'After Steve' Examines the Tensions That Led to Jony Ive's Departure From Apple

[dysamoria]

The excerpts offered in this article… I’m halfway on them: Halfway in agreement, and halfway against.

Ive without Jobs was definitely bad for Apple, and it was bad enough that we could see it from the outside of a highly secretive company.

But, yes, the complaints about the current Apple business mindset is correct: They’re obsessed with services and Wall Street nonsense. They’re pushing app developers to be the same in how they’re pushing subscriptions, etc. It started with in-app purchases destroying the existence of software developed to be bought and used, turning it into a scam to pull continuous money from users/customers for no value (a sociopathic obsession shared by the gaming industry).

It’s actually fairly similar to the crypto bros trying to sell everyone on their pyramid schemes, only this is an industry-influencing corporation pushing customer-abuse behaviors as a profitable business model.

The App Store was an initial neat idea that never properly evolved into something truly effective. Every change has been about maximizing profits and share price, not service to customers, users, or developers.

2013 and iOS 7 was the end of Apple’s 2000s golden era. I’ve been tolerating them since then, but not enjoying or feeling any confidence in them. The company is less bad than the rest of the computer industry, but I remember (and deeply miss) when they were actively BETTER.

The recent releases of new Mac hardware has been encouraging, but Apple software (including the OS) is rife with design stupidity (does nobody at Apple understand what a multiple-selection UI is for and how one works??), and bugs. Endless new bugs are added in the cost of pushing new “features”, and rarely do multiple-years-present (and reported) bugs get fixed. I updated from iOS 12.x to iOS 15.x and have liked some changes, but it feels like core functionality has barely been improved, and some changes are utterly idiotic. Some bugs I know well from iOS 12 are still there and new ones are present, making new functionality half-assed (I am constantly encountering bugs, still, with keyboard stuff, and the new-to-me swiping mode for typing is neat, and loaded with new bugs; how long has it been here in iOS??).

If “lost its soul” refers to the obsession with Wall Street gambling den ideology, then yes, Apple lost its soul and it still needs to be found again. Turning away from Wall Street ideology is something the whole society needs.

If “lost its soul” refers to not letting a haughty and arrogant “luxury” designer push his extremist design philosophies and luxury products obsessions, then piss off with that.

Apple, and its customers, are better off without that arrogance. His arrogance is the kind that brazenly rejects decades of accumulated knowledge and expertise by people who earned respect for learning things like “human-computer interfacing best practices”. Often such experts are called “arrogant” by those who displaced and marginalize them. It’s projection and insecurity.

The death of expertise and the promotion of antiintellectualism are huge cultural issues right now. It needs to be expanded from Apple, not allowed to flourish.

Putting the print advertising people in charge of iOS 7 UI redesign was utterly grotesque. To this day, I still want someone to do a deep dive into what became of the actual UI experts that used to work at and do research for Apple.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Ive was great - back then ... good to see Apple thriving without him

Apple's form isn't thriving though. New MBPs are bland boxes, new iPhones are the iPhone 4 design. Luckily the aluminium unibody is a classic, and that the iPhone 4 is beautiful, but what next....

 

[now i see it]

A sigh of relief went through the Mac community after hearing of his departure in the past.

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

It's hard to know, looking at it as a customer from outside the business. But I've been a customer for quite some time, and I'd say that during "peak Ive" we saw products become more and more form over function. Yes, this was the driving force behind some incredible design and engineering, but IMHO a step too far. Beautiful though they are, and a pleasure to use, when Apple products start to become more a piece of engineering-art than a functioning tool, then they're missing their primary purpose, surely. With Steve around, the balance seemed just about right. But when he left us, a seemingly unconstrained Ive eventually wasn't good for Apple.

Or they could have kept Ive, and had the strength to constrain him by making him report to Johny Srouji (Senior Vice President, Hardware Technologies), and giving Srouji final say on design decisions. Thus we would still have the wonderful functionality of the new M1 Macs, but with Ive's genius touches of form. Imagine the new 14/16" MBPs with the same non-negotiable size, thickness, ports, etc, but instead of the boring, plain, boxy design, it instead had the subtle Ive tweaks that make it a pure pleasure to look at, that make it pop.

 

[Naraxus]

Ive was a hack. Nothing more. He was more concerned with "pretty" that he was with functionality. He should have been shown the door far sooner but good riddence to bad rubbish.

Now if we can only get rid of Tim Cook and get someone in who actually cares about the heart & soul of Apple and not just a John Scully bean counter who pimps Apple out at every opportunity to score political points

 

[jaw04005]

Apple's form isn't thriving though. New MBPs are bland boxes, new iPhones are the iPhone 4 design. Luckily the aluminium unibody is a classic, and that the iPhone 4 is beautiful, but what next....

iPhone is Apple's current Macintosh. It pays the bills, but Apple Watch is what's next. And it's gotten progressively better with each iteration. Ive's fashion accessory is the future of the company and Cook knows it.

