After Beta, Messages Will Be Exclusive to OS X Mountain Lion

[sweetbrat]

I don't get it. Apple made the Beta available, which is great. Now everyone is freaking out that they'll have to upgrade to ML if they want to continue using it later on. Sure, it's a teaser to try to get people to upgrade. They show you something cool, let you try it out, and tell you that if you want it long-term you'll have to purchase the upgrade. The distinction here is that Apple is only offering it as part of a bundle—with ML. Other companies bundle stuff together all the time. Either buy the bundle (in this case, ML) or live with what you already have. I don't see that as being evil or dishonest...it's business.

 

[Mitochris]

Won't or can't upgrade

The issue is not whether one wants to upgrade. Some actually can't. My company is on SL for Macs and XP for windows. This won't change until we have relocated by the end of the year. Going the rate of yearly upgrades, IT departments around the world won't be able to keep up with the pace, let alone developers of specialised software. We might then even skip 10.7 and 10.8, waiting for 10.9.

 

[AppleMad98004]

There is no reason whatsoever for consumers to have to spend constantly to be able to do the things they "need". A macbook from 2006 can do everything a new macbook air can, infact it can do more.

People have just let themselves be brainwashed into believing that they MUST have the latest stuff or they are an inferior human being, which as anyone with a braincell will tell you is utter BS.

Agreed, but if you do need (mostly systems engineers like me) or do want the latest, the upgrade cycle will be more frequent. That is all I was saying.

 

[Xero910]

I wonder if they let you downgrade to iChat or just say tough ****

 

[kingtj]

Would you like any cheese with that whine?

I mean, "news flash" ... commercial business actually wants to generate some profit from new software apps they develop.

Your 2007 "blackbook" is 5 years old already, and Mountain Lion won't even be released until around August.... That's fine if you can't afford a "shiny new Mac" right now. Not suggesting you should over-extend yourself to buy something you can't afford. But like they say in the "performance car upgrade" community all the time? "You've got to pay to play!"

What you've got is a very nice computer, made 5+ years ago, that's still capable of running the most recent versions of Apple's operating system, all the way through the middle of this year. By then, yes, they'll finally release one your system can't run anymore. So what? If you've GOT to have the latest and greatest, you'll need to resell that computer and buy something a little newer to make it work. (And you don't need a "shiny new" Mac to accomplish that either. You could buy someone's 1-2 year old Macbook Pro or something and get a significant upgrade at relatively little cost after recouping money from the resale of your Macbook.)

Damn you Apple. I love your products but unbelievable greed excretes form every pore of you. If it isn't bad enough that my 2007 blackbook won't run Mountain Lion you now are denying your faithful customers useful features. Listen i can't afford a nice shiny new Mac to have this feature, so how about you cut the little guy some slack and make this available to all.

 

[deftdrummer]

Damn you Apple. I love your products but unbelievable greed excretes form every pore of you. If it isn't bad enough that my 2007 blackbook won't run Mountain Lion you now are denying your faithful customers useful features. Listen i can't afford a nice shiny new Mac to have this feature, so how about you cut the little guy some slack and make this available to all.

Your computer is 5 years old. As is mine.

 

[AppleMad98004]

I wonder if they let you downgrade to iChat or just say tough ****

Just go to the Messages menu and click Uninstall Messages Beta and your machine will return iChat etc.. how it was. This will be required when the beta expires if you don't upgrade to Mountain Lion.

 

[The Phazer]

Dear Apple: If you want to bribe me into upgrading my OS, then let me fully disable versions. Develop your crappy iCloud alternative file system if you want, but if you're going to do that, can we have the proper file system back as an alternative.

Then I'll gladly give you the money for OS upgrades, instead of trying stupid anti-customer rubbish like this.

Phazer

 

[kingtj]

Yeah....

Right now, it's WAY too early to act like these 10 announced features give you a petty complete picture of what 10.8 will give you. Apple *never* releases a new OS with "10 new features". They release them with "hundreds of new features".

Unless something changes drastically from the past, quite a few changes of real value and importance will also be "under the hood" items that end-users don't ever really see or notice directly. They're such things as performance improvements, new system libraries and functions programmers can link to in their software, security improvements that help keep the OS from getting hacked, etc. etc.

In the past, the growth of their "core" libraries alone were major improvements that most users discounted UNTIL they started enjoying new apps that came out implementing them ("Core Audio" and "Core Video" for example).

Honestly, it's these "revised skeleton" type of changes that interest me the most. I know most of the stuff that gets hyped and demoed will be "fluff" by comparison, put there to generate sales.

