Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

'After Steve' Examines the Tensions That Led to Jony Ive's Departure From Apple

I often wonder if Ives is the reason why iPad doesn't have native calculator and weather apps. I am so sick and tired of third-party apps that flash the obnoxious advertisement banners every five seconds while I use the calculator or consult the weather reports. And pay arms and legs to eliminate the banners only to end up paying for the subscription to keep the apps advertisement-free.

To this day, I still don't understand why Apple couldn't do it for iPad. Time is now for the native apps for iPad!

By the way, I am glad that Ives left Apple because it is very obvious that Ives cares more about the designs and forms at expense of user experience (better keyboard, more port options, etc.). I have 2019 MacBook Pro, and it takes a while for me to get used to all USB-C ports and dynamic function keys (Touch Bar) as well as keyboard with much shorter travel (I love the "ancient" keyboards that came with 17" MacBook Pro and 27" iMac—both Mid-2010).
 
In my opinion Apple owes pretty much all of its modern success to Ive's industrial design. They are treading water without him but I already see a decline. Or at least a shift away from his core ethos. What with three beer cans grafted onto the back of iPhone 13 Pro and the now rumoured wonky pill & hole display on iPhone 14 Pro. For better or worse I doubt either of these things would have happened if Ive would have had anything to say about it.

I fully expect some folk to disagree, and that's fine, but personally I don't think Apple would have enjoyed so much success without Ive's design influence. For now they're riding on his coat-tails but it remains to be seen how long they can hang on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StoneJack, Luis Glez, xObeyThePanda and 1 other person
bingeciren said:
I remember Ive introducing the first Unibody Macbook, fully user upgradable, with a latched door at the back allowing easy access to user replaceable battery and HDD. Steve was alive at that time.

Then over the years, Macs became more and more impossible for being user serviceable and upgradeable. Seems to me Ive was responsible for form over function, glued shut user unfriendly, port deficient Macs after Steve.

And whoever came up with the idea of Apple Watch as a luxury item should have at least designed the internals to be upgradeable.
Click to expand...
You’re totally off track: Jobs wants the most closed and sealed products possible, as well as management and shareholders, for a return in terms of poor customer opportunities, but you and others blame Ive.

At Ive nothing changed to have more ports or rather an upgradeable hw, with easy access, is not his problem.

This concept is totally delusional, people who cannot hold a pencil that cares about understanding what and how many are the limits of the design team.
 
  • Like
  • Disagree
Reactions: KPOM and bingeciren
Bodhitree said:
I appreciate Jony Ive’s input over the years, he was a key part of an awesome team. And I think it is noticeable that the Mac Studio is what it is, a little aluminium box with a lot of ports, it shows a distinct lack of design inspiration.
Click to expand...
Because the Mac Mini was such a marvel… at least the studio has front facing ports.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlphaCentauri
zahuh said:
“The art challenges the technology, and the technology inspires the art.” - John Lassiter

Without Ive, there is no art CHALLENGING the tech. He/SJ pushed people to do the impossible.

I think we can all admit things move a lot slower under Cook. Take it for what it is.
Click to expand...
So what was the Mac situation before Apple went with the M1 under Cook leadership ? people have short memories and apparently , Ive and Steve can do no wrong , but I clearly remember the state of the Mac throughout the years , the thrash can fiasco , the overheating computers , the long duration between updates , you can put some blame on Intel but you can surely blame Apple (Steve/Ive) , the Mac had rough years competing vs the PC world , I love the new Apple with colors and thicker computers when warranted , I love that they are a trillion dollar company that can build their own chips across the board (and putting a ton of resources there) , competing head on vs the PC world , when Tim Cook retires Apple will miss him dearly.

The watch is a great example on why fashion over function didnt work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: StoneJack
chucker23n1 said:
Sorry, but if you’re “Chief Design Officer”, the design buck stops with you. That’s the whole point. And engineers aren’t magicians. The mid-2010s’ MacBook Pros were simply too thermally constrained, and Apple is lucky they didn’t get more lawsuits for their poor design choices. Today’s Apple is more pragmatic. The Pro doesn’t need to be an Air.
Click to expand...
Dreams.