Health is a huge seller. A Watch that can measure your blood sugar? blood pressure? Alert you when you're getting sick? Detect air pollutants (Pollen detected. Did you take your allergy medicine?) You're going to have health insurance companies wanting to subsidize this thing and pass it out with every new enrollee.

It's also going to be a next generation communication device. AirPods, VR Glasses/Contacts, Holograms, Projection devices, etc.

Everything rumored to be coming is going to enhance Watch.

But they're going to have to get their services game together.

 

[cult hero]

Apple lost its "soul" here?

Uhhh... okay then. Apple's soul was being the Versace of computers and selling 10K watches? It lost its soul by making said devices widely accessible and leaning on their abilities as tech rather than fashion? I mean, if you want to overspend on a watch as a fashion accessory... Rolex has been around for over a century.

Cook gets a lot of flack around here and keynotes will never be as good as they were under Jobs, but in general I'm pretty happy with a large portion of Apple's direction in recent years. (Mess with my ability to install custom software on the Mac and that ends immediately.)

Nothing about Ive being described here sounds good at all. He sounds like he reached a point in his career where he was a big believer in his own legend.

 

[Zdigital2015]

Together, they were a mighty triumvirate. Each one a necessary and beneficial piece to a greater whole. Without all three we would not have the the iMac, iPod, the iPhone or the iPad. No matter what your feelings towards any of them, they created these milestones together and for 13 years Apple survived, thrived and went from
success to success. Jobs passing was tragic and we all are left to wonder what else he had up his sleeve, not like he had anything left to prove, but we all waited for that next rabbit to be pulled from his hat. Ive gave Steve’s dreams form and Cook gave them substance. Say what you will about Apple now, there is still some magic left in them bones. At least have some respect for Ive and Cook and lament that it was Steve that was the glue. And always remember, “Nothing Lasts Forever”.

 

[cult hero]

Maps were a mess, but Forstall’s contribution to Next, Apple, Mac OS X, iOS was overwhelmingly positive.

I would argue the same about Ive too. Sometimes guys either get stagnant or when they rise to a certain level of power they aren't tempered.

Or sometimes, they get old and stuck in their ways.

 

[red elma]

Ive and his firm, Lovefrom is still involved in Apple product designs.
What a horrible book title and a cover art...
...perhaps Tripp Mickle himself should have consulted with Ive regarding the design of his cover art.

 

[planteater]

Ive and his firm, Lovefrom is still involved in Apple product designs.
What a horrible book title and a cover art...
...perhaps Tripp Mickle himself should have consulted with Ive regarding the design of his cover art.

That title screams; buy me, I'm controversial. The book version of click bait.

 

[brofkand]

Pretty sure they both tempered each other. Jobs wasn't 100% right everything either. iMac mouse like you mentioned, the Power Mac G4 Cube, iPod HiFi, etc were all failures under Jobs.

I don't think the iPod HiFi failed due to design like the iMac mouse and G4 Cube. It failed because it was too expensive and not better enough than the substantially cheaper competition for people to buy it (which reminds me of another Apple speaker).

The G4 Cube - yes that was absolutely Jobs' hubris. The machine had a fan header and supports for a fan, Jobs just insisted it be silent.

 

[jz0309]

Apple's form isn't thriving though. New MBPs are bland boxes, new iPhones are the iPhone 4 design. Luckily the aluminium unibody is a classic, and that the iPhone 4 is beautiful, but what next....

And they are selling like hot potatoes, maybe function over form is more appreciated???

 

[JDHiro]

Ive had a vision for the future, and I think that is necessary. However, without Jobs that vision wasn't put in check with what made valuable products.

I know this probably the unpopular opinion here -- but only under Tim have we gotten fatter phones with better battery life, fatter laptops with more Pro features, lossless Apple Music.

Tim knows how to cater to this customer base, and I really appreciate that... but I want guys like Ive around to keep pushing the envelope of what is possible.

 

[michaelant]

You guys I heard that Ive was coming back so watch what you say.

 

[JDHiro]

I just want to know... with Ives gone can they do something about the Magic Mouse? Please. PLEASE.

 

[jimbobb24]

Ultimately Ive was wrong about the watch. Once the watch figured out it was a fitness accessory it took off and has been truly great.

Without Ives the company does feel soulless but the bigger batteries are sure nice.

 

[44267547]

What a horrible book title and a cover art...
...perhaps Tripp Mickle himself should have consulted with Ive regarding the design of his cover art.

Yeah, the author has poor art style and chose a very unflattering photo of Ive (Maybe it was intentional). Not to mention, why did he [Tripp] feel the need to post his name above Ives head on the cover? Looks terrible.

 

[JDHiro]

Ultimately Ive was wrong about the watch. Once the watch figured out it was a fitness accessory it took off and has been truly great.

Without Ives the company does feel soulless but the bigger batteries are sure nice.

I still can't figure out wtf they were doing with the Series 0 Edition. People buy a 10k Rolex to wear their whole life -- who's going to wear a 20K Apple Watch that will be outdated in 1 year?

