that you didn't spank because you hate him, but you did it because you love him

however, ^that was for your own kid... in your case, you probably should have a talk with your sister asap, figure out a way to control the kid that you both agree... perhaps sound apologitic about your irrational action
 
I'm on the "don't really think spanking is a good solution for your own kids and definitely do not spank anyone else's kids" team.

But...that aside, I just wanted to mention that how you handled the previous issue with the girl touching the computer was a different matter... you didn't spank her, correct? And your sister berated you... And also didn't take any personal responsibility for making sure her daughter respected your rules, which is a thing you have a right to in your home. Kids watch the behavior and not just the commands of their parents. She doesn't seem to set a good example for her kids. That's her own issue and not one she has a right to blame on you.
 
rspeaker said:
I didn't pull down the pants or anything. Just a firm swat to the behind. It wasn't hard, I wasn't being malicious... I was disciplining.

As for the parent taking care of it... one, she wasn't. Two, telling a kid, "I'm gonna tell your mommy on you..." well by the time Mom gets to it, it's something from the past and no big deal anymore. You can't punish a kid when it's all blown over.

Otherwise, thanks for your thoughts, everyone.

The strength of the blow doesn't matter - the signal is the same.

And the fact that the parent isn't addressing the issue, is something to discuss with the parent - not to deal with by hitting the child.

I appreciate that this is a delicate situation for you. Hope you can get some sort of constructive discussion going with the parents. You're obviously thinking about this, and are open to opinions. Good luck, hope all the energy you are putting into this will result in the parents learning something!
 
I wouldn't have spanked someone elses kids thats for the parent to do. Though I think its a very ineffective form of punishment and shouldn't be used
 
I was spanked as a kid. Whenever my mom did it, it never hurt and I tried to not laugh :D. But when my dad did it ... :eek:. You learn fast from that.
 
MarkCollette said:
I could understand if you've found a better approach with your kids, but to say it's not even an option sounds a little ludicrous to me.

I think you misunderstood me... not an option to spank a child that is not yours especially when the parents have said they don't want their child spanked.

With your own kids, yes, if the parent thinks a situation calls for a spanking than that is their choice and is certainly an option.
 
rspeaker said:
I'm not a mother, but I frequently help watch my niece and nephew. I've been requested by my sister Heather to find a parenting forum to discuss a recent situation. I appreciate all feedback.

My brother Cory began watching my niece Kelsey after school at the end of August. He works nights, so he gives up some sleeping time, but he really enjoys doing this. Truth be told, my niece is a cute little kid, and she can be fun to have around. Every day, my sister picks her up from our apartment, after first picking up our three year old nephew Colton from daycare. He's fun sometimes, but he often has too much energy and simply has no regard for authority. When he comes over, our mild-mannered niece often starts acting out too. Our family isn't sure if it's because she's excited to see him, or if she's trying to make up for attention lost when he's around, but it happens regardless.

The other night she came to pick up Kelsey, Colton came in, and he and Kelsey started acting up, ie running around the apartment, and Colton was jumping on, running on, jumping off, and climbing up the arm of the couch. In about a ten to fifteen minute period, I told him twice to sit on the couch, and my sister told him twice. I told him a third time, so he jumped off the couch and proceeded to climb up the arm from the side (which is right where my sister was sitting.) I stood up, grabbed him under his arms, set him on the ground, and gave a firm but not hard spanking. He didn't cry, he just sat down right where he was. He sat there for about five minutes; under verbal warnings, he never stopped. It was the first time I've ever spanked a child, and truly, can't imagine hitting or abusing a child; I simply gave him one spanking on the behind, and let it be.

My sister made as if she was going to hit me, and then proceeded to tell me how she's repeatedly told me not to lay my hands on her children. Less than three weeks prior, my niece was touching my very expensive computer, which I told her twice not to touch. She touched it a third time, so I came in, picked her up under her arms, carried her to the door, and merely said, "Put on your shoes; we're leaving now." This occured while both my sister and brother-in-law where here; in fact, my sister was not six inches from Kelsey when she was touching the computer.

