Against your advice

Plett

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 16, 2016
188
137
I decided to upgrade my 2015 MBP and ordered a 2018 (spec below). I am aware of the potential hazards based on the feedback in the forums. I have come to the conclusion that this is the place to voice concerns over issues, not to sing praises. And lord I hope I am right:(!

Of course after placing my order yesterday I began more seriously looking at the forum, and frankly hoping to confirm my bias that the issues are overblown. I haven't had much luck to that end.

Anyway I will be putting it through its paces and report back. I did by the AppleCare + product, and I don't normally do that. Clearly I would prefer to never use it.

I did the trade in program, I don't think it was a good deal, buttt I don't have to mess with selling it.

Wish me luck!!!

MBP 13.3 SG/2.7GHZ QC/16GB/1TB-USA
 

Ploki

macrumors 68040
Jan 21, 2008
3,993
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What kind of battery life do you get?
No clue, I didn't test it; good enough so I don't care about it i guess.

I was running a light Logic Pro X project (2 live inputs + backing track) for 1h30m yesterday and battery dropped to 70% and it was running passively for the most of it (0rpm fans)
 
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leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,179
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Of course after placing my order yesterday I began more seriously looking at the forum, and frankly hoping to confirm my bias that the issues are overblown. I haven't had much luck to that end.
The issues are overblown. Yes, a certain percentage of those machines (somewhere between 5 and 10%) will experience have problems in the first year. Which is the expected amount within the premium laptop segment. Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Plett

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 16, 2016
188
137
The issues are overblown. Yes, a certain percentage of those machines (somewhere between 5 and 10%) will experience have problems in the first year. Which is the expected amount within the premium laptop segment. Nothing more, nothing less.
Thanks for that.
[doublepost=1548252594][/doublepost]Go
Well, I think the i7 is a waste of money, but other than that, my i5/16/512-INT has been behaving wonderfully.
Good to hear thank you. You are probably right about the processor but here we are.
 
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maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
64,128
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Boston
confirm my bias that the issues are overblown.
Are they?

Lets talk through the issues.
Butterfly keyboard. Failure rates in the 2016 and 2017 models were significant enough that Apple was compelled to institute a repair program, and update the keyboard with a silicone cover. That cover may not be working fully because we do see members here complaining about the keyboard on their 2018 MBPs and MacBook Airs are failing. That tells me, that the keyboard is flawed by design, not due to a manufacturing defect that might affect some people.

T2 crashing, like the butterfly keyboard, I've seen people mention that the MBA, and Mini are having stability issues related to the T2. I was one of the fortunate ones who didn't run into any of the issues, but I also did not upgrade to Mojave nor did you put the computer to sleep (seems sleep may be one of the causes).

coil whine and static speakers, I can't speak personally about these as my MBP did not have them, but many people do, so I raise them here only to say when there's smoke there's fire

Vega GPU screen flicker Some members are complaining about the new Vega GPU causing screen flicker - some report that it can be (or has) been fixed via software.

Throttling/cooling The thin design of the MBP has inhibited cooling to the point that many people seem who own the 2.2 base machine enjoy a cooler and faster running MBP. There's many benchmarks that seem to indicate that the 2.2 is running faster then the i9 and/or if the i9 is faster, its not by much, even though the price is much higher. This isn't too surprising and Dell is dealing with the same issue, the hot running i9 cannot be cooled adaquetly without a redesigned thermal solution. Apple nor dell did that and these CPUs/GPUs run too hot

Any one one of these issues would raise a red flag, yet there seems to be an over abundance of problems inherent in the MBP, and since Apple sells these as premium laptops, I personally question whether spending almost 3k on a premium laptop that has so many listed problems. True not everyone are having these issues, nonetheless I think its worth noting. This is just my opinion but I'd rather not deal with the potential failure of the keyboard or the stability problems of the T2
 

SDColorado

Contributor
Nov 6, 2011
4,274
4,221
Highlands Ranch, CO
Are they?

Lets talk through the issues.
Butterfly keyboard. Failure rates in the 2016 and 2017 models were significant enough that Apple was compelled to institute a repair program, and update the keyboard with a silicone cover. That cover may not be working fully because we do see members here complaining about the keyboard on their 2018 MBPs and MacBook Airs are failing. That tells me, that the keyboard is flawed by design, not due to a manufacturing defect that might affect some people.