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I understand that no matter what you do someone will not like it, but I'm just glad they're going to allow you to do mirroring and iMessage. That alone would be evought for me to pay for the upgrade. Looking forward to purchasing a MacBook pro later on this year.

 

[nick_elt]

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What do you mean it wont run on my apple lisa??? How dare you apple!!!!

 

[ManMadeHuman]

No, I think it is being released as 10.8 because it comes right after 10.7.

You should really read John Gruber's account of the private demo of 10.8 he got from Phil Schiller. It's not because they want to show up Windows 8, it's because they want to start having yearly releases of OS X to coincide with yearly releases of iOS.

Apple's Mac strategy is exactly opposite what most people on MR seem to think it is.

No i didn't say "show up microsoft". I simply meant for perception's sake.

In the past the the second number has been to describe a real OS update. Updates like 10.8 are bringing are not deserving of that spot. They are more deserving of a 10.7.5. That is always how apple did it in the past.

MS is releasing a high profile OS this year.. just seems to make since for Apple to release a BRAND NEW VERSION at the same time.

 

[SkippyThorson]

Damn you Apple. I love your products but unbelievable greed excretes form every pore of you. If it isn't bad enough that my 2007 blackbook won't run Mountain Lion you now are denying your faithful customers useful features. Listen i can't afford a nice shiny new Mac to have this feature, so how about you cut the little guy some slack and make this available to all.

This is what I thought, until...

I was thinking after beta, Messages will be $0.99 for Lion users, and included with Mountain Lion. This is what they did with FaceTime.

...I remembered FaceTime. I'm fairly hopeful that any Lion users (friends and family) will be able to get the full Messages App by purchasing the $0.99 version in the Mac App Store after Mountain Lion's release.

As for myself, I plan on upgrading to Mountain Lion anyway. No real gripes from me, but as for family and friends who can't upgrade to Mountain Lion, that's a real downer.

My other half has the late-2008 white MacBook while I have the late-2008 Aluminum MacBook. I can run Portal, she can't. I can upgrade to Mountain Lion, she can't. All is not well in the world if things aren't fair.

(Help me out here, Apple. )

 

[C00rDiNaT0r]

Darn, I didn't know that... well, back then I only had a few Mac buddies and I used to see enough of them during the day to really want to see then inside iChat again.

So, what's going to happen when the beta expires?

I suppose this answers your question, if you haven't already read it:

Just go to the Messages menu and click Uninstall Messages Beta and your machine will return iChat etc.. how it was. This will be required when the beta expires if you don't upgrade to Mountain Lion.

 

[Thomas2006]

Maybe Apple knows, that Messages can't be integrated without problems in Lion, that's why it will be ML exclusive.

If Messages can't be integrated without problems in Lion, then why is there a beta for Lion? I think it is a way to get people to upgrade to OS X Mountain Lion. First, get people used to Messages then when the beta expires they will miss it so much they will upgrade to Mountain Lion to get it back.

 

[Amazing Iceman]

I suppose this answers your question, if you haven't already read it:

I did read it. My question actually is: Once the beta expires, how do I get iChat back?

 

[moderngamenewb]

I was thinking after beta, Messages will be $0.99 for Lion users, and included with Mountain Lion. This is what they did with FaceTime.

That's what I was thinking too

 

[jonnysods]

This would be a great way to send messages to my wife from work, and collaborate with all my workmates.

 

[Böhme417]

For the features listed so far, I'd say ML is worth a max of $4.99. I would like it if I could actually use Messages. I've installed/uninstalled four times, and it still doesn't work. It won't do anything. I'll start typing a person's name or number, and I'll get a beach ball. Crash. Report. Rinse, and repeat. I can't get Messages to work at all.

 

[calderone]

I did read it. My question actually is: Once the beta expires, how do I get iChat back?

Here you go. After it expires, a message will likely be displayed either saying:

1. The beta expired, click here to reinstall iChat.
2. The beta expired, but you can upgrade to ML
3. The beta expired, but you can buy it for .99 in the App Store


You also will probably have access to menu bar actions, so the same process will likely apply.

 

[krzyglue]

People are willing to pay $2k for a computer but not $25 for a software upgrade? jees! quit complaining!

The word "principle" clearly means more to others than it does to you.

 

[JonB3Z]

For the features listed so far, I'd say ML is worth a max of $4.99.