Long story short is, my sister spent an hour giving me an angry lecture about how I don't know how to deal with children, and how I merely undermine her role as a parent by taking things into my own hands. The question is, was it irresponsible for me to do this? We have clearly defined rules here, which both kids and parents are aware of. If the parent does nothing, is it wrong to do something myself? Are our rules, not jumping/climbing on the couch, too tight; is that something little kids don't understand, as my sister insists?

She said to post and get some feedback. This really isn't about spanking, not meant to spark some big debate on that, but merely focused on this specific instance (which, as I said, is the only time I've used a spanking as discipline.) Thanks, and if anyone has questions/needs clarification, I'd be happy to do so..


IMO, spanknig can be used as a means of disciplining your children if they don't respond well to verbal orders.

Bottom line in this situation - if your sister had any regard for you, she'd be the one stopping her kid from messing up your things. It sounds like their misbehavior might stem from a lack of discipline in their own home. It's hard to raise well behaved children these days... but somebody's got to do it.

Good luck with it.
 
In my opinion, hitting your children as a form of discipline is an effective way of getting them to learn their lesson. I was hit hard all the time by my mum when I grew up (pretty much traditional Chinese way of dealing with children :eek: ) and I learnt my lessons quick. Obviously, I hated it at the time, but I understood why my parents did it, and to be honest I'm glad they did because I wouldn't like to have turned out any other way.

The OP's case is different though, if they're not your children then by no means you should hit them unless circumstances dictate otherwise. I know a lot of aunts and uncles have close relationships with their nieces and nephews, but hitting them is absolutely out of the question.
 
Tell your sister that she is supposed to be her kids parent, not try to be their popular friend.

I personally believe a swift one-off spank gets the message across when nothing else does. You have to act on what you tell a child. Not all the time, mind, but there are occasions when they need an action to bring them back to teh real world.

I love my sisters that say "stop doing that or you are really in trouble" like 20 times without actually doing anything..kids aren't stupid, they learn quick when parents are all talk and no action.

You did the right thing, but if she does not like your style, tell her to arrange for different caretakers.
 
Just for the record, I read your original post, and none of the other long two pages of posts, so I apologize if someone has touched on any of my points.

- You were right to discipline the kid, but spanking wasn't the way to do it. However, if the parent is present, you should allow (AND EXPECT) the parent to take care of it. You need to have a sit-down with your sister and tell her that she needs to be more aware of how her kids are behaving in the presence of others.

- I don't know about you, but I think that spanking kids is wrong. We teach children to not be violent and to solve problems with words, and then we turn around and we hit them when they're out of line. I think that's a big contradiction. Anyway, if you want to spank your own kids - that's one thing, but you can't spank someone else's kids. That's a decision that only a parent can make.

In conclusion, talk to your sister. But don't hit her kids. That's a little bit over the line, even though there were no malicious intentions.
 
StarbucksSam said:
Just for the record, I read your original post, and none of the other long two pages of posts, so I apologize if someone has touched on any of my points.

- You were right to discipline the kid, but spanking wasn't the way to do it. However, if the parent is present, you should allow (AND EXPECT) the parent to take care of it. You need to have a sit-down with your sister and tell her that she needs to be more aware of how her kids are behaving in the presence of others.

- I don't know about you, but I think that spanking kids is wrong. We teach children to not be violent and to solve problems with words, and then we turn around and we hit them when they're out of line. I think that's a big contradiction. Anyway, if you want to spank your own kids - that's one thing, but you can't spank someone else's kids. That's a decision that only a parent can make.

In conclusion, talk to your sister. But don't hit her kids. That's a little bit over the line, even though there were no malicious intentions.

See, I think a repeated beating to the arse or anywhere else is wrong. That's abuse.

A good swift smack to the behind or to the hand (no face) serves to get the child's attention and literally say "hey you, snap the eff out of it." As long as it is a method of last resort, and done right, I would have no issue using one swat to my kid's behind to make a point.