T2 crashing, like the butterfly keyboard, I've seen people mention that the MBA, and Mini are having stability issues related to the T2. I was one of the fortunate ones who didn't run into any of the issues, but I also did not upgrade to Mojave nor did you put the computer to sleep (seems sleep may be one of the causes).

coil whine and static speakers, I can't speak personally about these as my MBP did not have them, but many people do, so I raise them here only to say when there's smoke there's fire

Vega GPU screen flicker Some members are complaining about the new Vega GPU causing screen flicker - some report that it can be (or has) been fixed via software.

Throttling/cooling The thin design of the MBP has inhibited cooling to the point that many people seem who own the 2.2 base machine enjoy a cooler and faster running MBP. There's many benchmarks that seem to indicate that the 2.2 is running faster then the i9 and/or if the i9 is faster, its not by much, even though the price is much higher. This isn't too surprising and Dell is dealing with the same issue, the hot running i9 cannot be cooled adaquetly without a redesigned thermal solution. Apple nor dell did that and these CPUs/GPUs run too hot

Any one one of these issues would raise a red flag, yet there seems to be an over abundance of problems inherent in the MBP, and since Apple sells these as premium laptops, I personally question whether spending almost 3k on a premium laptop that has so many listed problems. True not everyone are having these issues, nonetheless I think its worth noting. This is just my opinion but I'd rather not deal with the potential failure of the keyboard or the stability problems of the T2
Also, some reports of blue splotches appearing on the display in a couple of threads, and stain-gate is still a thing.
 
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CB98

macrumors 6502
Jun 6, 2018
278
105
Are they?

Lets talk through the issues.
Butterfly keyboard. Failure rates in the 2016 and 2017 models were significant enough that Apple was compelled to institute a repair program, and update the keyboard with a silicone cover. That cover may not be working fully because we do see members here complaining about the keyboard on their 2018 MBPs and MacBook Airs are failing. That tells me, that the keyboard is flawed by design, not due to a manufacturing defect that might affect some people.

T2 crashing, like the butterfly keyboard, I've seen people mention that the MBA, and Mini are having stability issues related to the T2. I was one of the fortunate ones who didn't run into any of the issues, but I also did not upgrade to Mojave nor did you put the computer to sleep (seems sleep may be one of the causes).

coil whine and static speakers, I can't speak personally about these as my MBP did not have them, but many people do, so I raise them here only to say when there's smoke there's fire

Vega GPU screen flicker Some members are complaining about the new Vega GPU causing screen flicker - some report that it can be (or has) been fixed via software.

Throttling/cooling The thin design of the MBP has inhibited cooling to the point that many people seem who own the 2.2 base machine enjoy a cooler and faster running MBP. There's many benchmarks that seem to indicate that the 2.2 is running faster then the i9 and/or if the i9 is faster, its not by much, even though the price is much higher. This isn't too surprising and Dell is dealing with the same issue, the hot running i9 cannot be cooled adaquetly without a redesigned thermal solution. Apple nor dell did that and these CPUs/GPUs run too hot

Any one one of these issues would raise a red flag, yet there seems to be an over abundance of problems inherent in the MBP, and since Apple sells these as premium laptops, I personally question whether spending almost 3k on a premium laptop that has so many listed problems. True not everyone are having these issues, nonetheless I think its worth noting. This is just my opinion but I'd rather not deal with the potential failure of the keyboard or the stability problems of the T2
Slightly off topic but I saw in an earlier post that you own a 2.2/555X/16gb model - how do you find the performance/battery life etc.?
 

Mackinjosh

Suspended
Aug 21, 2014
1,186
1,672
Are they?

Lets talk through the issues.
Butterfly keyboard. Failure rates in the 2016 and 2017 models were significant enough that Apple was compelled to institute a repair program, and update the keyboard with a silicone cover. That cover may not be working fully because we do see members here complaining about the keyboard on their 2018 MBPs and MacBook Airs are failing. That tells me, that the keyboard is flawed by design, not due to a manufacturing defect that might affect some people.