I expect there will be more features in the actual release, but if it's not worth it to you, by all means don't get it. As for me, if it's priced at $30 like Lion, I'll definitely get it, especially since I'll be upgrading three Macs (2011 iMac, 2009 MBP, 2011 Mac Mini) for that price -- that is, about $10 per computer.

 

[krzyglue]

But this is only the first Beta, nothing to say much more isnt included or will be included. But I do agree all the Social stuff is a bit boring!

Well I remember a quote during the first Lion demo they gave– Craig said "these are just some of the features coming...". Wasn't that pretty much it? I don't remember any significant new features being revealed between that demo and launch.

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In more shocking news today it's rumored that Adobe Lightroom 4 will also be a paid upgrade once moved from public beta to final release. Microsoft, which will release its new version 8 OS as a public beta later this month, also will not be free upon final release. Leeches and self-entitled people everywhere are shocked at the corporate greed.

Poor analogy. If Microsoft made Windows Live Messenger stop working on every version of Windows except 8 once that ships, I expect the full support of most members of this forum.

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Bait and switch? Don't use a phrase if you don't understand what it means. Bait and switch is when a company advertises Product A at a great price but when you go to the store it's suddenly "unavailable." But now that they have you in the store and you are in a mindset to buy they use hard or soft sell to get you to buy similar Product B which is X more expensive.

What Apple is doing is offering the general public a sneak peak at an upcoming product. It's no different than a movie company issuing a long version trailer of an upcoming movie.

The ridiculous thing about all the complaining is that when Apple use to not release any public betas the cry was "even Microsoft issues public betas." Now that Apple has released its first in a long time the cry is "this is just a scam."

The only Microsoft software betas that expire are for full versions of Windows or Office. If Apple released a *public* beta of Mountain Lion (or Mac Office), I bet most would have no issue if it expires. Seriously, are you that bad at constructing analogies?

 

[WestonHarvey1]

No i didn't say "show up microsoft". I simply meant for perception's sake.

In the past the the second number has been to describe a real OS update. Updates like 10.8 are bringing are not deserving of that spot. They are more deserving of a 10.7.5. That is always how apple did it in the past.

MS is releasing a high profile OS this year.. just seems to make since for Apple to release a BRAND NEW VERSION at the same time.

They've never done it that way. When have major features and redesigned applications ever been released mid-cycle like that? Maybe in the 10.1 days but I don't really remember.

The 8 thing is just a happy coincidence, if anything. The perception that they are really trying to push is that the Mac is not a second class citizen at Apple. It will be updated in tandem with iOS from now on.

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The word "principle" clearly means more to others than it does to you.

What "principle" is being threatened by Apple's OS X pricing? How is it worse than how it was, paying $129 every couple years for a release? It now takes about 4 years to spend much on OS updates.

 

[sanford]

I'm one of those people -- original MacBook Air, speculated unsupported by final Mountain Lion release -- who would certainly buy a Mountain Lion upgrade, but I'm a writer with very modest laptop performance needs, and three kids with the usual kid needs, so I won't dash out and buy a new Mac just to run Mountain Lion.

Mountain Lion is scheduled for "summer 2012 release." Summer doesn't end until September. Apple has a tendency to push the seasonally announced release window right down to the wire. I think it's a little early to assume iMessage won't be available, like FaceTime, for a fee in the MacApp Store just on the evidence of the beta expiration language promoting Mountain Lion. Perhaps Apple has already planned to sell it separately. Perhaps they're considering it but haven't decided. Perhaps they've decided against but will respond to demand and offer a MacApp Store version. Perhaps Mountain Lion's supported hardware list will expand for the final release.

Who knows? Wait for an official announcement and then freak out. Or, better yet, email Apple and throw your request up on Twitter, too, and maybe they'll release it on the MacApp Store.

Maybe not. But, seriously, how many of you who are already so enamored of iMessage for OS X don't also own on an OS 5-supported iPhone or iPad, or both? And how far away from your Mac do you keep those devices when you're sitting at your desk? If you already have an iPhone or iPad, iMessage for OS X is a very, very small feature. I'm been pining for a OS X iMessage app and now that I have one I realized with my phone right near me, my first instinct is to reach for it.)

(It's definitely a beta though. Yesterday afternoon it was syncing messages fine across my Air, my iPhone and my iPad. This morning it just quit working in that capacity. I sent an iMessage this morning to my daughter's phone and got a reply, which synced, but it's no longer syncing anything I've sent or received from my phone with other iMessage users.)

 

[ed724]

Wow, you didn't have it before the beta was intro'd and you got along fine. Now it looks as though it may only work in ML and you all whine about it. Really pathetic.