'After Steve' Examines the Tensions That Led to Jony Ive's Departure From Apple

[inkswamp]

IMO Ive didn’t work without Steve. Steve was the practical balance to some of Ive’s more extravagant tendencies. I hated the original Apple Watch launch - it felt so pompous and like Apple wanted to be some sort of tech Burberry. That was the last thing I wanted.

Rebranding the Apple Watch to a fitness accessory saved the entire product line.

AMEN! Thank you for saying that. I was profoundly embarrassed for the way Apple launched the Watch. They had endured so much accusation prior to being snooty and self-important already and here they were, trying to shoehorn a product into some pretentious, haute couture nonsense. I'm genuinely shocked to hear it was Johnny Ive who pushed for that. The guy is a genius designer, but he should steer way clear of marketing. That whole effort was cringey and weird.

 

[sudo-sandwich]

Is this what changed in Apple to get them to reverse all the bad and arrogant decisions made about the MBP (touch bar etc)?

 

[Jeven Stobs]

What bs. Apple is better now than ever.

Definitely not better than ever, but better again after years of stagnation.

 

[StoneJack]

Ive is an iconic designer. His heritage at Apple includes iMacs of all generations, iWatch, Macbooks Air and Pro, iPhone and generally all design decisions Apple is praised for. Therefore it is important to understand how he has been influential in building Apple aesthetics as we know. Yes, as a manager and a human he had his share of mistakes. Well, everyone makes mistakes and even Steve himself made huge mistakes, so let's not too concentrate on negatives. Instead, I would like to see a discussion of how can Apple evolve the industrial design, Ive built foundations of, and how also Apple can keep the basic principles of the design. While there are misses like excessive thinness, or few ports, ultimately even colors of Apple are still those, defined by Ive. These basic principles of Ive's design are revered and copied by all tech world. So keeping and developing those traditions are very important, otherwise we will see beige plastic desktop computers, too bulky notebooks a-la Alienware or more crappy design decisions.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

I think Apple should again focus more on software. The hardware is almost perfect and on a great track. iWork, iLife, Aperture

 

[swingerofbirch]

I was trying to think of a short way to summarize my thoughts.

I think it's what I've said before: No one actually ever replaced Steve Jobs' role at Apple.

 

[chineseguy38]

Tim Cook only cares about money. Steve Jobs cared about renovation.

 

[skitidetdu]

It is a different company, everybody knew Apple would be different without Jobs. But I don’t get the negative comments around these people especially since I can imagine very few of you actually ever meet any of them in real life.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Their design team also seems to be clueless. They're just bringing back old designs (flat sides) to all of their products because there is no one like Ive there to set new design trends.

It’s a rectangle slab of metal and glass, there’s only so many forms it can take.
Even under Steve and Ive it was alternating between more rounded and more square.
Original iPhone: rounded corners, flat-ish aluminum back.
3G: very rounded iPhone, both back and sides.
iPhone 4: flat sides, flat glass back.
iPhone 5: flat sides, aluminum and glass back.
iPhone 6: rounded sides, aluminum back.
Etc etc etc, again only so many ways you can take it

 

[SebCohen]

Some say salt brings out the flavour in food. Some say pepper is in another league and clearly superior to salt and gives food a more natural flavour. I say they work best together.

I think even if both Steve and Jony were and are a genius, they were and are also both lunatic imbeciles when it comes to some of their choices. The sum is still quite magic and I’ll take it. But every artist has his prime and more often than not, once they get famous for a certain style, they get stuck in a rut.

I think Jony got stuck before Steve died and afterwards he didn’t have that hardass motivator that he needed to continue. He did good by stepping down and it will protect his legacy far more than had he continued. It was getting a little frail in the end.

Sure. Apple lost two visionaries in one go. But now we have stuff that functions so much better, rather than just look better. After all, Apple makes products that is used to “produce”, not just pieces.

Perhaps Apple will get a Steve & Jony again, but it won’t be while Tim is there. And, they might not need it.

What I don’t need, is another book about all this.

 

[Whathappened]

Plan and simple.. Cook isn't a visionary.. and Jobs was. If you don't have driving force (or respect) for a person that can see on the level you do or create.. you have to move on.