 

[MacGekko]

Tripp Mickle, a technology reporter who recently moved from The Wall Street Journal to The New York Times, is releasing a new book on Apple this week, entitled "After Steve: How Apple Became a Trillion-Dollar Company and Lost Its Soul," and an adapted excerpt of the book was shared today that provides a look at the tensions between Tim Cook and Jony Ive that ultimately led to Ive's departure.

The main anecdotes in the piece focus on the Apple Watch, which Ive wanted to be a fashionable accessory launched with all of the glitz of a runway show complete with a $25 million white tent. Apple's marketing team questioned the expense and the emphasis on fashion, preferring a more traditional introduction focused on the Apple Watch's capabilities.

While Cook ultimately sided with Ive on the fashion-oriented introduction, sources interviewed for the book suggest it was the beginning of the end for Ive's time at Apple.As the Apple Watch was pivoted to become a fitness-oriented device with broad retail distribution, Ive reportedly began to chafe at the "rise of operational leaders" within the company and an increasing emphasis on services rather than hardware, and ultimately he transitioned out of Apple to found his own design firm, Lovefrom.

The piece goes into more detail on Ive's early days at Apple, his relationship with Steve Jobs, and additional anecdotes on Ive's evolution following Jobs' death.Cook and Ive ultimately agreed on a new Chief Design Officer role for Ive that would see him turn over daily management of the design group and shift to a part-time role laser-focused on product development.

Ive's participation and presence waned with his new role, with Ive reportedly often going weeks without weighing in on work going on in the team. The report includes an anecdote from the iPhone X development process when Ive called an important product review meeting that he ended up being nearly three hours late for and ultimately concluded without making any final decisions.

In Ive's absence, Apple continued to pivot more toward services while Cook's eye for operational efficiency evolved the company even further. With Apple Park essentially finished in mid-2019, Ive decided it was time to move on.A review of After Steve by The New York Times praises it for Mickle's thorough efforts to interview over 200 former and current employees and advisors. It takes issue, however, with Mickle's epilogue that places blame on Cook for being "aloof and unknowable, a bad partner for Ive" and largely responsible for Apple's failure to launch another product on the scale of the iPhone. The review argues that the iPhone was a singular opportunity as evidenced by the fact that the Jobs–Ive partnership never yielded anything else on that scale, either before or after.

"After Steve" debuts this Tuesday, May 3 in the U.S. and is available from Amazon and other retailers.

Article Link: 'After Steve' Examines the Tensions That Led to Jony Ive's Departure From Apple

The Iphone was a singular opportunity, what a revelation, it is one of the most successful products in business history, the idea that somehow it was some one off stroke of genius because nothing of its scale was produced before or after is laughable, I gather the Ipod is what to the New York times writer, some sort of a marginal product??

I'm reading the NY Times article right now, the writer concludes that there was no Iphone like product to be made, and he gives various reasons why, self driving cars were too difficult etc., but here is the thing, Apple does not have to invent a product that outdoes the Iphone, maybe kill off the Iphone as Ive has suggested in recent interviews, maybe that is the tension between him and Cook, liberate the Watch from the Iphone, maybe it won't be the Watch but another product that develops from it, once AI and Siri like devices become more powerful, screens will probably be dead, the ultimate point is which CEO would have been more likely to develop that next big wave of innovation, Tim Cook or Steve Jobs?

 

[44267547]

I still can't figure out wtf they were doing with the Series 0 Edition. People buy a 10k Rolex to wear their whole life -- who's going to wear a 20K Apple Watch that will be outdated in 1 year?

It’s not that difficult to understand.

It was a marketing ploy to gain traction for the watch. Apple knew there would be like less than 1% of a demographic that would purchase a ~$10,000– $17,000 18 karat gold Apple Watch. But it gained media attention that Apple was selling a ‘high end’ smart watch with its debut.

Oh, there’s a few people on this very forum who purchased the Apple Watch Edition and posted in the Apple Watch forum.

 

[MallardDuck]

Without Steve, they completely lost the balance between design and function. Ive, without anyone connected to the real world, focused on form and fashion (expressed only as portless and thin) to the exclusion of everything else. Only since his departure have we again seen usable, functional products that have competitive performance.

 

[themachugger]

People who think Jobs tempered Ive obviously never tried to use the original iMac's mouse.

Truth. At one company (since most of the artists absolutely refused to use the round mouse) we collected all of them and made a hanging mobile with them strung at various lengths. They were at least somewhat pretty to look at rotating slowly in the air. ?

 

[JimmyHook]

Ive gave us thin MacBooks without HDMI and other useful ports. He was great with Steve, but not so great without him. “Lost it’s soul” is a completely wrong take, and assumes Apple should’ve stuck with Ive’s direction, which was terrible for users

 

[Edsel]

Corporate evolution. This happens in every large and growing company. Sometimes change works and sometimes it doesn't. Apple has an entirely different "soul" than it did 20 years ago and its success will eventually be surpassed by another young and aggressive startup.