If the engineering team is incapable and has an interest in playing against me (and has always done so) it does a poor job and makes the faults of not having been able to decide for the best fall on my choices. Ive and the design team of the i7, i9 and the rest of Intel junk didn’t care, it’s not the design team that deliberates the specs, it’s the engineering team. The design team must package a product that is compatible with what is deliberated by the engineering team and above all there are several product reviews and tests that ascertain its feasibility, so at a minimum the responsibility is shared with the other teams and with the managers. “It’s Ive’s fault, period.” Ridiculous.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AbhiAchShan
Xand&Roby said:
Dreams.

If the engineering team is incapable and has an interest in playing against me (and has always done so) it does a poor job and makes the faults of not having been able to decide for the best fall on my choices. Ive and the design team of the i7, i9 and the rest of Intel junk didn’t care, it’s not the design team that deliberates the specs, it’s the engineering team. The design team must package a product that is compatible with what is deliberated by the engineering team and above all there are several product reviews and tests that ascertain its feasibility, so at a minimum the responsibility is shared with the other teams and with the managers. “It’s Ive’s fault, period.” Ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I don't even know what you're talking about. Did you want the engineers to put a weaker CPU and GPU in there? You think that would've been a good choice?
 
Xand&Roby said:
You’re totally off track: Jobs wants the most closed and sealed products possible, as well as management and shareholders, for a return in terms of poor customer opportunities, but you and others blame Ive.

At Ive nothing changed to have more ports or rather an upgradeable hw, with easy access, is not his problem.

This concept is totally delusional, people who cannot hold a pencil that cares about understanding what and how many are the limits of the design team.
Click to expand...
Jobs was very proud of the Cube, wasn’t he? Even though it ultimately flopped. He wanted that thing to be user accessible. Ive ultimately demonstrated with the 2016 MBP that he didn’t care about user upgradeability or serviceability. If only one key of his beloved Butterfly Keyboard broke the entire thing had to be replaced. He didn’t even care if the IO was sufficient or serviceable. Port broken? New top case.
Headphone jack broken? New top case.
I’ve had my top case replaced twice just because the jack was acting up.
He indeed was a genius designer and we should all be grateful for his work at Apple, but he crossed a line at some point and that’s when he had to go.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: freedomlinux, bingeciren, StoneJack and 1 other person
I never thought I’d say I miss him but looking at some of the monstrosities apple have produced recently like the iMac without a logo and the abysmal mac studio , apple design which the company was always famous for , has really gone downhill dramatically

They’ve replaced creatives with accountants
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️
Xand&Roby said:
Dreams.

If the engineering team is incapable and has an interest in playing against me (and has always done so) it does a poor job and makes the faults of not having been able to decide for the best fall on my choices. Ive and the design team of the i7, i9 and the rest of Intel junk didn’t care, it’s not the design team that deliberates the specs, it’s the engineering team. The design team must package a product that is compatible with what is deliberated by the engineering team and above all there are several product reviews and tests that ascertain its feasibility, so at a minimum the responsibility is shared with the other teams and with the managers. “It’s Ive’s fault, period.” Ridiculous.
Click to expand...
… it’s common knowledge that the 2016 MBP generation had a thermal envelope and case designed for chips more efficient and cooler than what Intel delivered. Which shows that they didn’t work as close together as they should have or how you indicate. The design stood before the chips got delivered.
Only with the M1 did the 13 inch MBP’s (and MacBook Air’s) design makes sense, 5 years too late.
Also, we are talking about Apple here. The company that insisted on using 5K panels on their iMacs despite the display controllers of the ships they sourced from Intel not being capable of delivering their required performance. So what did Apple do? Develop their own display controller.
Apple knows enough about inner and outer design from their iPhone and iPad lines, you might have heard about them, that they surely know enough about how to design a Mac alongside the chips they use for them.
Intel failed them and Ive failed us as consumers. He is to blame for the lacklustre iPhone X and the form over function mess that the 2016 gen MacBooks were (and still are to all that use them).
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️ and javisan
George Dawes said:
I never thought I’d say I miss him but looking at some of the monstrosities apple have produced recently like the iMac without a logo and the abysmal mac studio , apple design which the company was always famous for , has really gone downhill dramatically