Plain and simple.. Jobs failed at most of his projects, had a few hits and one big hit (iPhone) which came at a time when the Chinese developed new miniature hardware that Apple put together with good software.
Oh yes, there was another hit of Jobs: he knew that Cook was the man to bring Apple to new heights and cook delivered every year since.

 

[Jeven Stobs]

Their design team also seems to be clueless. They're just bringing back old designs (flat sides) to all of their products because there is no one like Ive there to set new design trends.

If by clueless you mean successful you’re correct.
Also, what are you talking about? There was little new stuff with previous MacBooks which were pretty similar to pre 2016 devices, except their ports.
The iPhone X, which Ive obviously didn’t have interest in but ultimately made the decisions for, was also nothing more than an iPhone 7 with a massive screen. The rest of the design is pretty similar. The camera was rotated from the plus model and the frame made of steel, glass in the back for wireless charging and boom, a new generation of iPhone. Same button design and edges from the then 3 year old iPhone 6, which actually was a hybrid of the iPod touch and iPhone 5c… just look at those designs.
And let’s not talk about the iPhone 8, which too was dubbed as a new generation of iPhone.
Ive had a good run prior to the iPhone 6, but it’s a good thing he’s gone. He made very apparent that for him the look and feel of a product was more important than its usability. His arrogance and ignorance ultimately culminated in the 2016 MBPs. And we all know how well those work/ed.
A new design for the sake of a new design isn’t great. If you want that get a Galaxy. The new designs aren’t great because they seem old, but because they are proven to be great and people appreciate designs that work, are clean and compromise little for form over function.
New Apple stuff is as sexy as can be, but that is just an opinion.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

From the recent headlines, I was under the impression the Samsung Galaxy Flip and Fold devices were selling in great numbers, is that wrong?

Depends what you mean by great numbers.
Samsung sold something like 272 million phones in 2021.
Somewhere between 9 million and 11 million of those, so between three and 4%, were foldables.
So sure, they’re selling… fine.
But are they catching on? Are they becoming the next fbig thing? No.
And 2021 was there third year selling foldables. Just for reference, Apple sold 13 million iPhones in 2008, and 25 million iPhones in 2009, the first two full years of selling phones.
So again, I wouldn’t say that foldables are gripping the Publix attention like the original iPhone did

 

[soupfm]

Stay hungry, stay soulless.

 

[Jeven Stobs]

Cook needs to go too. I want a CEO that will not create spy networks like the Bluetooth mesh network and not create 'always spying, even if turned off' iPhones. I dropped the iPhone in favor of a privacy phone since I go to protests and don't want to carry a faraday bag.

Elaborate on the „always spying“ part. You also seem to not know that everyday life and protests are very different things. If you change your clothes you should change your gear, iPhones are every day consumer make-my-life-less-miserable pocket computers, not riot gear.
I get your point, I surely do and I too would have my concerns taking my iPhone to a noteworthy protest (outside my country), but that’s because the iPhone isn’t made for that.
That said, what phone do you use?

 

[Pakaku]

Ah, a book for Macrumors regulars

 

[Marx55]

Good riddance, Jony Ive… Function should be first, then form; not the other way… For instance, with frontal ports on Mac.

 

[Bodhitree]

I appreciate Jony Ive’s input over the years, he was a key part of an awesome team. And I think it is noticeable that the Mac Studio is what it is, a little aluminium box with a lot of ports, it shows a distinct lack of design inspiration.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Elaborate on the „always spying“ part. You also seem to not know that everyday life and protests are very different things. If you change your clothes you should change your gear, iPhones are every day consumer make-my-life-less-miserable pocket computers, not riot gear.
I get your point, I surely do and I too would have my concerns taking my iPhone to a noteworthy protest (outside my country), but that’s because the iPhone isn’t made for that.
That said, what phone do you use?

that poster is always going on about Apple spying on people using a Bluetooth mesh network or something… but refuses to elaborate on it every time though.

 

[bingeciren]

I remember Ive introducing the first Unibody Macbook, fully user upgradable, with a latched door at the back allowing easy access to user replaceable battery and HDD. Steve was alive at that time.