Kids don't associate a spanking with violence being OK IMHO. It's a consequence of an action.
 
I'd say that your sister needs some help with parenting, and if she doesn't want her children to be spanked, she should have respect for you and restrain them.

Spanking doesn't do any permanent damage when done properly.

Of course, I can't remember how many times my relatives put away their valuables and break-ables when children were visiting.

I don't think most parents have any idea how rude they are for not dealing with their children. I'm sure it's extremely inconvenient to leave a store when your child won't stop crying but parents choose their path. They need to do the right thing.
 
iGary said:
See, I think a repeated beating to the arse or anywhere else is wrong. That's abuse.

A good swift smack to the behind or to the hand (no face) serves to get the child's attention and literally say "hey you, snap the eff out of it." As long as it is a method of last resort, and done right, I would have no issue using one swat to my kid's behind to make a point.

Kids don't associate a spanking with violence being OK IMHO. It's a consequence of an action.

I'm definitely not from the school of thought "People who hit their kids twice a year need to be locked up." The other side of this issue does have a compelling point and there are sometimes when I see kids in restaurants who just really need a good smack. I do agree that it sends a message to a kid about authority - but I don't like that kids are supposed to FEAR authority. I wouldn't choose it for my kids, if I ever had any (God forbid).

Fear is not a substitute for respect.
 
Disclaimer: I am only 20 with no kids. It may seem I have no right to speak out in this debate, but I, with my mother, have been raising my twin brother and sister for 5 years now.

What is funny about your story is this sounds exactly like my mom. Since she knows this will be her last batch (sounds weird to say i suppose) of kids she is smothering them and spoiling them left and right. Her kids at 5 talk back, throw tantrums, etc. When I'm alone watching them they are decent kids, but the minute my mother enters the door they are horrible horrible kids.

The lack of the mothers discipline in the situations should not be tolerated. If I would have been in that situation I would have spanked the kids, then scolded the sister for her lack in respect to you and her lack in parenting skills.

I agree with spanking. I think most kids do deserve a good slap once and a while. No not pulling the pance down or physical objects. It sounds like your sister had no set rules when at your house; in regards to how you should tend to her children, so that is merely a communication problem. Since she feels you should not spank them then you must respect her wishes, but at that same time she must respect your rules at your house and she needs discipline accordingly. And when she is not around you must follow her ways of discipline or ways discussed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
To those saying spanking promotes violence or shows violence is ok please show me the studies. When showing me the studies remember "correlation does not equal causation."
 
IMO, spanking is alright only used as a punishment for your own child, and as a last resort.

I was spanked as a child when I disobeyed my parents, and especially when my dad did it.:eek:...ouch. You quickly learn not to do wrong...

Without wanting to sound too arrogant, I believe I'm quite a well behaved teenager. I think this was my parents....being strict when they needed to be, and rewarding good behavior...



So after me waffling, I think spanking is OK, but only as a "last resort".
 
It's always possible to find other disciplinary methods besides spanking that works. It's not the method that's important, but clear rules and consistent and immediate application of rewards and punishments.

The problem with spanking is that the kid may start "depending" on spanking to get an idea of what's acceptable, and that can make the kid more of a problem to handle in kindergarten and school because those disciplinary actions aren't available to the staff there.

It's better to use methods that can be agreed upon and used by all the authority figures in the childs life. It makes it all less confusing for the child, too.

poppe said:
What is funny about your story is this sounds exactly like my mom. Since she knows this will be her last batch (sounds weird to say i suppose) of kids she is smothering them and spoiling them left and right. Her kids at 5 talk back, throw tantrums, etc. When I'm alone watching them they are decent kids, but the minute my mother enters the door they are horrible horrible kids.