They’ve replaced creatives with accountants
Click to expand...
You do realise that the Mac Studio isn’t a Mac Mini though, right? And that it’s this chunky because of cooling?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️
What's with all the negativity? If you push the envelope you'll not always be right. Iterating on existing designs is so much easier than creating a new product category. Apple has become a bandwaggon-jumping copycat.
Apple Music is a Spotify knockoff. Apple TV is a Netflix knockoff. iCloud is a Dropbox knockoff. Their incompetence in the cloud space is creatively being pivoted into a love of privacy.

I'd much rather see Apple fail 5 times and then create something truly innovative than this disgusting spreadsheet-auto-asphyxiation
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: javisan and George Dawes
zahuh said:
“The art challenges the technology, and the technology inspires the art.” - John Lassiter

Without Ive, there is no art CHALLENGING the tech. He/SJ pushed people to do the impossible.

I think we can all admit things move a lot slower under Cook. Take it for what it is.
Click to expand...
You may be right, but I think your analysis ignores the fact that Apple is vastly larger than it was under Jobs. Bigger things change slower, it's simply an inevitable fact regardless of who is in charge.
 
I often wonder what Apple would be like if Jobs were alive. Jobs and Ive were a duo that comes once in a century. Ive couldn't work at apple without Jobs. Without Job's pragmatism, Ive couldn't be balanced. Apple is a fine company today, but I can't help to think that they would be much different if jobs were around.
 
iPad mini 6 is the most Jony Ive device Apple released recently. That tells us hardware design team at Apple isn't doing so well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: George Dawes
lucianmarin said:
iPad mini 6 is the most Jony Ive device Apple released recently. That tells us hardware design team at Apple isn't doing so well.
Click to expand...
“The hardware design team isn’t doing so well”…….all because of one iPad Mini released under Ive?

That’s a bit ridiculous. You yourself have no idea what his contributions were to the Mini 6. Apples hardware is generally a strong point, it’s the software that needs various revamping.
 
mikethebigo said:
IMO Ive didn’t work without Steve. Steve was the practical balance to some of Ive’s more extravagant tendencies. I hated the original Apple Watch launch - it felt so pompous and like Apple wanted to be some sort of tech Burberry. That was the last thing I wanted.

Rebranding the Apple Watch to a fitness accessory saved the entire product line.
Click to expand...
I still remember the Apple Watch Launch in Berlin - which happened in a high-end fashion store (not the Apple Store). Was quite a culture clash between the model-like disapproving and bored Eastern European sales ladies and the inappropriately dressed nerds that stood in line to get the watches (some even daring to ask technical questions).
 
xObeyThePanda said:
I often wonder what Apple would be like if Jobs were alive. Jobs and Ive were a duo that comes once in a century. Ive couldn't work at apple without Jobs. Without Job's pragmatism, Ive couldn't be balanced. Apple is a fine company today, but I can't help to think that they would be much different if jobs were around.
Click to expand...
If Jobs were still around, Apple would probably be a much smaller company/start-up as Jobs would've been spending all Apple's money to go thermo-nuclear on Android.
 
I'd much prefer the trashcan design for the Mac Studio. The exposed internal PSU of the Mac Studio isn't Apple quality..

I don't care about the aesthetics of a pro computer that much. It's meant to sit in a corner silently crunching numbers.
 
Yet we're still stuck with the rainbow pallet, overly flat gradient mess, thank god it was toned down after his departure but iOS is overdue for a redesign. I still remember my disappointment moving from iOS 6 (my favourite iOS to date) to the iOS 7 mess, have gotten used to it after almost 10 years but this does not mean that it's good design, it's really time to move on
 
  • Like
Reactions: Feyl
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back