Then over the years, Macs became more and more impossible for being user serviceable and upgradeable. Seems to me Ive was responsible for form over function, glued shut user unfriendly, port deficient Macs after Steve.

And whoever came up with the idea of Apple Watch as a luxury item should have at least designed the internals to be upgradeable.

 

[Jeven Stobs]

that poster is always going on about Apple spying on people using a Bluetooth mesh network or something… but refuses to elaborate on it every time though.

Thank you for telling me that . I was hoping for him to make his point but oh well, guess that won’t happen.
Granted, Apples Find My network does give people ground to build conspiracy theories on, but my stance on any CT concerning Apple is
They market themselves as privacy focused and respecting, they are the most valuable company on the planet, being monitored every second by hundreds of people, firms and institutions. They can’t afford to be caught lying, spying or slacking. So they won’t even consider (most of) that. Sure they slack with software and hardware at times, but once they are caught actually spying on their users it’s curtains.
Hundreds of people and firms would like to see the Apple spoil, so should they actually do something like spying on their users we’d hear about that from those people, not a rando in an online forum…

 

[Xand&Roby]

IMO Ive didn’t work without Steve. Steve was the practical balance to some of Ive’s more extravagant tendencies. I hated the original Apple Watch launch - it felt so pompous and like Apple wanted to be some sort of tech Burberry. That was the last thing I wanted.

Rebranding the Apple Watch to a fitness accessory saved the entire product line.

I think your comment and popularity represent the problem of Apple and a substantial part of its customers: targeting Ive as the sole proponent of errors.

I remember someone else coming from Burberry. And I remember that in the product design phases it is the engineers who are tasked with finding solutions to make obsolete hw work (Intel and the 2016 MacBook Pro problem). But according to many, the faults always fall on Ive, because he is a designer and was in charge of the design team. And this struggle that develops in the heads of some is leading Apple to have an increasingly low hardware and software quality thanks to the fact that you others, bloated by the departure of the historic design team, cannot see the problems and buy junk without a doubt, because finally it is junk not signed by Ive.

 

[bingeciren]

Maps were a mess, but Forstall’s contribution to Next, Apple, Mac OS X, iOS was overwhelmingly positive.

Maps is still a mess. Satellite images are 2+ years old.

 

[Judo]

Apple wouldn’t be where it is today without Ive. But his role in Apple, I feel his best days were already done, and Apple having their product line so tightly in line with Ives vision was doing more harm than good, in a lot of cases. I think Ive moving away from Apple was good for both Apple and Ive.

 

[chucker23n1]

IMO Ive didn’t work without Steve.

I think there’s truth to that. He needed an editor.

And whoever came up with the idea of Apple Watch as a luxury item should have at least designed the internals to be upgradeable.

Yep. It should’ve been obvious to anyone who internally used it that the S0 was underpowered and needed an upgrade. You could use it for workouts, but barely. Launching apps was prohibitively slow.

Now, couple that with a $10,000 and beyond price point, and it doesn’t make sense. Why didn’t they do a $300/yr subscription where the internals get a refresh each time?

I think your comment and popularity represent the problem of Apple and a substantial part of its customers: targeting Ive as the sole proponent of errors.

I remember someone else coming from Burberry. And I remember that in the product design phases it is the engineers who are tasked with finding solutions to make obsolete hw work (Intel and the 2016 MacBook Pro problem). But according to many, the faults always fall on Ive, because he is a designer and was in charge of the design team. And this struggle that develops in the heads of some is leading Apple to have an increasingly low hardware and software quality thanks to the fact that you others, bloated by the departure of the historic design team, cannot see the problems and buy junk without a doubt, because finally it is junk not signed by Ive.

Sorry, but if you’re “Chief Design Officer”, the design buck stops with you. That’s the whole point. And engineers aren’t magicians. The mid-2010s’ MacBook Pros were simply too thermally constrained, and Apple is lucky they didn’t get more lawsuits for their poor design choices. Today’s Apple is more pragmatic. The Pro doesn’t need to be an Air.