The lack of the mothers discipline in the situations should not be tolerated. If I would have been in that situation I would have spanked the kids, then scolded the sister for her lack in respect to you and her lack in parenting skills.
No, that's not a good idea. If the children have little respect for the mother, then walking all over the mother's authority like that will only give them less respect. You're going to have to take the mother aside and talk to her about it. You can encourage her to enforce stronger discipline, but if she doesn't want to, it's her choice eventually.
 
OK, I need to comment again: I beleive that the OP gave a single swat to the kid's rear end, NOT a spanking. All this serves to do is surprise the kid and get his attention and it worked. He behaved after that. Spanking regularly is not a good idea because it becomes ineffective. Beatings are abuse.

Let's get a little perspective here...:D
 
gekko513 said:
It's always possible to find other disciplinary methods besides spanking that works. It's not the method that's important, but clear rules and consistent and immediate application of rewards and punishments.

The problem with spanking is that the kid may start "depending" on spanking to get an idea of what's acceptable, and that can make the kid more of a problem to handle in kindergarten and school because those disciplinary actions aren't available to the staff there.

It's better to use methods that can be agreed upon and used by all the authority figures in the childs life. It makes it all less confusing for the child, too.


No, that's not a good idea. If the children have little respect for the mother, then walking all over the mother's authority like that will only give them less respect. You're going to have to take the mother aside and talk to her about it. You can encourage her to enforce stronger discipline, but if she doesn't want to, it's her choice eventually.

I'm sorry I was not clear. I never meant go right in the middle of the room right infront of the kids and start chewing the mother out. No I meant after the whole fiasco with the kids. Take the mom to the side and rip her a new one because she has no respect for the OP as it seems
 
CHAOS STEP said:
Forget the child, perhaps the poster should have given her sister a clip round the ear instead :)

That would seem to be useful but she'd probably call the police and then, he'd be in a jail cell. Regardless, it wouldn't be a good idea for the kids to see him hitting her. Emulating adults is something children sometimes do very well.
 
It takes a village to raise a child. The mother in this situation is a pushover and the kids know that. She's undermining her own authority by not taking decisive action when her kids misbehave. Different people have different methods and most are valid. Light spanking works well on some kids, and on others it doesn't. Friends with their kids? Are you kidding me? All the kids I knew that were "freinds" with their parents were junkies and losers. Kids don't need you to be their friend, they need you to be their parent.
 
Even spanking *your own* children is by every current pedagogical account a bad thing. Spanking someone else's children without the parent's explicit consent is completely unacceptable.

Nannies who do this not only get fired immediately, they can also face criminal charges. You simply are in no place doing this to the child of someone who explicitly disapproves of corporal punishment. This is a personal education choice parents must make, and really is not in any way up to you to decide. You also have no legal right to discipline someone else's child, and that's for a good reason.

I also believe that happily hopping up and down a couch is a rather harmless activity for an active toddler. If you cannot tolerate this behavior in a small child, and if you can't have authority with kids without resorting to grabbing, yelling, and hitting, you should a) not have small children over at your house, and b) not watch other people's children, regardless of location.

Children are simply not for everyone. I know they drive some people nuts. Well... those people should not deal with kids close-up.
 
true777 said:
I also believe that happily hopping up and down a couch is a rather harmless activity for an active toddler. If you cannot tolerate this behavior in a small child, and if you can't have authority with kids without resorting to grabbing, yelling, and hitting, you should a) not have small children over at your house, and b) not watch other people's children, regardless of location.

Children are simply not for everyone. I know they drive some people nuts. Well... those people should not deal with kids close-up.
I've refrained from participating in this thread up until now, but if you think that letting you child jump up and down on someone else's couch is OK, IMHO you're not doing the kid any favors.

Kids do need to learn that certain behaviors are best reserved for certain environments, for their safety and the sanity of others. If one has kids that feel the need to jump on couches or beds, perhaps it's because you didn't take them to a playground or let them run around in the backyard enough that day. And even if they are allowed to jump on the sofa or pound on a computer at home, they should know that when they visit someone else's house they should refrain from those behaviors or at least ask first before engaging in them.

B
 
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