T2 crashing, like the butterfly keyboard, I've seen people mention that the MBA, and Mini are having stability issues related to the T2. I was one of the fortunate ones who didn't run into any of the issues, but I also did not upgrade to Mojave nor did you put the computer to sleep (seems sleep may be one of the causes).

coil whine and static speakers, I can't speak personally about these as my MBP did not have them, but many people do, so I raise them here only to say when there's smoke there's fire

Vega GPU screen flicker Some members are complaining about the new Vega GPU causing screen flicker - some report that it can be (or has) been fixed via software.

Throttling/cooling The thin design of the MBP has inhibited cooling to the point that many people seem who own the 2.2 base machine enjoy a cooler and faster running MBP. There's many benchmarks that seem to indicate that the 2.2 is running faster then the i9 and/or if the i9 is faster, its not by much, even though the price is much higher. This isn't too surprising and Dell is dealing with the same issue, the hot running i9 cannot be cooled adaquetly without a redesigned thermal solution. Apple nor dell did that and these CPUs/GPUs run too hot

Any one one of these issues would raise a red flag, yet there seems to be an over abundance of problems inherent in the MBP, and since Apple sells these as premium laptops, I personally question whether spending almost 3k on a premium laptop that has so many listed problems. True not everyone are having these issues, nonetheless I think its worth noting. This is just my opinion but I'd rather not deal with the potential failure of the keyboard or the stability problems of the T2
Also the flex cable issue that your site reported on yesterday.
 
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poorcody

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2013
788
603
Of course after placing my order yesterday I began more seriously looking at the forum, and frankly hoping to confirm my bias that the issues are overblown. I haven't had much luck to that end.
[...]
Wish me luck!!!
Despite the real issues (and loud voices), the statistics suggest you are still buying one of the most reliable laptops being made. So try not to worry and enjoy. Best of luck!
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 68040
Aug 19, 2017
3,700
4,025
Also, some reports of blue splotches appearing on the display in a couple of threads, and stain-gate is still a thing.
Not to mention flexgate.

OP - I guess the best thing you can do is just use it and hopefully none of the issues will manifest with your machine. It’s not a risk you should have to take in this pricing segment (or indeed any segment!) but even worse is spending this much money and having to creep around your machine for fear of something going wrong... just use it as normal and if something does go wrong, chalk it up to experience!
 

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
64,128
30,719
Boston
Slightly off topic but I saw in an earlier post that you own a 2.2/555X/16gb model - how do you find the performance/battery life etc.?
battery life was great, and there was more then enough cpu cycles for my needs (lightroom/ps/office apps)
 

willentrekin

macrumors regular
Jun 12, 2013
233
164
US
I have come to the conclusion that this is the place to voice concerns over issues, not to sing praises.
I think you'll find that in most instances. It's like when you read the horror stories of product or customer service on social media, and it's a matter of newsworthiness. Kind of like the idea that dog bites man is not a story, but man bites dog is.

Apple products that work aren't a story, because they're supposed to and the vast majority of the time do. When they don't (or bend, or whatever), you get a (loud) vocal minority, particularly in a forum like this, because the users are so knowledgeable and expect perfection.

Enjoy your new laptop!
 

sunapple

macrumors 68000
Jul 16, 2013
1,884
2,783
The Netherlands
Are they?

Lets talk through the issues.
Butterfly keyboard. Failure rates in the 2016 and 2017 models were significant enough that Apple was compelled to institute a repair program, and update the keyboard with a silicone cover. That cover may not be working fully because we do see members here complaining about the keyboard on their 2018 MBPs and MacBook Airs are failing. That tells me, that the keyboard is flawed by design, not due to a manufacturing defect that might affect some people.

T2 crashing, like the butterfly keyboard, I've seen people mention that the MBA, and Mini are having stability issues related to the T2. I was one of the fortunate ones who didn't run into any of the issues, but I also did not upgrade to Mojave nor did you put the computer to sleep (seems sleep may be one of the causes).

coil whine and static speakers, I can't speak personally about these as my MBP did not have them, but many people do, so I raise them here only to say when there's smoke there's fire

Vega GPU screen flicker Some members are complaining about the new Vega GPU causing screen flicker - some report that it can be (or has) been fixed via software.

Throttling/cooling The thin design of the MBP has inhibited cooling to the point that many people seem who own the 2.2 base machine enjoy a cooler and faster running MBP. There's many benchmarks that seem to indicate that the 2.2 is running faster then the i9 and/or if the i9 is faster, its not by much, even though the price is much higher. This isn't too surprising and Dell is dealing with the same issue, the hot running i9 cannot be cooled adaquetly without a redesigned thermal solution. Apple nor dell did that and these CPUs/GPUs run too hot

Any one one of these issues would raise a red flag, yet there seems to be an over abundance of problems inherent in the MBP, and since Apple sells these as premium laptops, I personally question whether spending almost 3k on a premium laptop that has so many listed problems. True not everyone are having these issues, nonetheless I think its worth noting. This is just my opinion but I'd rather not deal with the potential failure of the keyboard or the stability problems of the T2
Wouldn't the T2 problems be fixable via software?

Vega and throttling aren't that much of an issue with his 13" I suppose.

I'm overall not so sure if the sentence "when there's smoke there's fire" should really be applied to all these problems. Some cases yes, but most no. Even if there're multiple problems for one model, you'd still have to have really bad luck to get them all. And these forums don't reflect the real situation most of the time.
 
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Howard2k

macrumors 68030
Mar 10, 2016
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Good luck man, I hope you get a good one. On paper the new 13" quad core looks awesome.
 

BigMcGuire

Contributor
Jan 10, 2012
4,700
5,736
California
I think you'll find that in most instances. It's like when you read the horror stories of product or customer service on social media, and it's a matter of newsworthiness. Kind of like the idea that dog bites man is not a story, but man bites dog is.

Apple products that work aren't a story, because they're supposed to and the vast majority of the time do. When they don't (or bend, or whatever), you get a (loud) vocal minority, particularly in a forum like this, because the users are so knowledgeable and expect perfection.

Enjoy your new laptop!
Have to agree. My brand new Dell XPS 15 is plagued with problems and forums show I'm not the only one. But no one complains about it like they do Apple laptops. My little brother has an XPS 13 as well and he has tons of problems too.

My 2017 MBP is by far the most reliable piece of technology I've ever had. Same for my wife. OK... my MBA 2015 was flawless (same for my wife's 2015 MBA) so ... it's the second most reliable piece of technology ... at least for the next 3 years.
 
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PeterJP

macrumors 6502
Feb 2, 2012
424
243
Leuven, Belgium
The general "woooooh - you're embarking on quite an adventure" feeling in this thread is hilarious compared to the IBM statistic over huge numbers of laptops that Apple is the most reliable. Anecdotal fear vs statistical solidity. A typical fake news scenario.

Not saying there aren't any issues. Also not saying that the issues aren't serious: they're the really annoying kind that show up only with time, which is treacherous. Just saying that chances are really small you'll get any of them, also because you've eliminated the Vega issues. Buying an Apple is as safe as it ever was. Until you get a lemon, then the process is harder than it could've been because the faults are harder to prove. And that's where this forum and all its info comer in really handy.
 
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Ploki

macrumors 68040
Jan 21, 2008
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December 17th, 2017 is when the iMac Pro debuted with the T2 chip. January 2019 the issue still does not appear to be completely resolved, though the thread might indicate that they are making headway since the post rate has slowed.
I had some odd audio dropouts on the mini today (first time), on 10.14.2; i tried to replicate them with 10.14.3 and couldn't. Wonder if they fixed some things.
 

jerryk

macrumors 603
Nov 3, 2011
5,007
2,476
SF Bay Area
December 17th, 2017 is when the iMac Pro debuted with the T2 chip. January 2019 the issue still does not appear to be completely resolved, though the thread might indicate that they are making headway since the post rate has slowed.
And when you go back through that thread you find the forum echo effect in full force. Also, a lot of people that do audio and video recording and editing, like me, have never had the issue.
 

SDColorado

Contributor
Nov 6, 2011
4,274
4,221
Highlands Ranch, CO
I had some odd audio dropouts on the mini today (first time), on 10.14.2; i tried to replicate them with 10.14.3 and couldn't. Wonder if they fixed some things.
Latest version of Mojave dropped yesterday and I know Rumor Consumer started a new poll. I believe his poll numbers are showing a decline of incidents since he began them. I don’t participate, because I have had so many Units now what does “I had them before but don’t have them now” even mean when I had them in unit #1 but the current unit has never had them :)

Hopefully the latest version also addresses those audio dropouts